Flip up radiator cap.

[Skeezixx]

Hi, I'm new to this forum and I have a newbie question.

Back in the 60s I had a 31 Tudor sedan and let it get away from me.

Years later I found I missed it so today I went to check out a 30 Tudor which is owned by a widow ( in a garage for 30 years). Upon inspection, I was embarrassed to find I did not know how to operate the flip top radiator cap with a motor meter installed (mine had a stock cap). I'd like to poke my nose in there and see if there is still any water left.

What's the trick to opening them?

Also, the gas shutoff valve inside the car is stuck in the horizontal position (off I presume) so my attempts to start it with a battery charger were useless.

I am to return later this week to "get it running" with a new battery and some fresh gas.

Any advice on steps to revive an A which has been sitting this long would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ken

[Gary WA]

Turn counter clockwise should open, gas valve horiz. is off ,12/6 is on. good luck.

[john charlton]

AAAARGGGH !!! DONT TRY TO START IT !!!. You will most likely do very very nasty things to the engine.Over thirty years all the nasty corrosive gloop will have settled out in the bottom of the oil pan just where the oil pump pickup is. I know when you check the dipstick it will look golden and clear but if the pan was made of plexiglass and you could see what was in the pan lower down you would be horrified.Over many years I have cleaned out many engines from moribund cars and not one was clean enough internally to run.The valve chest is a haven for condensation ,rust on the valve springs etc etc and other gloop, run the motor and all that goes down the main bearing oil supply tubes. Clean out the motor top to bottom before any attempt to start it.Trust me. You often read articles "It stood for years and it fired right up after we towed it around the block" Further on we read "had the motor rebuilt by so and so" etc etc.The motor might have many miles left in it without an expensive rebuild.

John in hot humid evening England.

[Keith True]

There are a lot of things to do before even attempting to turn it over.I have fixed two cars that the owners stuck in a new battery then started cranking,they both had stuck distributers and broke the drives.Pull the plugs,and crank it easy by hand.If it doesn't turn easily,squirt some of your favorite weasel pee into the plug holes and try again.If it fetches up or develops resistance stop.Start looking for things stuck,dist,starter(locks up when trying to start with low voltage)water pump,generator,valve,etc.If you try to spin that engine with a valve stuck tightly closed you can create a disaster.The carb needs to be taken apart,cleaned and freed at the very least.If you just try to dump gas in and start it you could have a pretty good fire started.30 years is a long time,you NEED to do these things or you could destroy a perfectly good engine that just had a stuck dist.or valve.You will have to follow through the electrical,checking for juice at all needed connections,and make sure you have spark to the plugs before attempting to start it.It is just a waste of battery and starter life to crank away without checking first.You need to drop the oil,the old stuff will look golden on the stick but it is because the black stuff has settled out in the bottom.Check the trans,you don't want to burn up a good trans at an idle because the oil leaked out of it in the last 30 years.You may or may not get away without cleaning the tank.I have found most of them dry after being stored indoors.If you have varnish,you have to get that out.That really is a minimum of what needs to be done,a lot of guys would insist on a lot more.And,VERY important,when you do crank it over with the starter,use a fresh battery.A junky old dead battery and a battery charger is a disaster waiting to happen.If you are lucky you will burn up a few wires,and maybe the starter.I always pull the starter and go through it first,most have all kinds of mung binding them up after sitting.The radiator cap should turn a quarter turn CCW and flip back.Be careful,I bet both the twist and flip parts are stuck.You can open the petcock on the lower hose to see if it has anything at all left in it.At some point you will have to open the cap and top it off,but take your time not to destroy a good cap just to be in a hurry.You can create $3000.worth of engine work in less than a minute by not looking ahead.

[700rpm]

Good advice from across the pond, John.

Ken, at the very least you should drain the pan and put some fresh oil in it. Check the old oil carefully for metal and other weird stuff, particularly pieces of babbit. If it looks reasonable, take out the spark plugs and pour a couple tablespoons of oil down into each cylinder. Take out the distributor and pour some oil in there too. Then turn the engine by hand with the crank to see how it feels. If it turns fairly easily, crank it a few times with the starter and check for compression. Listen for strange sounds. If that's all good, put it back together and crank the engine (with key OFF) some more to get oil splashed and distributed around the upper and lower end. Listen again for strange sounds.

But really, before you do any of this, you should decide whether the car is for you, and if it is, buy it and THEN do all those checks. Not to be too harsh here, but if you can't get the radiator cap open and don't know which way the gas shutoff reads, you obviously don't know much about Model A's and you shouldn't presume to work on one that isn't yours. It doesn't seem right to me to be messing with somebody else's car, especially when there is the possibility that you could do some damage and leave the lady with a car worse off than she started with.

[Skeezixx]

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I suppose I didn't make myself clear.

While the car has been sitting in the garage for over thirty years the previous owner has only been dead for five years. While he didn't use the car much deferring to others in his collection (it was a gift for his wife who learned to drive in an A), he did service it and run it regularly.

The battery, while not fresh, did have enough juice left in it to blow the horn feebly and her son had already tried to start it before I had arrived.

I deduced that since I could not turn the lever on the gas shutoff that the previous owner had shut it off the last time he ran it then perished without leaving starting instructions to his family.

As far as the radiator cap is concerned, as I had stated, I had a model A some years ago with a regular cap. Before trying to force the cap off thus causing damage, I decided to inquire of this august group of experts the proper method.

I intend to:
free the shutoff valve (remove and soak it in a solvent)
drain the old gas from the tank and replace with fresh.
change the oil
put in a fresh battery
Inspect and lube dist.
hand crank it a few times with the plugs out.
Check Compression (whats a good reading?)
Install new plugs (gapped to .035)?
set the spark and throttle
Pull the choke
Pay the lady
Drive it the two miles distance to my house
Jump up and down.

If there's anything else I need to do please advise.

Thanks,

Ken

[1931 flamingo]

If fuel shut off is frozen in the off position, how are you going to drain the tank?
Paul in CT

[Keith True]

Sounds like you are on the right track.From your first post it sounded as if you were going to throw a battery and some gas in it and crank away.Compression,if it blasts your thumb off the plug hole when cranking over with the starter,it will be enough to start.Make sure you have a good blue spark,steady,not intermittent,at the plugs before putting the plugs back in.Much easier to do it with the battery still full instead of chasing it down after the battery is half run down from trying to start it.I still would pull the carb apart,if it has only been 5 years,the varnish could be either hard or still gummy.If the shutoff valve is sticky,you can bet there is trouble downstream too.With clean gas in the tank,and the line off the carb,turn on the gas and watch it flow out of the line.Let it run for a couple of minutes.You need a good steady stream with no slowing down or surging.If it is 5 year old gas it may have formed a glaze on the screen in the end of the carb.I don't know what component it is in the gas,but in the last few years I have been finding a lot of screens plugged with something that looks like the tape out of an 8 track.Smooth,brown and shiny.I just took what I thought was a plastic standpipe out of a Ford tractor tank.Turns out it was a brass finger screen,covered perfectly with this brown cellophane-type of substance.I don't know how it would affect an A engine,but I worked on an early 60's Ford dump truck a while back.It had sat since 2004.The owners had drained the old gas out,but had not done anything about the varnish in the tank.They reasoned the fresh gas would melt the goop down and pass through with use.After a couple of hours of running here at my garage a valve bound up and bent a pushrod.I fixed it,and then it bent another,then another,until I wised up and took out the tank.I probably didn't have to,as all the varnish seemed to be melted.I changed the gas again,blew out the fuel lines,pump and carb,and has been fine now for a year.

[Skeezixx]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

If fuel shut off is frozen in the off position, how are you going to drain the tank?
Paul in CT

I figured I would remove the stuck cutoff valve and drain the tank into a bucket inside the car. It's almost empty anyhow. Then I'll soak the valve in mineral spirits until it starts to cooperate again then replace it and the line.

[James Rogers]

To open the radiator cap you would turn just the bird or motometer to the right and lean it back.

[Skeezixx]

I tried turning just the motormeter and nothing. it won't budge. I tried turning the cap itself....Stuck like glue.

Meanwhile, I did remove the gas shutoff. It was stuck very solidly. I did manage to get it free with carb cleaner and WD 40. Now it works fine.

However, when I poured about 1 gallon of fresh gas in the tank and turned the valve on it poured out of the carb so I tapped the float chamber gently with a small hammer and it stopped leaking.

I drained the old oil out which, while black as midnight in Nairobi, didn't smell burned nor did it contain any particles of metal that I could discern.

I installed a new battery.

I replaced the oil and tested the spark.
No fire!
So I bought a coil, condenser, a set of plugs and had to order the points.

Since I can't remove the radiator cap the only way I can check to see if there is anything in the radiator would be to open the petcock. But I can't refill it since the radiator cap is stuck. I suppose I could refill it using the upper radiator hose for the present but I still want to get the cap off. Maybe I'm being too gentle with it.

I hate to resort to a channel locks to remove the cap and risk removing the radiator neck with it but it has to come off. I'm thinking the gasket dried up over the years and is holding it on.

They told me the car had been run within the last five years but that cannot be the case. The gas smelled old. and everything seems "stuck".
The engine does turn freely.

[Bruce]

Once I had a repro quail on our pickup. It "sealed" with a 1/2 twist that turned little dogs in rampy slots. In fact, it did not seal. I fixed that problem by deep sixing the flat gasket and getting an "O"-ring. I remember buying an assortment of 'em from Home Depot.
(That should let you know where this is going).
I dropped one in the groove and twisted the quail cap down. Presto! It worked like a charm.
Then I tried to untwist it. I'd chosen a pretty meaty "O"-ring, which provided a fair amount of resistance to my effort to open the cap. So I applied a tad more torque.
(I weigh about an eighth of a ton, so I can "hand-tighten" something fierce. My ability to "unhand-tighten is substantial, too).
The quail snapped right off the cap.
It was probably a good thing, because watching that quail floating out in front of our little truck was distracting to the point of being a (personal) safety hazard.
This confession is to remind you that there might be a mighty gasket under that cap ... or a Home Depot "O"-ring. Try shooting some WD40 up in there and then do the lefty-loosy thing using your 3/8" drive wrist. If you break off the pretty part ... it may make it easier to pay attention to the road in front of you!!

[TK in LA]

Check the back of the cap for a set screw. That's what keeps the whole cap from turning when you turn the motor meter section.
Good Luck!!
Tom

[Capt Quahog]

Wow! And I thought that I was the only one. Acquired a 1931 Ford this past fall and had forgotten many things that long ago were instinctive.

Bought my first Model A Ford at age 15 back in 1962 for the whopping sum of $125 cash. It was a rust free, complete, running and breathing 1931 Tudor sedan. After that, over the years there was another half-dozen Model A Ford cars as well as pre-WW2 V8 flathead cruisers. Seemed then to always have a least a couple of old Ford cars on hand that were driven just about every day. It was a regular thing in the 1960s and 70s to drive a stock Model A Ford car from Boston, Massachusetts to Portland, Maine and throughout New England. All those cars were quite reliable. On the occasion when one of them would conk out and stopped running, it was a broken rotor or the points had rattled themselves closed.

Then there was a 35-year hiatus period without any antique cars. About three months ago, I purchased an old amateurish "restoration" Tudor sedan from a widow in northern New Jersey. It is a late (October) 1931 with indented firewall and side-bowl carb. This car appears to have been mechanically rebuilt by somebody who knew what they were doing. This Model A even has a complete set of new looking functioning shock-absorbers. The body however has some sort of crappy paint job that's flaking off exposing unprimed bare metal beneath. Looks as if a drugged out monkey used 99-cent spray paint cans on it. Fenders, which are nice condition as well as the firewall having original data plate are in what looks to be original shiny black paint finish. During the interceding decades, I had forgotten how much fun it was to drive a Model A Ford. Slapped a plate on the thing and drove the wife to church awhile ago. Even more than ever before, the sweet simplicity of that 31' Ford is so much enjoyed and appreciated. Have Model A Ford fever again and I'm hot on the trail of a sound original 1928 blind back Town Sedan. The many barns here in Pennsylvania keep disgorging all kinds of odd and interesting stuff. I am glad to have found this WEB site.

[pooch]

Originally Posted by TK in LA

Check the back of the cap for a set screw. That's what keeps the whole cap from turning when you turn the motor meter section.
Good Luck!!
Tom

Yup. there is a very small allen key grub screw which jams on the radiator neck threads at the back.

Well it does on a 28/29, so guess similar to 30 to jam on something to keep the quail from turning.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Capt Quahog

Wow! And I thought that I was the only one. Acquired a 1931 Ford this past fall and had forgotten many things that long ago were instinctive.

Bought my first Model A Ford at age 15 back in 1962 for the whopping sum of $125 cash. It was a rust free, complete, running and breathing 1931 Tudor sedan. After that, over the years there was another half-dozen Model A Ford cars as well as pre-WW2 V8 flathead cruisers. Seemed then to always have a least a couple of old Ford cars on hand that were driven just about every day. It was a regular thing in the 1960s and 70s to drive a stock Model A Ford car from Boston, Massachusetts to Portland, Maine and throughout New England. All those cars were quite reliable. On the occasion when one of them would conk out and stopped running, it was a broken rotor or the points had rattled themselves closed.

Then there was a 35-year hiatus period without any antique cars. About three months ago, I purchased an old amateurish "restoration" Tudor sedan from a widow in northern New Jersey. It is a late (October) 1931 with indented firewall and side-bowl carb. This car appears to have been mechanically rebuilt by somebody who knew what they were doing. This Model A even has a complete set of new looking functioning shock-absorbers. The body however has some sort of crappy paint job that's flaking off exposing unprimed bare metal beneath. Looks as if a drugged out monkey used 99-cent spray paint cans on it. Fenders, which are nice condition as well as the firewall having original data plate are in what looks to be original shiny black paint finish. During the interceding decades, I had forgotten how much fun it was to drive a Model A Ford. Slapped a plate on the thing and drove the wife to church awhile ago. Even more than ever before, the sweet simplicity of that 31' Ford is so much enjoyed and appreciated. Have Model A Ford fever again and I'm hot on the trail of a sound original 1928 blind back Town Sedan. The many barns here in Pennsylvania keep disgorging all kinds of odd and interesting stuff. I am glad to have found this WEB site.

Not for nothing but you had to pick a 6 year old post to be your first? No matter, Welcome to the Barn, Congratulations on your purchase and we are always waiting and eager to help if you ever need it!!

I drove my A for sometime waiting for the plates to come it. Never had a problem but just could not have the car sit until legal.

[RonC]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

To open the radiator cap you would turn just the bird or motometer to the right and lean it back.

Did you mean counterclockwise ?

[pooch]

1/8 turn counter clockwise and the bird flips back.

If it has a motometer under, grab the bird only by the head and top, or there is a natural tendency to put your hands around and under it , and you will surely break the thermometer tube.

[burner31]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

To open the radiator cap you would turn just the bird or motometer to the right and lean it back.

Don't grab the bird and twist, grab the cap and slight twist to the right.
Twist that bird and you are libel to break it off, use the base.

[ddweave]

5 1/2 years have passed since the OP asked the question.
I sure hope he figured it out by now!