Help Quick Fuel SL450SV & Y Block 292

[Eledu]

Dear .. I have a 1982 f100 (Argentina) with a Ford V8 292 Phase 2 engine (similar to the Y block, only the cylinder caps change) and I installed a quick fuel SL450SV carburetor with a single plane intake. The engine is stock .. electronic ignition and headers.
Originally the carburetor came with 56 primary jets and 60 secondary jets ... I put 55 primaries and improved a lot, the problem rises when regulating the secondary ones. When they open, bog is created instantaneously, the only configuration that works is opening the secondaries very little and almost at the end of the rpm (3500 of 4500). I don't know if the bog is caused by lean condition or rich. What do you suggest?
Attached images of the spark plug, the engine and the opening of the secondaries...

Greetings from Argentina!
PD: This website describes the differences between the American Y block and the Argentine phase 2
http://www.fordv8argentina.com.ar/di...sentref1f2.htm

[scicala]

The bog or hesitation could be caused by too light of a spring on the secondary diaphragm. Also, the straight slotted screw in the picture of the diaphragm housing I believe is for adjusting the amount of suction on the diaphragm on the Quick Fuel carbs. You can play with that to see if there is an improvement. I'm doubtful changing from a 56 to 55 primary jet really made a difference.
Also, are you sure the choke is opening up all the way ? I see the ground wire for the heated thermostat cap is not connected.

Sal

[55blacktie]

That single-plane intake manifold probably is contributing to your problems. A single-plane manifold and 465 cfm carburetor is an unusual combination.

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by scicala

The bog or hesitation could be caused by too light of a spring on the secondary diaphragm. Also, the straight slotted screw in the picture of the diaphragm housing I believe is for adjusting the amount of suction on the diaphragm on the Quick Fuel carbs. You can play with that to see if there is an improvement. I'm doubtful changing from a 56 to 55 primary jet really made a difference.
Also, are you sure the choke is opening up all the way ? I see the ground wire for the heated thermostat cap is not connected.

Sal

Precisely what I was telling you is that as soon as I give more opening to the secondaries, with the regulation screw, the bog is produced immediately. I checked it out with the bread twist ..
In the image you can see what you can open without bog.
As for the choke ... it opens completely and the ground is connected to the carburetor as it comes by default.
The change between the two jets was important, the engine became more responsive .. it was kind of slow with the 56.
Greetings.

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

That single-plane intake manifold probably is contributing to your problems. A single-plane manifold and 465 cfm carburetor is an unusual combination.

Possibly lose vacuum very quickly with the single plane intake ..?
The bog can be produced because it is very rich in the secondary ones?
As I mentioned, with the 56 jets in the primaries the engine was slow ... in fact, a flat spot was produced between 1500 and 2000 rpm in WOT.
Although with the 55 jets it is produced, it is much less and improves a lot.
Greetings.

[Ole Don]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

First, set the ignition timing with a vacuum gauge. More advance may help the flat spot. Then keep slowing the secondaries. In the US, we use a spring kit from Holley. It has a half dozen colored springs you can try.

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by Ole Don

First, set the ignition timing with a vacuum gauge. More advance may help the flat spot. Then keep slowing the secondaries. In the US, we use a spring kit from Holley. It has a half dozen colored springs you can try.

The timing is configured with the vacuum gauge and the idle mixture. The diaphragm of my carburetor is adjustable, but as soon as I open it a little, it bogs.
Could it be that the engine does not need the secondary ones?
Is the carburetor too big for the standard engine?
Or by reducing the jets of the secondary schools could they open more?
My secondary jets are 60.
Greetings!

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Eledu

.. I have a 1982 f100 (Argentina) with a Ford V8 292 Phase 2 engine and I installed a quick fuel SL450SV carburetor with a single plane intake.

What made you decide on a SINGLE PLANE INTAKE on a carburetor street engine?

Way too lean -

[55blacktie]

Your carburetor is not too big.

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

What made you decide on a SINGLE PLANE INTAKE on a carburetor street engine?

Way too lean -

As I mentioned, with one more measure of jets, the engine gets sluggish in the middle regimes.
I decided on that intake thinking that in the future change the cam and increase the compression ... but I do not know when that can happen.
With the single plane from 3000 rpm he gets furious.
In my country a wideband is quite expensive, you will already know the economic problems of Argentina.
In the future I will try to acquire one to see what is happening.
Greetings!

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

Your carburetor is not too big.

When I decided to buy it I read a lot, and many said that 465cfm is adequate. I also saw that the 57´ 312ci had that carburetor originally with jets of 55 in the primaries and 48 in the secondary ones. I know my carb is not the same as that 465cfm but the 60 jets in the secondaries won't be too much and is that why this happens?
Greetings!

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Eledu

When I decided to buy it I read a lot, and many said that 465cfm is adequate. I also saw that the 57´ 312ci had that carburetor originally with jets of 55 in the primaries and 48 in the secondary ones. I know my carb is not the same as that 465cfm but the 60 jets in the secondaries won't be too much and is that why this happens?
Greetings!

A 400 to maybe 500 cfm 4 barrel carburetor with a vacuum operated secondary is not too big for a 292.

I agree, the color of the center of that spark plug indicates a 'lean' fuel /air mixture.

I may be assuming too much about your comment above but...
because of all the internal construction & operational differences, the jets in one brand and size of carburetor cannot be compared to the primary and secondary jet size in a different brand or model of carburetor.
They may be similar, but it is just as likely they are not.

A jet size that works well in one carburetor on an engine can be completely wrong in another brand or model carburetor on the same engine. The correct jetting in a particular carburetor is specific to the engine / carburetor combination and the altitude & other conditions in which the car is driven.
.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Eledu

I decided on that intake thinking that in the future change the cam and increase the compression ... but I do not know when that can happen.

With the single plane from 3000 rpm he gets furious.

Your main problem is the intake type. It is generally used for track. There is very little low-end. It can be used for street but the engine has to be modified with a low rear. Do you still have the OEM dual plane 4V intake and/or was one offered for the PHASE 2?

Read this for theory -

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...or-dual-plane/

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

A 400 to maybe 500 cfm 4 barrel carburetor with a vacuum operated secondary is not too big for a 292.

I agree, the color of the center of that spark plug indicates a 'lean' fuel /air mixture.

I may be assuming too much about your comment above but...
because of all the internal construction & operational differences, the jets in one brand and size of carburetor cannot be compared to the primary and secondary jet size in a different brand or model of carburetor.
They may be similar, but it is just as likely they are not.

A jet size that works well in one carburetor on an engine can be completely wrong in another brand or model carburetor on the same engine. The correct jetting in a particular carburetor is specific to the engine / carburetor combination and the altitude & other conditions in which the car is driven.
.

dmsfrr Thank you very much for your reply.
What he tells me is correct, I will try when I can make time to place bigger jets in the secondary ones and smaller ones to see which of the two configurations allows me to regulate the opening before. Greetings.

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Your main problem is the intake type. It is generally used for track. There is very little low-end. It can be used for street but the engine has to be modified with a low rear. Do you still have the OEM dual plane 4V intake and/or was one offered for the PHASE 2?

Read this for theory -

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-te...or-dual-plane/

The original intake is 2bbl, it was never manufactured for 4bbl, some machines transform it into 4bbl. As a last alternative, you could modify the original. Thanks for the article that you shared with me. Greetings.

[55blacktie]

Was the engine running with the 2-barrel carburetor and intake manifold in place? The easiest and cheapest thing to do would be to put the 2-barrel intake manifold and carburetor back on the engine. Rebuild the 2-barrel carburetor if necessary. Your stating that the "cylinder caps" are different, I'm assuming that you mean that the intake ports are not stacked, one on top of another, but are inline, side-by-side. This could limit your intake manifold choices, but I don't know what's available in Argentina for your application. If you are determined to use the four-barrel carburetor, you will need to find a dual-plane, four-barrel intake manifold that has the same intake ports as your cylinder heads ("caps"). In the meantime, you might want to look for internet articles that explain the differences between dual-plane and single-plane intake manifolds and how or when they should be used.

[KULTULZ]

ford argentina call the engines fhase 1 for the 292 like the original from EEUU and fhase 2 for the new modification since 1972 to 1992. In brazil the 292 was manufacturing to 1980 but they engine was not modified, they are bulid the same engine from EEUU.

SOURCE - http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic41341-1.aspx

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

SOURCE - http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic41341-1.aspx

Yes, it is basically the same block with some improvements, such as the cylinder heads (similar to 302 engine), a water pump with two circulation channels. Except for the cilinder heads and the camshaft, the rest of the parts are 100% compatible with the Y block, that's why I made my query in this forum. In Argentina it was manufactured in some f100s until 1990 and in the Argentine ford fairline (same as the 1969 ford torino 4 doors) until 1982. https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fairlane_(Argentina) My father had one (Fairline) and I could never forget the sound of that engine, that's why I bought this f100! Greetings!

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

Was the engine running with the 2-barrel carburetor and intake manifold in place? The easiest and cheapest thing to do would be to put the 2-barrel intake manifold and carburetor back on the engine. Rebuild the 2-barrel carburetor if necessary. Your stating that the "cylinder caps" are different, I'm assuming that you mean that the intake ports are not stacked, one on top of another, but are inline, side-by-side. This could limit your intake manifold choices, but I don't know what's available in Argentina for your application. If you are determined to use the four-barrel carburetor, you will need to find a dual-plane, four-barrel intake manifold that has the same intake ports as your cylinder heads ("caps"). In the meantime, you might want to look for internet articles that explain the differences between dual-plane and single-plane intake manifolds and how or when they should be used.

This is finding out if it is possible to machine the original intake to make it 4bbl ... if so, possibly it will. Thank you all very much for your suggestions! Greetings!

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Eledu

This is finding out if it is possible to machine the original intake to make it 4bbl ... if so, possibly it will. Thank you all very much for your suggestions! Greetings!

A 4bbl to 2bbl adapter flange would be much easier. See the example at this link.
Although probably not as original looking.

https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Gasket-2-B.../dp/B00068OS2W

.

[55blacktie]

American Y-block 2-barrel intake manifolds have a 3-bolt carburetor pattern. Unless your 2-barrel manifold has four bolts, the Mr. Gasket adapter won't fit.

As far as modifying your 2-barrel manifold to 4-barrel is concerned, anything is possible, given that you can find a machinist with the skills to do it, and you are willing to pay the price. In my opinion, it would not be worth the investment.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by 55blacktie

American Y-block 2-barrel intake manifolds have a 3-bolt carburetor pattern. Unless your 2-barrel manifold has four bolts, the Mr. Gasket adapter won't fit.

As far as modifying your 2-barrel manifold to 4-barrel is concerned, anything is possible, given that you can find a machinist with the skills to do it, and you are willing to pay the price. In my opinion, it would not be worth the investment.

Not sure which 2 barrel intake manifold Eledu may have [I have a 1982 f100 (Argentina) with a Ford V8 292 Phase 2 engine - The original intake is 2bbl]
but starting in '57 the North American Y-block engines went to a 4 bolt pattern on the intake for the base of a 2bbl carburetor ( '57 ECG-H example below) and assuming the newer Phase 2 engines may have done the same?
.

[KULTULZ]

The PHASE II cylinder heads are unique to that engine.





What I don't understand is why a single-plane 4V intake would be produced and not a 4V dual-plane for street.

[55blacktie]

Exactly.

[KULTULZ]

If you have the PHASE II engine, the OEM 2V intake should be 4-bolt plenum. Below is shown with a 2300 HOLLEY -

If true, the 4V to 2V adapter should work. That would at least make it street-able.

[Eledu]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Dear, I got my original intake machined, it will look similar to this photo that I attach, only that I asked you to extend the partition to the top in the template. As soon as I have it, I will tell you how it went. Greetings!

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Eledu

I got my original intake machined, it will look similar to this photo that I attach, only that I asked you to extend the partition to the top in the template. As soon as I have it, I will tell you how it went. Greetings!

Please keep the board informed.

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Please keep the board informed.

Dear, today I finally installed the original intake modified to 4bbl. It works perfect! the opening of the secondaries can be regulated very well! I just need to add one more spring to the throttle..
because it has happened to me that being in wot with the secondaries open that when releasing the throttle, it remained a second fully when releasing ... as my spring could not overcome the vacuum of the lung when decelerating! What a scare! I attach images:

drive.google.com/file/d/1fyWRi6R4OXtxauzLRu-BGpsb5dHWqtK_/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1fu49GqZG9OqW58O6gGt78DBwhbE3zImt/view?usp=sharing
drive.google.com/file/d/1ftCWN-GNTpSeiGb_wXwinWHgthzCTSK9/view?usp=sharing
Cheers!

[miker98038]

I have heard of the throttle staying open on vacumn secondary carbs, but never had it happen. I also heard the problem is with the assembly, not the throttle return spring. Perhaps Sal or someone who knows will chime in on that issue.

Yes, stuck throttles are really a scare.

[KULTULZ]

Do you mean the carb primary throttle plates did not return/close because of a weak return spring or the secondary throttle plates hung open?

Make sure there is no linkage binding, you have the correct sized spacer/gaskets and that the throttle plates are not hanging in the throttle bore on either carb and spacer/gasket.

[estout81]

On a Holley there's a linkage to close the secondaries when the primaries close. It's the little wire thing that connects the primaries to the secondaries. Must be connected or the secondaries can stay open, even with the primaries closed. Had it happen before.

[scicala]

What estout81 said is what I was thinking too. Also make sure the return spring on the primary throttle is hooked up at a good angle and enough tension.

Sal

[Eledu]

I tell you that when it locks, the pedal remains fully .. consequently the primaries are also open .. it is as if it were a delay of one second.
I am using a single spring, it can be seen in the photos ... and the connecting rod to the secondaries is connected.
Check the base of the intake since it is filed so that they do not touch primaries and secondaries (photos)... it does not seem to touch anywhere when moved. It's weird .. I'll add the second spring and we'll see what happens.
Cheers!

[miker98038]

If a spring doesn't fix it.

I had an experience on car where I changed the carb and manifold. I adjusted the throttle linkage and it all worked fine. But under full throttle the engine torque was enough to bind up the linkage. Only happened when driving, took a while to find. I found a way to fix it by shortening a link. Long shot.

[KULTULZ]

Read This - https://www.stang65.com/holley-throt...llation-guide/

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Eledu

I got my original intake machined, it will look similar to this photo that I attach, only that I asked you to extend the partition to the top in the template. As soon as I have it, I will tell you how it went. Greetings!

If somehow, the machinist was able to extend the plenum divider into the carb spacer, make sure the throttle shaft blades do not hit it in any way.

Can you show a photo of the spacer as installed and throttle linkage (rod or cable)?

[56sedandelivery]

Never heard of a phase 2. Learn something new everyday. Exhaust header spacing threw me off.

[KULTULZ]

Never heard of a phase 2

Argentina only. Brazil kept our design.

[Eledu]

Boys .. problem solved! Just adding the spring worked perfectly!
A thank you to all of you, without your recommendations I would never have tried to change the original admission to 4 bbl.
Thanks a lot!

[Eledu]

Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery

Never heard of a phase 2. Learn something new everyday. Exhaust header spacing threw me off.

Dear, on this page you can see the differences with the American Y block.
http://fordv8argentina.com.ar/diferenciasentref1f2.htm
Cheers!