Got my first T and having starting issues

[onthehunt]

I picked up a new-to-me '22 center door at an estate sale last weekend. It's a wonderful car - seems like a well preserved car that has an old repaint but is otherwise original.



Previous owner appears to have gone through the carb, gas tank is clean, old battery was dated 2009, oil is clean, etc. So I assumed it ran when parked 10 or 12 years ago.



But I cannot get it to fire for more than 3 or 4 revolutions at most.It just fires, sputters and dies. Every...single...time...




It has decent compression - will blow my thumb off the each plug hole and suck it back in. Fuel is clean, I pulled and cleaned the carb, it has fuel in the bowl, all 4 coils buzz on battery and plugs fire strong out of the motor (#3 is a little weak)...



It seems to want a lot of choke, and I can get it to pull enough fuel that the carb pukes gas, but the plugs are dry when I check them. I've tried every combination of choke, mixture and throttle.



Pulled the valve cover and there are no stuck valves, exhaust and muffler aren't plugged up. Inside of the motor looks very clean, surprisingly. Engine doesn't kick back and feels normal when I crank it.



What am I missing here? Do I have a timing issue? Low compression?


And to complicate things even further...it seems to have a few damaged teeth on the ring gear, so I hand cranked it on battery for most of the afternoon. I'm sore and PO'd now

[mercman from oz]

1922 Ford Model T Centre Door purchased by onthehunt. What a great find.

[29spcoupe]

Try turning the mixture about a quarter of a turn richer. Also jack up a rear wheel. This will act like a second flywheel. Sometimes the oil between the clutch discs is too thick until the oil warms up causing the tranny to act like it is in gear. Make sure you put a chock in front of one of the front wheels. John

[Utopia Texas]

If the carburetor is puking raw gas you are way over choking. I have four T’s in different shape and different carburetors and they all flood if choked for more than a second. Once flooded almost impossible to start. They also start easier with the gas lever 1/3rd. Down.

Save your arm and until you have the T in running order and learn it’s peculiarities try starting it by having someone gently pull the T with another vehicle. First make sure all the spark plugs are getting spark.
PS-When pull starting be sure the key is in the “on” position. Don’t ask me how I know!

[Robert/Texas]

Drain a little gas from the tank and then again a little from the carburetor bowl. My cars often collected water when I was using corn gas and not driving them much.

[rotorwrench]

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I can only assume of what type carb you have. If the idle circuit hasn't been cleaned out well enough on the carbs that have one then it may be a source of idle problems. Manifold leaks or throttle shaft air leaks can make for a lean mixture.

[onthehunt]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll keep plugging away at it.



Also, the carb is a Kingston

[rotorwrench]

A 1922 car would likely have the Kingston L4 carburetor. The L4 has kind of a uniquely designed system with that on demand air control flap in there. The idle mixture has special passages in the adjustable jet assembly to atomize idle fuel mixture until the air flow and fuel flow increase off idle. The air and fuel passages for the idle circuit have to be clean and free of obstruction for the idle circuit to function properly. The mixture jet adjustment has to be balanced between idle, low speed, and high speed mixture so it's not ideal for adjustments for any single one of the fuel delivery stages. I'm sure a person can get used to it after a time. A person may not want to choke it too much but that also depends on outside air temps.

Some folks swear by the L4 and some gravitate toward the Holley NH since the NH has a more conventional idle circuit. Folks seem to like the top end performance of the L4. Ford was building so many model Ts that they had to use both carbs just to keep up with production in that time frame.

[onthehunt]

I have the L4 carb. I've disassembled it and blown air through all the ports several times, but it's certainly possible the low speed ports are clogged...Is there any access to them for cleaning? Air valve moves freely, main jet is the original style and moves freely, etc.



Might be worth swapping carbs...I'll have to dig through my parts stash, but I think I sold all my Holley carbs.



I'll try the one wheel off the ground trick tomorrow...maybe it's just not getting enough cranking speed to draw fuel.

[rotorwrench]

I was looking at other information on the L4 carbs and found this link. It's the best one I've seen about explaining the idle circuit ports with hand drawn diagrams that are a pretty good visual diagram of how that carb works for both idle and higher speed circuits.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1315688916

Cleaning one with too much crust inside would be a real challenge. There isn't much access to that needle jet inside there.

[39portlander]

That is a very nice center door, find an NH and see how she runs narrowing down your problem. If you are in North Ridgeville there are some great folks among the "tikin T's" of central OHIO that would help you out for sure.

Vehicles that come from estates have been in limbo as you know, check vent hole on fuel tank cap. As I did, drain the fuel tank and thouroughly clean and flush out tank and sediment bowl.

As others have suggested that L4 needs some love and again a good known NH bolted on to keeper running to access the rest. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Another common item is check the intake/exhaust port sealing, I have the 3063MC copper clad gasket set from Langs. Seals and holds things together to form a tight fit.

[onthehunt]

Jacked it up and it definitely made cranking easier, and with less load the starter stayed engaged with the ring gear most of the time. I was able to get it to run for 10-15 seconds several times. Still working with mixture and choke settings.



The engine sounded good when it was running, so hopefully I have no other major issues.



She's slowly coming back to life!

[J Franklin]

I had a problem like that and found I needed to adjust the float level slightly in the carb for more fuel in the bowl.

[onthehunt]

I got her to run! Went through the carb for the third time and blew a lot of compressed air through it. Cleaned every orifice with torch tip cleaners. The manifold gaskets were pretty old, so I replaced them with a copper lined set. Also jacked up the right rear tire.



It took a few more cranks but eventually I found the right choke and mixture settings and now it starts easily by hand. I've driven it around our lot and it's a great running car. I think it was a combination of leaky intake and dirt in the orifices that kept it from pulling fuel.



My starter has a weak keyway, so once I get the electric starter working I'll brave the roads for more test drives.

[Utopia Texas]

Congratulations, Now go have some fun!��