The Ford Barn

Woodie1 · 09-27-2018, 02:32 PM

I have a car that I tried to start today & it wouldn't turn over. I assumed the battery was dead as there was no cranking sounds. It was rebuilt last year & I have less than 3000 miles on it. I had it in the yard yesterday while I worked in the garage. I drove it back in & today she's locked up. It will only go in reverse & 1st gear. I can't get the transmission into 2nd or 3rd gear. I wouldn't think it would be starter bolts as it's been back on the road for a year. The oil level is where it should be. I've removed all the spark plugs & stood on the crank & it won't budge. What are your thoughts?

1930artdeco · 09-27-2018, 02:40 PM

Have you pulled the starter out? It may be that the starter spring broke and locked the ring gear up.

Mike

Marshall V. Daut · 09-27-2018, 02:50 PM

Ignition key off, put the transmission into reverse, which is one of the two gears you can shift into at the moment. With a buddy to help, rock the car back and forth from the front of the vehicle. You will probably hear a metallic "Clunk!" as the starter Bendix releases from the flywheel teeth. It's very common after 90 years of starting for the Bendix to jam against the flywheel teeth. Teeth get chuggered up and/or the starter shaft gets bent from people starting the engine without retarding the timing, which causes the engine to kick back against the starter shaft. I suspect that's what's happened with you.
Normally this procedure is done in third gear because the car is easier to rock and gets some momentum, but it can be done in reverse. It's just more difficult because of the gear reduction in reverse.
Marshall

Woodie1 · 09-27-2018, 02:54 PM

Update, I had the wife sit in the car & put pressure on the gear shift lever to try to get into 3rd gear. I rocked the car & heard a metallic pop. I suspect it may have been the bendix spring. Wondering now if I should pull the starter & put a new spring on. At least it starts again. Just don't want this on the road. Thanks for the tips.

Marshall V. Daut · 09-27-2018, 03:27 PM

Hurray! Success - and at no cost!
This happens every once in a while to the best of us. Now that you know what to do if this should happen again, I'd say leave well enough alone for now. If it happens again soon, then after you've freed the starter drive, pull the starter itself and remove the Bendix drive so that only the bare starter shaft is exposed. Lay the starter on a flat surface, such as your garage floor or work bench. Hook the starter up to a 6 volt battery via jumper cables. Connect the red clamp (+) to the starter's mounting flange. Holding the starter firmly, touch black clamp (-) against the large brass terminal on top of the starter. The shaft should spin at high revolutions. Watch the starter shaft's spinning action. It should be straight and appear smooth. If it wobbles or appears blurry, it is bent. If so, that is why the starter is locking against the flywheel teeth. Use a vise and straighten the shaft until it spins clearly.
While the starter is out, examine the flywheel teeth around the full circumference of the flywheel. The Model A engine tends to stop in one of two places, which is where the starter drive will engage the next the time the engine is started. Those two areas of the ring gear get most of the abuse from the starter drive slamming against them. Multiply that by tens of thousands of starts in the last 90 years, unless the ring gear has been replaced somewhere along the line. If the teeth are chewed up in these two areas 180 degrees opposite each other compared to the rest of the ring gear teeth, the ring gear needs to be replaced.
The source of your problem, then, is going to be either a bent starter shaft or chewed up ring gear teeth - or both!
Marshall

Woodie1 · 09-27-2018, 03:34 PM

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Marshall, I replaced the ring gear 45 years ago when we restored the car. A bent shaft could be the problem. I checked the flywheel teeth earlier in the year & they didn't have any burrs or chewed up areas.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 09-27-2018, 05:47 PM

Just sounds like the starter was locked. It "just happens" sometimes, on Model As. Always retard the spark when starting. If it locks, put it in high gear & rock it back & forth, untl you hear a "POP!" THEN IT'LL START!
Bill Stuckagain

Jacksonlll · 09-27-2018, 08:12 PM

To free the stuck starter pinion gear, you must turn the engine backwards. Counter clockwise. Best way it put it in third and push rearward. If really stuck, put car in third, push clutch in. Have someone push you backward then pop the clutch. Works every time.

Brendan · 09-28-2018, 07:34 AM

i have a 36 Ford pickup, the starter gets locked up sometimes.

braol · 09-28-2018, 12:11 PM

This new thread is so very ironic. This JUST happened to me about 3 days ago. I thought maybe my battery needed a recharge or something...so I hook battery up to charger for a few hours, go outside and try to restart...nothing. I can hear a slight "sound" when I push the start button but no action.

Out of curiosity I decided to crank-start and drive around the block just for kicks and I met some resistance when cranking and then the proverbial "pop" sound as what I assume to be the Bendix drive disengaged. Started normally after that. At some point this winter I am going to pull the starter and go through all the inspection steps mentioned in the Mechanics Vol.#1 book. I might even spring for the more heavy-duty Bendix drive advertised on the various restoration part websites. Thoughts???

Woodie1 · 09-28-2018, 12:47 PM

I removed the starter this morning & removed the Bendix. I spun the shaft with the battery charger & the shaft ran true. I put the Bendix back on with a new spring & installed the starter. It started the first try so hopefully this won't happen again, not in my life time anyway.

Kohnke Rebabbitting · 09-29-2018, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodie1

I removed the starter this morning & removed the Bendix. I spun the shaft with the battery charger & the shaft ran true. I put the Bendix back on with a new spring & installed the starter. It started the first try so hopefully this won't happen again, not in my life time anyway.

One of the easiest ways to stick the Bendix, and bend the shaft, is forget to put up the spark leaver, and let it kick back .

Herm.

Kurt in NJ · 09-29-2018, 03:45 PM

I havn't had it happen since I replaced the ring gear, there were 2 places the teeth were worn and blunted, on other cars I have touched the teeth up some with grinder/dremel

flathead1150 · 03-02-2020, 06:46 PM

I have had the same starter hang up a few times, Instead of rocking the car, I just put it in nuetral and get my Engine Crank and turn the Engine and the starter becomes unlocked.

Jacksonlll · 03-02-2020, 08:27 PM

Search YouTube for. Ford model a starter hang up.

Synchro909 · 03-02-2020, 09:32 PM

I also have had it happen. It was a MOST inconvenient time. We were all lined up waiting to drive onto a ferry. UUGGGGHHHH!. I freed it by loosening the starter bolts and giving it a wiggle. I love these technical terms!

DBrer · 03-02-2020, 09:59 PM

Have not had a starter problem, but this is great info just in case.

Jemelton# · 03-03-2020, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBrer

Have not had a starter problem, but this is great info just in case.

I agree, Good to Know just in case!

09-27-2018, 02:40 PM	#2
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,550	Re: Engine locked up Have you pulled the starter out? It may be that the starter spring broke and locked the ring gear up. Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

09-27-2018, 02:50 PM	#3
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,109	Re: Engine locked up Ignition key off, put the transmission into reverse, which is one of the two gears you can shift into at the moment. With a buddy to help, rock the car back and forth from the front of the vehicle. You will probably hear a metallic "Clunk!" as the starter Bendix releases from the flywheel teeth. It's very common after 90 years of starting for the Bendix to jam against the flywheel teeth. Teeth get chuggered up and/or the starter shaft gets bent from people starting the engine without retarding the timing, which causes the engine to kick back against the starter shaft. I suspect that's what's happened with you. Normally this procedure is done in third gear because the car is easier to rock and gets some momentum, but it can be done in reverse. It's just more difficult because of the gear reduction in reverse. Marshall

09-27-2018, 02:54 PM	#4
Woodie1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: W. Mich. Posts: 471	Re: Engine locked up Update, I had the wife sit in the car & put pressure on the gear shift lever to try to get into 3rd gear. I rocked the car & heard a metallic pop. I suspect it may have been the bendix spring. Wondering now if I should pull the starter & put a new spring on. At least it starts again. Just don't want this on the road. Thanks for the tips.

09-27-2018, 03:27 PM	#5
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,109	Re: Engine locked up Hurray! Success - and at no cost! This happens every once in a while to the best of us. Now that you know what to do if this should happen again, I'd say leave well enough alone for now. If it happens again soon, then after you've freed the starter drive, pull the starter itself and remove the Bendix drive so that only the bare starter shaft is exposed. Lay the starter on a flat surface, such as your garage floor or work bench. Hook the starter up to a 6 volt battery via jumper cables. Connect the red clamp (+) to the starter's mounting flange. Holding the starter firmly, touch black clamp (-) against the large brass terminal on top of the starter. The shaft should spin at high revolutions. Watch the starter shaft's spinning action. It should be straight and appear smooth. If it wobbles or appears blurry, it is bent. If so, that is why the starter is locking against the flywheel teeth. Use a vise and straighten the shaft until it spins clearly. While the starter is out, examine the flywheel teeth around the full circumference of the flywheel. The Model A engine tends to stop in one of two places, which is where the starter drive will engage the next the time the engine is started. Those two areas of the ring gear get most of the abuse from the starter drive slamming against them. Multiply that by tens of thousands of starts in the last 90 years, unless the ring gear has been replaced somewhere along the line. If the teeth are chewed up in these two areas 180 degrees opposite each other compared to the rest of the ring gear teeth, the ring gear needs to be replaced. The source of your problem, then, is going to be either a bent starter shaft or chewed up ring gear teeth - or both! Marshall Last edited by Marshall V. Daut; 09-27-2018 at 07:34 PM.

09-27-2018, 03:34 PM	#6
Woodie1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: W. Mich. Posts: 471	Re: Engine locked up Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Marshall, I replaced the ring gear 45 years ago when we restored the car. A bent shaft could be the problem. I checked the flywheel teeth earlier in the year & they didn't have any burrs or chewed up areas.

09-27-2018, 02:32 PM	#1
Woodie1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: W. Mich. Posts: 471	Engine locked up I have a car that I tried to start today & it wouldn't turn over. I assumed the battery was dead as there was no cranking sounds. It was rebuilt last year & I have less than 3000 miles on it. I had it in the yard yesterday while I worked in the garage. I drove it back in & today she's locked up. It will only go in reverse & 1st gear. I can't get the transmission into 2nd or 3rd gear. I wouldn't think it would be starter bolts as it's been back on the road for a year. The oil level is where it should be. I've removed all the spark plugs & stood on the crank & it won't budge. What are your thoughts?

09-27-2018, 05:47 PM	#7
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Engine locked up Just sounds like the starter was locked. It "just happens" sometimes, on Model As. Always retard the spark when starting. If it locks, put it in high gear & rock it back & forth, untl you hear a "POP!" THEN IT'LL START! Bill Stuckagain __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

09-27-2018, 08:12 PM	#8
Jacksonlll Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC Posts: 1,686	Re: Engine locked up To free the stuck starter pinion gear, you must turn the engine backwards. Counter clockwise. Best way it put it in third and push rearward. If really stuck, put car in third, push clutch in. Have someone push you backward then pop the clutch. Works every time.

09-28-2018, 07:34 AM	#9
Brendan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: At my kitchen table in Santa Rosa, Ca Posts: 2,903	Re: Engine locked up i have a 36 Ford pickup, the starter gets locked up sometimes. __________________ If it would have been a snake it would have bit ya! i can't spell my way out of a paper bag!

09-28-2018, 12:11 PM	#10
braol Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Endeavor, WI Posts: 119	Re: Engine locked up This new thread is so very ironic. This JUST happened to me about 3 days ago. I thought maybe my battery needed a recharge or something...so I hook battery up to charger for a few hours, go outside and try to restart...nothing. I can hear a slight "sound" when I push the start button but no action. Out of curiosity I decided to crank-start and drive around the block just for kicks and I met some resistance when cranking and then the proverbial "pop" sound as what I assume to be the Bendix drive disengaged. Started normally after that. At some point this winter I am going to pull the starter and go through all the inspection steps mentioned in the Mechanics Vol.#1 book. I might even spring for the more heavy-duty Bendix drive advertised on the various restoration part websites. Thoughts??? __________________ "I have not yet begun to defile myself." -Doc Holliday '31 Tudor, '69 F100, '66 Mustang, '11 Ford Flex

09-28-2018, 12:47 PM	#11
Woodie1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: W. Mich. Posts: 471	Re: Engine locked up I removed the starter this morning & removed the Bendix. I spun the shaft with the battery charger & the shaft ran true. I put the Bendix back on with a new spring & installed the starter. It started the first try so hopefully this won't happen again, not in my life time anyway.

09-29-2018, 03:45 PM	#13
Kurt in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: on the Littlefield Posts: 6,156	Re: Engine locked up I havn't had it happen since I replaced the ring gear, there were 2 places the teeth were worn and blunted, on other cars I have touched the teeth up some with grinder/dremel

03-02-2020, 06:46 PM	#14
flathead1150 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Shelton Posts: 24	Re: Engine locked up I have had the same starter hang up a few times, Instead of rocking the car, I just put it in nuetral and get my Engine Crank and turn the Engine and the starter becomes unlocked.

03-02-2020, 08:27 PM	#15
Jacksonlll Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Michigan-- Member of Oakleaf of MARC Posts: 1,686	Re: Engine locked up Search YouTube for. Ford model a starter hang up.

03-02-2020, 09:32 PM	#16
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Engine locked up I also have had it happen. It was a MOST inconvenient time. We were all lined up waiting to drive onto a ferry. UUGGGGHHHH!. I freed it by loosening the starter bolts and giving it a wiggle. I love these technical terms! __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

03-02-2020, 09:59 PM	#17
DBrer Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Washington Posts: 175	Re: Engine locked up Have not had a starter problem, but this is great info just in case.