Ammeter always shows discharge

[DNLs1930]

Hope y'all are staying healthy and have plenty of TP...



Ok so the car always shows a discharge and with the engine off, turning the lights on causes the ammeter to show discharge as expected.


Engine on; no "charge" indication BUT battery does not seems to discharge even after a 50 mile drive.



Pulled off the Generator cover to make a third brush adjustment and get this bad boy cruzin again but found this broken wire and a BAD previous repair.



Is the brush pictured with the screw the "third brush" adjustment?



I will attempt to repair the broken wire and see what the result is then jump on the adjustment... Wish me luck!

[ryanheacox]

Sounds like an easy fix to get it back on the road. That brush in the picture is connected right to the generator case, ground. The third brush is the one barely visible in the picture.

[DNLs1930]

Originally Posted by ryanheacox

Sounds like an easy fix to get it back on the road. That brush in the picture is connected right to the generator case, ground. The third brush is the one barely visible in the picture.

Thanks I tried to edit the post and lost a picture... I will get the wire fixed and will try to repost the picture so I can figure out the third brush location.

[DNLs1930]

Finally figured out I had to make the pictures smaller so I could post them.


Obviously a broken wire and what looks like previous repairs so may need a little more work than just solder.


IF I take off the back plate I will have access to the brushes and wires; are there any issues with taking it off fixing wires, clean and put new grease in? clean/Sand the armature? anything else you all see?


This car is a driver so the charging system has me at odds. I would like to have the lights on all the time but that seems like a bad idea for the longevity of the battery.

[ryanheacox]

I would definitely start by pulling the generator off of the car and putting on the workbench, it'll probably save time in the long run. Disassemble, inspect, clean, lube, put a new terminal on that wire and you should be back in business. I wouldn't sand the commutator, it looks good to me. Maybe clean between the bars with a toothpick but it looks good otherwise.

[DNLs1930]

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Originally Posted by ryanheacox

I would definitely start by pulling the generator off of the car and putting on the workbench, it'll probably save time in the long run. Disassemble, inspect, clean, lube, put a new terminal on that wire and you should be back in business. I wouldn't sand the commutator, it looks good to me. Maybe clean between the bars with a toothpick but it looks good otherwise.

Thanks for the advice and yes I was planning to remove it to prevent an "O my aching back" and a few cuss words ta boot... may be a couple anyway but the fewer the better. Repair update and pics soon.

[DNLs1930]

SOOOOOOO

Reading this post: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279059

The question asked is which wire goes where and I was thinking well there are only two wires; a short one that goes to the panel light from the Ammeter and one that goes to the right side terminal from the armored cable (which I now know goes to the terminal box)



WELL APPARENTLY there should be TWO wires from the terminal box and Les Adrews' book agrees. NOW I need to find where the "MISSING" wire is...



More exploring; YIKES!!

[Bob C]

When you say armored cable are you talking about the one that goes to the distributor?


Bob

[DNLs1930]

Originally Posted by Bob C

When you say armored cable are you talking about the one that goes to the distributor?


Bob

I will have to check but now you say that I'm pretty sure the wire going to the ammeter is not from "inside" the armor cable; but again not sure. I will take pics for reference.

I am sure there is not a second wire going to the ammeter so will be taking it apart tomorrow and try to figure it out.

[DNLs1930]

Removed the Generator this evening and OMG...
SO I checked the Ammeter and yes there are two wires from the junction box going to the ammeter with a third wire going to the panel light so nothing to see there.


The Generator on the other hand is a disaster IMO. Easy to remove and take apart, so fixed the wires and cleaned up the mess inside O BOY!!!

The cutout wires were burnt off on both sides so I fixed them as well; reassembled the generator and while I should have waited for some knowledgeable input form "The Ford Barn" I decided to start the car and see what happened...

SOOOO reconnected the battery and NOTHING started smoking or caught on fire so that's good but there was no increase in amps after the car waS started and RAN WITH the RPM increased.

Pretty sure I need a new GEN and cutout and ammeter just to be sure or kinda thinking about a 6V Pos grnd alternator.

Thoughts on the Pictures and Alt option?


One last item to ask about the Generator case was hitting the metal coolant pipe and looks like it has been for some time so thinking the fan belt is too big or stretched. It looks very new so not thinking it has stretched. Obviously this is a bad thing waiting to happen but wondering if this is a common thing to find?



As always:THANKS IN ADVANCE

[dumb person]

Could be that the water pipe needs to be moved (I have done that once, installed it, but it needed to be rotated a few degrees)

[chap52]

May sound like a silly question but, Is the battery hooked up positive or negative ground? When I bought my A the battery was replaced with a new one that the seller had installed backwards. Made it hard to start (had to jump it), only ran at high RPM's and didn't charge properly, showing a discharge on the ammeter all the time... Chap

[ryanheacox]

Originally Posted by DNLs1930

Removed the Generator this evening and OMG...
SO I checked the Ammeter and yes there are two wires from the junction box going to the ammeter with a third wire going to the panel light so nothing to see there.


The Generator on the other hand is a disaster IMO. Easy to remove and take apart, so fixed the wires and cleaned up the mess inside O BOY!!!

The cutout wires were burnt off on both sides so I fixed them as well; reassembled the generator and while I should have waited for some knowledgeable input form "The Ford Barn" I decided to start the car and see what happened...

SOOOO reconnected the battery and NOTHING started smoking or caught on fire so that's good but there was no increase in amps after the car waS started and RAN WITH the RPM increased.

Pretty sure I need a new GEN and cutout and ammeter just to be sure or kinda thinking about a 6V Pos grnd alternator.

Thoughts on the Pictures and Alt option?


One last item to ask about the Generator case was hitting the metal coolant pipe and looks like it has been for some time so thinking the fan belt is too big or stretched. It looks very new so not thinking it has stretched. Obviously this is a bad thing waiting to happen but wondering if this is a common thing to find?



As always:THANKS IN ADVANCE

Yeah that's seen some better days. I'm now wondering why you burned up a cutout wire as well. Do you have an extra ground running to the transmission or engine? Looks like things got hot in there, could have had a voltage spike and burned up.

[Badpuppy]

I think the generator isn't working at all, maybe open cutout. A good battery could last a 50-mile trip, but would need a charge right away.

The radiator tube may be installed backwards, or may be the wrong one (there were several versions). Or maybe just rotating will provide clearance, as dumb person says.

An alternator solves several problems, present and future, unless you're building a points car. The GM 10Si replacements are common as nails, so are well supported.

[katy]

The armature doesn't look too bad but would need to be tested. The field windings are kaput.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

I do not have personal experience, repeating what I have read/heard. Reproduction ammeters are iffy at best, best is to find a used original if available.

[DNLs1930]

Originally Posted by chap52

May sound like a silly question but, Is the battery hooked up positive or negative ground? When I bought my A the battery was replaced with a new one that the seller had installed backwards. Made it hard to start (had to jump it), only ran at high RPM's and didn't charge properly, showing a discharge on the ammeter all the time... Chap

The car is Positive ground and the battery is installed correctly. The car runs and drives very well just no charge indication on the ammeter. I thought the ammeter was bad but found the broken wire in the generator and then after disassembly found the burnt cutout relay wires and the overall bad condition of the interior of the gen.

[Patrick L.]

Once the generator is back together, if its fed power it should motor. If it motors then 99% of the time it'll charge. But, then there is the cut-out. It'll also probably need to be polarized.

[DNLs1930]

Well in order to keep the car on the road and allow me time to learn about and rebuild the original generator I will be installing a 6V positive grnd alternator.



Need a little more help/input on quality of parts for both the alternator and rebuild kit. Seems there are a number of choices for each so looking for experienced advice.
MANY THANKS!!!

[chap52]

I got one from NuRex. They also have the cut-out, both stock and diode. Complete alternator package and they stand behind their products... Chap

https://www.nurex.com/search?q=alternator