Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-24-2017, 10:01 PM   #241
Yoyodyne
Senior Member
 
Yoyodyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lancaster PA
Posts: 301
Default Re: New block

If they are the holes I think they are, they are the water inlets for 32-36 pump in head engines, and line up with the motor mounts for 32-36. Odd that they would still be there on engines you can't put pump heads on, but maybe they were found handy for removing core sand as Russ said.
Yoyodyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2017, 10:19 PM   #242
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 7,084
Default Re: New block

Henry
You make the point for me. If I can get 125 HP from a 268 ci stock engine. Then a built 276 might make 200. It all depends on the new blocks ports. However, If you can get a good reliable 125 from the engine in it's stock 268 displacement. then you open up a very large customer base. Then to racers would get thete block.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-25-2017, 06:00 AM   #243
Tod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Salem, Ohio
Posts: 901
Default Re: New block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ/40 View Post
Tod, I think they are there for cleaning the casting sand from the block. They serve no other purpose. Many have been fooled by them.
That's a possibility, if it is not to move water.

Tod
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2017, 07:15 AM   #244
Yoyodyne
Senior Member
 
Yoyodyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lancaster PA
Posts: 301
Default Re: New block

Pre '37 motor mounts

Yoyodyne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2017, 09:55 AM   #245
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 10,395
Default Re: New block

I'm thinking they holes are for hot water heater return. Most of the 8BA series had the return on the right side pump. Left side had the boss but was left unmachined.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2017, 05:02 PM   #246
Tod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Salem, Ohio
Posts: 901
Default Re: New block

OK. I've been working on this in my spare time and it is moving along nicely. Unfortunately, I have to work, sleep, and watch a little TV. Not bad for a week of messing around.



At this stage I can at least formulate a molding strategy while I proceed to finish the model. I have to finish the external features that are still underway and get to the internals. It would be nice to have a casting in a few months.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20170525_170958.jpg (104.9 KB, 122 views)
File Type: jpg 20170525_171015.jpg (123.7 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg 20170525_171031.jpg (104.1 KB, 121 views)
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2017, 07:59 PM   #247
corvette8n
Senior Member
 
corvette8n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: 36 miles north of Albany NY
Posts: 1,758
Default Re: New block

Hey Tod don't burn yourself out, but wow great job.
corvette8n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 06:04 AM   #248
Tod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Salem, Ohio
Posts: 901
Default Re: New block

Quote:
Originally Posted by corvette8n View Post
Hey Tod don't burn yourself out, but wow great job.
Thanks. I will rest as much as I need to. My health doesn't allow me to over-do it these days. Since surviving a massive stroke in 2005 that took a third of the right side of my brain (and a small part of the left side) I am not able to do what I used to do. The seizure meds I have to take now, because of the stroke, have drastically reduced my energy level. I just do what I can as I can now.

Tod
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 12:10 PM   #249
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 10,395
Default Re: New block

If you have a casting in only a few months, you are truly dedicated to the task. Those who have started this in the last 10 or 15 years or so either never made it to the foundry or it took them years to get there. I suspect they didn't have much previous experience with this type of manufacturing process. It will really be something to see your prototype.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 03:31 PM   #250
Tod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Salem, Ohio
Posts: 901
Default Re: New block

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
If you have a casting in only a few months, you are truly dedicated to the task. Those who have started this in the last 10 or 15 years or so either never made it to the foundry or it took them years to get there. I suspect they didn't have much previous experience with this type of manufacturing process. It will really be something to see your prototype.
I will be interested to see how many people are really wanting one. Talking on a forum is one thing, buying is another. With the model A it seems few of the 100+ potential buyers from a poll want to step up and actually order one. I can sell plenty of them but there was a lot of talk compared to willing buyers. I guess seeing a running sample means nothing. Some people want to see it in other cars first, I know. And that is okay by me. Both markets are probably decent enough. I, too, am anxious to see the first casting. It is rare that I don't hit what I'm aiming at. I do have to do daily production machining of Snyder parts as well as my own. That takes a huge chunk of my week.

When I first did my own FE project it took me 3 months from the time I started modeling until I had a casting. But I was only working on that. It took me 3 weeks to model a 460 block ready for CNC cutting a pattern for Trickflow. After they made 2 castings, Summit (their parent company) stopped it. Corporate political issues.

A little more progress will be made on the model today and over the weekend, as I feel like it, and have time.

Tod
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 05:10 PM   #251
pooch
Senior Member
 
pooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Coast NSW Australia
Posts: 2,595
Default Re: New block

If someone picks up your block and builds a crate motor available here in OZ. I will buy one immediately.
pooch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 05:34 PM   #252
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 10,395
Default Re: New block

There are at least a half dozen builders just here in the states alone that could or should consider the ease of build of a new block. Shops like H&H, Roadrunner Engineering, and even Motor City Flatheads, to name a few, could be contenders even though Motor City is wrapped up with their own project that's been setting on the back burner for a long while. Even the guys that use the French SUMB engines might consider a new 8BA type when they need one. I know I'm interested in a new one. It would make a hell of an AV8 roadster conversion motor and it would be an easy build just having a new block alone. I've seen several flat head friendly machine shops around San Antonio come and go over the years so with new block at least 75% of that problem is gone out the door.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2017, 06:37 PM   #253
Fordors
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orland Park,IL
Posts: 1,335
Default Re: New block

I'm pretty sure that the Motor City Flathead project is off the table. Shadow Rods took control of that AFAIK, and their website hasn't been updated in a long time. Are they still around?
__________________
My school colors are black and blue, I attended the School of Hard Knocks where I received a Masters Degree in Chronic Mopery.
Fordors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 12:03 AM   #254
SteveScott
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1
Default Re: New block

A GREAT IDEA! I have read through a lot of this and I am amazed how off center some of the responses have been but I hope a lot of it has been helpful for you. The info requested was for an 8BA block, not earlier blocks, master cyc's, sanctioning by so and so, changes for this reason or the another that would not improve the original 8BA block but for some specific purpose. I'm the poor old slup that just wants to keep the old '49 to '53's on the road and enjoy them. I have an ever increasingly hard time finding a good block.
A full flow or pressure oil system would be a great improvement. Improvements to keep them running cooler. Probably related, keep the blocks from cracking. I would like the improvements made so as many as possible of the original parts could be used.
It looks like you have the knowledge and ability to do this . I want to wish you success in this project and your other projects.
Scott
SteveScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 08:01 AM   #255
Henry Floored
Senior Member
 
Henry Floored's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 547
Default Re: New block

I agree Scott, for the most part a standard 8BA can be outfitted to repower anything all the way back to the '32's.

We must keep this in perspective. A new block until recently was considered an impossible dream.

Tod there were long discussions about the feasibility and possibility of a new block recently on this forum. Before your arrival here many were skeptical of the chances of this ever getting done. To tell you the truth I am completely ignorant of the skill sets and resources needed to do a project like this.

Upon hearing the phrase "it can't be done" my own secret plan was to build a model of the best 8BA I could in my little backyard shop. The changes I wanted to make were mostly in the intake and exhaust porting and I also wanted to "play" with intake valve angles and sizing.

I thought I might be able to do this by simply machining away the areas marked for improvement then rebuilding those areas with "bondo" and go in and reshape the porting and change the valve position by hand.

I thought if a person took an actual block and simply changed only the areas of improvement that a skilled person like yourself could digitize or reverse engineer this prototype.

Thinking that having something in 3D that one could photograph and demonstrate the benefits of, might be a catalyst to spark interest in a new engine block. It was in my mind to take the idea as far as I could then find an engine master, like yourself, to actually get it done for real.

Of course this engine block is quietly sleeping on a stand in my little shop awaiting me for time and the procurement of my dream of owning my own vertical milling machine.

The engine block of my dreams exists but only in my head at the moment. I feel like you can and will actually bring it to light.

The Flathead community (and I think I can speak for all of us) would love the option of a new engine.

Please if there is anything I or anyone here can do to help you don't hesitate to ask. I think this is great!
Henry Floored is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2017, 09:25 AM   #256
G.M.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida and Penna.
Posts: 4,195
Default Re: New block

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
I remember seeing one example of a "whole pan rail" girdle. It's been a while so I can't remember the details of whether it incorporated the caps or if it just surrounded them and augmented structure there. A special pan had to be fabricated but it looked like it was going to beef things up pretty well.

Just about every avenue has been explored before with these engines. They are truly an Icon in the histories of automotive development and racing technology.
The 32/33 pan rail is different at the rear on the drivers side. Using
a latter pan on the 32 block leaves a gap about 1/2" wide and 1 1/2"
long in that corner. The early block has no provision for the vent on
the pan rail near the front. There are several different pan gaskets
available. G.M.
__________________
www.fordcollector.com
G.M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 09:50 AM   #257
Henry Floored
Senior Member
 
Henry Floored's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 547
Default Re: New block

I am bumping this thread because it promises to be one of the most important and exciting developments in the Flathead V8 world for many years.

Anyone have anything more to add?
Henry Floored is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 10:41 AM   #258
Tod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Salem, Ohio
Posts: 901
Default Re: New block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Floored View Post
I am bumping this thread because it promises to be one of the most important and exciting developments in the Flathead V8 world for many years.

Anyone have anything more to add?
I typed up some stuff yesterday but yet again the site timed out and it all went away. I will do it again soon. I am working on my port redesign right now. I have to figure out how to make all the deck features work with the water jacket and port design. I may only be able to thicken the deck in some areas. It will work itself out as I move along.

Tod
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 11:00 AM   #259
Henry Floored
Senior Member
 
Henry Floored's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 547
Default Re: New block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I typed up some stuff yesterday but yet again the site timed out and it all went away. I will do it again soon. I am working on my port redesign right now. I have to figure out how to make all the deck features work with the water jacket and port design. I may only be able to thicken the deck in some areas. It will work itself out as I move along.

Tod
Thanks for the update Tod! Thanks for all you do.
Henry Floored is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2017, 11:18 AM   #260
Henry Floored
Senior Member
 
Henry Floored's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 547
Default Re: New block

Another thought that doesn't have anything to do with this project technically but what would be a possible way to market and service this block?

Tod do you have plans afoot on this subject? Will you be assigning specific vendors or do you have the ability to do that inhouse?

From past experience having knowledgeable key people to handle any issues that might arise at with the consumers can really make a difference.

It might even be something that FoMoCo themselves would like to add to their performance parts department. In fact the having a Ford part number might even help the psychology of those desirous of using genuine Ford parts in their cars. (Even though a million guys seem to have no problem putting Gm power in their Fords) lol
Henry Floored is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:24 PM.