The Ford Barn

Lawrie · 11-14-2017, 04:46 AM

I,m replacing the front eng mounts on the 33,and have a set of the nice new B/drake ones,correct ones for the early cars,
but find that they wont fit nicely in the chassis cross member, the supplied steel cup washer that the rubber mount sits in will not seat in the cross member,it seems like it needs to have a flat cut on the washer to clear the radius on the front of the cross member,and will not sit into the reccess in the cross member, my cross member has the recess like the steel cup washer and if I leave the cup washer out the rubber fits in nice.
In my 28-35 parts book it shows no steel cup washer under the rubber., the rubber looks like it goes straight onto the chassis cross member
Would this be right.
Lawrie

DavidG · 11-14-2017, 05:36 AM

The cup washer wasn't used on '33-'34s (or '32s except some early versions with flat front cross members and large holes in those cross members). They were once again used starting with the '35s.

For your purposes you can discard them. What Bob Drake supplies includes the washer presumably so that his kit has broader application and simplifies his inventory. I suspect that you are not the first to wonder what to do with those overgrown washers.

petehoovie · 11-14-2017, 02:05 PM

When I replaced the front mounts on my '34 several years back, I did use the cup washers and didn't notice any problem with fit that I can recall. After reading David's response above, I'm wondering if I should remove them....

Also, I notice that the mounts I installed don't have the steel band around the rubber like the Drake mount pictured below....

Lawrie · 11-14-2017, 03:43 PM

David, thanks, that makes me feel beter,my cross member is NOT flat and has the same profile as the cup washer,
I will get on with fitting the other side today.
Lawrie

DavidG · 11-14-2017, 05:05 PM

pete,

The steel band is as original and without it the insulator will start to flatten as the weight of the engine slowly but surely overcomes the molecular memory of the rubber.

Also by using the big washers on a '34 you have increased the height of the front of the engine which can cause carburetor problems as the engine will no longer be at its design angle relative to the horizontal. (Admittedly not by much and how many of these old cars are running around with the design level of front spring height; not that many I'd guess.)

Lawrie · 11-14-2017, 05:16 PM

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David, my 33 was, as it had the washers under on the old mounts,it had a flat cut on the outer edge of the washer to fit up against the cross member raised part,and it did NOT fit well as it sat on top of the reccess not down in it so there was a big gap under.
My new mounts have the steel ring in them.(thanks Keith)
Thanks for the great info.
Lawrie

petehoovie · 11-14-2017, 05:22 PM

David,

Yeah, given the lack of specific instructions with respect to the model/year, I suspect there are many '33/'34 owners who have made the same mistake as I did. I don't think that it's worth the effort to remove the cup washer or to replace the mounts I have though - I'll just keep a close eye on it. What do you think?....

DavidG · 11-14-2017, 05:56 PM

Let me be the first to admit that it is big, no fun job on a car that's all together.

Kpar · 11-14-2017, 05:56 PM

Well now I do understand why I had a lot of trouble fitting mine.
Lawrie should I remove the cup & would it help with the vibration ?.
Kpar

Jim in Wisconsin · 11-14-2017, 06:10 PM

Another thing to consider is making sure the engine height matches the crankhole close enough to get the crank in. I had trouble with that on my 33.

Lawrie · 11-14-2017, 06:52 PM

Keith ,what I found under the cup on the 33 was it was full of crud,and also the cup doesn,t fit the recess correctly and only sits on the out edge of the cup.and both the old cups that were on the 33 and the new drake ones needed to have a flat cut on their edge, because the cups wont fit, the edge of the cup hangs up on the edge of the cross member where it rises up for the front spring cavity .
come over and have a look
Lawrie

DavidG · 11-14-2017, 07:56 PM

Kpar,

It could very well be the case as there is nothing to prevent the cup washer from moving from side to side whereas your front cross member with its pressed-in recesses prevents that. Also I have hard time envisioning how you would properly tighten the bolt and still put a cotter pin through the slotted hex nut without over-distorting the rebound insulator beneath the cross member.

34FordFabricator · 11-14-2017, 10:08 PM

Here is what your motor mounts should look like. These are genuine Ford and have the part number as well as the Ford script molded into them. The rubber is formed around metal.
Bill

Lawrie · 11-15-2017, 12:29 AM

Thats what I used.
Lawrie

Kpar · 11-15-2017, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidG

Kpar,

It could very well be the case as there is nothing to prevent the cup washer from moving from side to side whereas your front cross member with its pressed-in recesses prevents that. Also I have hard time envisioning how you would properly tighten the bolt and still put a cotter pin through the slotted hex nut without over-distorting the rebound insulator beneath the cross member.

Yes DavidG I had a tuff time sliding that cup under the top rubber and only just got the split pin in. Next job after the front brakes, is remove the cup.
Kpar

11-14-2017, 04:46 AM	#1
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,212	33 front engine mounts I,m replacing the front eng mounts on the 33,and have a set of the nice new B/drake ones,correct ones for the early cars, but find that they wont fit nicely in the chassis cross member, the supplied steel cup washer that the rubber mount sits in will not seat in the cross member,it seems like it needs to have a flat cut on the washer to clear the radius on the front of the cross member,and will not sit into the reccess in the cross member, my cross member has the recess like the steel cup washer and if I leave the cup washer out the rubber fits in nice. In my 28-35 parts book it shows no steel cup washer under the rubber., the rubber looks like it goes straight onto the chassis cross member Would this be right. Lawrie

11-14-2017, 05:36 AM	#2
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,095	Re: 33 front engine mounts The cup washer wasn't used on '33-'34s (or '32s except some early versions with flat front cross members and large holes in those cross members). They were once again used starting with the '35s. For your purposes you can discard them. What Bob Drake supplies includes the washer presumably so that his kit has broader application and simplifies his inventory. I suspect that you are not the first to wonder what to do with those overgrown washers.

11-14-2017, 02:05 PM	#3
petehoovie Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 8,081	Re: 33 front engine mounts When I replaced the front mounts on my '34 several years back, I did use the cup washers and didn't notice any problem with fit that I can recall. After reading David's response above, I'm wondering if I should remove them.... Also, I notice that the mounts I installed don't have the steel band around the rubber like the Drake mount pictured below.... __________________ The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... *"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"* "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0 Last edited by petehoovie; 11-14-2017 at 02:12 PM.

11-14-2017, 03:43 PM	#4
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,212	Re: 33 front engine mounts David, thanks, that makes me feel beter,my cross member is NOT flat and has the same profile as the cup washer, I will get on with fitting the other side today. Lawrie

11-14-2017, 05:05 PM	#5
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,095	Re: 33 front engine mounts pete, The steel band is as original and without it the insulator will start to flatten as the weight of the engine slowly but surely overcomes the molecular memory of the rubber. Also by using the big washers on a '34 you have increased the height of the front of the engine which can cause carburetor problems as the engine will no longer be at its design angle relative to the horizontal. (Admittedly not by much and how many of these old cars are running around with the design level of front spring height; not that many I'd guess.) Last edited by DavidG; 11-14-2017 at 05:11 PM.

11-14-2017, 05:16 PM	#6
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,212	Re: 33 front engine mounts Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) David, my 33 was, as it had the washers under on the old mounts,it had a flat cut on the outer edge of the washer to fit up against the cross member raised part,and it did NOT fit well as it sat on top of the reccess not down in it so there was a big gap under. My new mounts have the steel ring in them.(thanks Keith) Thanks for the great info. Lawrie

11-14-2017, 05:22 PM	#7
petehoovie Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 8,081	Re: 33 front engine mounts David, Yeah, given the lack of specific instructions with respect to the model/year, I suspect there are many '33/'34 owners who have made the same mistake as I did. I don't think that it's worth the effort to remove the cup washer or to replace the mounts I have though - I'll just keep a close eye on it. What do you think?.... __________________ The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... *"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"* "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0

11-14-2017, 05:56 PM	#8
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,095	Re: 33 front engine mounts Let me be the first to admit that it is big, no fun job on a car that's all together.

11-14-2017, 05:56 PM	#9
Kpar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Gladstone QLD Australia Posts: 324	Re: 33 front engine mounts Well now I do understand why I had a lot of trouble fitting mine. Lawrie should I remove the cup & would it help with the vibration ?. Kpar

11-14-2017, 06:10 PM	#10
Jim in Wisconsin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 247	Re: 33 front engine mounts Another thing to consider is making sure the engine height matches the crankhole close enough to get the crank in. I had trouble with that on my 33.

11-14-2017, 06:52 PM	#11
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,212	Re: 33 front engine mounts Keith ,what I found under the cup on the 33 was it was full of crud,and also the cup doesn,t fit the recess correctly and only sits on the out edge of the cup.and both the old cups that were on the 33 and the new drake ones needed to have a flat cut on their edge, because the cups wont fit, the edge of the cup hangs up on the edge of the cross member where it rises up for the front spring cavity . come over and have a look Lawrie

11-14-2017, 07:56 PM	#12
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,095	Re: 33 front engine mounts Kpar, It could very well be the case as there is nothing to prevent the cup washer from moving from side to side whereas your front cross member with its pressed-in recesses prevents that. Also I have hard time envisioning how you would properly tighten the bolt and still put a cotter pin through the slotted hex nut without over-distorting the rebound insulator beneath the cross member.

11-15-2017, 12:29 AM	#14
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,212	Re: 33 front engine mounts Thats what I used. Lawrie