Timing procedure on 59AB?

[cabrioletgalaxie]

I need to know the procedure for timing my 59AB after rebuilding the distributor.
The engine will run but it is ragged. I do not have a timing jig for the distributor.
I have seen on youTube that one can find TDC on the #1 cylinder by going through the plug hole but that seems difficult because it's at an angle from the plug hole. Or by looking for a closed exhaust valve in the #6 cylinder. Then I need to know the procedure beyond that.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

[JSeery]

Several threads on that topic and a video (Mart).

[V8COOPMAN]

In the picture below, look carefully at the slot on the end of the camshaft that turns the distributor. Note that that slot is slightly off center so that THEORETICALLY, the off-center drive tang on the distributor will only fit properly when the distributor and cam are properly aligned. Look carefully and determine which way the slot is offset on the cam in picture. The picture shows the crank on TDC for #1 cylinder FIRING. With your cam slot in the position shown, you can mount the distributor with it's tang turned appropriately and the distributor should be properly timed. Just for reference, if you'll look closely at the crank gear, the keyway is appropriately pointing toward #1 cylinder. Hope this helps ya! DD

[Tinker]

Well lot of stuff here on finding TDC with the heads on. Ziptie on the number 1 will get you in the ball park. Removing the head and putting a meter or dead stop will be better.



One of many posts. Keep asking.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...9657&showall=1


A librarian post.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=10940

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Tinker

Well lot of stuff here on finding TDC with the heads on. Ziptie on the number 1 will get you in the ball park. Removing the head and putting a meter or dead stop will be better.



One of many posts. Keep asking.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...9657&showall=1


A librarian post.
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=10940

For anyone that has paid attention while reading his original post, he plainly states that the engine was ALREADY built AND RUNNING, and he has only removed the distributor for rebuilding. He is seemingly asking only how to properly time the distributor to the engine again. DD

[Tinker]

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Originally Posted by cabrioletgalaxie

I have seen on youTube that one can find TDC on the #1 cylinder by going through the plug hole but that seems difficult because it's at an angle from the plug hole. Or by looking for a closed exhaust valve in the #6 cylinder. Then I need to know the procedure beyond that.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Nothing says he found tdc? It's a closed motor. You can mark a early motor to fine tune timing. Finding tdc is never bad.

[flatheadmurre]

If you go to Vanpelts site you find a way to time your distributor.
http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...str-timing.htm
That is a start...then you have to check that your springpressure on the points is good enough...a broken or weak spring and you get issues...not to forget new condensors that are bad right out of the box...

[Hoop]

FIRST ... what distributor do you have. Need to confirm that before any instructions can be given.

What gap did you set the points at?

On the small sliding index on the side of the case, which mark do you have it set at?

This will be an indicator to some of us of your situation.

IGNORE all references to finding TDC. It's not necessary.

(Let's focus on setting a workable timing. TESTING the distributor's functions is a different exercise.)

[FortyNiner]

Assuming you have a stock setup, use the VanPelt instructions. Take your time and check your work. I do not possess any special talent or equipment and reset my disty first pass. The timing marks should look like this:

[Hoop]

FortyNiner, the picture you posted above has nothing to do with 59ab distributor timing. Not sure where you found that procedure .... but, it's wrong and confuses the issue.

[FortyNiner]

I took the picture. Are they not timing marks?

[cabrioletgalaxie]

Yes, engine is in the car as I toured with it last year. Then had what turned out to be an ignition switch burn out. Before finding that we pulled the dust as we thought the points might be closed. While it was out we replaced points and condenser and set the timing according to what we found on line, but can't remember the number.
I will view all the links your guys sent me and thank you. I hope it shows me a way to time this engine without taking anything apart.

[41ford1]

I believe this is what the OP is looking for.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...str-timing.htm

[Mart]

I'd say if you have no access to a distributor setting jig, no pointer for TDC, no adjustable timing light and no dwell meter then the best you can do is put it in and drive it, then adjust it a bit one way and see if it feels better and keep adjusting things until you feel it drives the best.

If you have a tdc pointer and an adjustable timing light then you're 90% there.

If I had nothing I'd set both sets of points to 15 thou and set the points plate to the middle mark.

If it is running rough it is probably not the timing that is causing it, but something else, most likely culprit is a bad condenser.

I made a video that shows how to make a reliable TDC pointer and mark. No dismantling necessary, except for a spark plug or two. A timing light with a "dial back" feature would then be useful if one could be bought or borrowed.

Here's a link if it might be helpful to you:
https://youtu.be/dn446jjCVRg

I have a better version that I need to edit. That will go up as a tech short sometime in the future.

Mart.

[Kurt in NJ]

I don't know how to do a link, I googled "ford flathead distributor timing" ----there will be a picture showing 2 rulers, look at that, this is what i used when i had a 46 and no special tools

it doesn't matter where the engine position is, turn the dist till it drops in, has to go fully in flush, there is offset on the tang, and camshaft ---only goes properly one way, if you try to pull it in with the bolts it will break

[cabrioletgalaxie]

Did you ever "know" that you had an electrical problem and it turned out to be a fuel problem?? Well, that's what happened to me. Because we had put new points and condenser in the distributor we thought we hadn't set it up properly since it didn't run well.
Just prior to that I had found there was crud in the sed bowl that had gotten into the new fuel pump causing it to fail. After trying to clean it and finding the 2 valves in the pump were not the type that could be changed I bought a new fuel pump, installed it and it worked fine but the engine was hard to start requiring 3/4 choke and my foot into the accelerator to keep it running, roughly.
So I thought the distributor was the issue, hence my plea for a way to set up my distributor.
But before I got into that I decided to go the next step with my fuel system and take off the carb, which I had rebuilt just 6 months ago. My thought was that some of the crud in the fuel could have made its way into the carb.
Sure enough with it on the bench I took out the rubber tipped shut off valve just in from the fuel inlet and found a small sliver of metal which I think prevented the needle from seating and keeping too much gas flowing into the carb. By the way when I had initially purchased the car over a year ago I found the gas tank to be full of rust which is why I not only replaced the fuel pump and put rebuild kit into the carb I actually replaced the gas tank thinking I would avoid any fuel issues. But I think the crud I had in the fuel system was actually from the new tank. So I now have an ugly inline fuel filter which I can monitor and replace when needed.
Once the carb was reinstalled the engine fired and ran smoothly.
So for now I will use it as is and as one of you mentioned if I am not satisfied I can just tweak the distributor timing a bit and see if I can improve it.
In the meantime I am looking for a timing fixture but am shocked to find prices ranging from $495. to $800. Scary.
Thank you all for your comments and thank you Mart. I had watched your video initially about making a TDC pointer. Something I may do in the future.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by cabrioletgalaxie

Because we had put new points and condenser in the distributor we thought we hadn't set it up properly since it didn't run well.

So I thought the distributor was the issue, hence my plea for a way to set up my distributor.


In the meantime I am looking for a timing fixture but am shocked to find prices ranging from $495. to $800. Scary.
Thank you all for your comments and thank you Mart. I had watched your video initially about making a TDC pointer. Something I may do in the future.

Why don't ya just contact Michael Driscoll at 3rd Gen and let him spin that thing up on his very professional distributor machine. Not expensive in the least, and it will come back set-up to perform with "perfection". Send Michael a PM at:


35fordtn
Senior Member



Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McMinnville, TN
Posts: 1,603
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DD

[Hoop]

I simply cannot believe that Henry Ford and Ford Motor Company gambled the entire future of the company on a new V8 engine ... with a distributor that had to be timed by Michael in Tennessee with a machine that hadn't been invented yet.

Does that make any sense?

I've read Ford's patent on the helmet distributor. It states that it could be timed by someone with little or no mechanical skills and without the need for special equipment.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US1963657A/en

It does not mention Michael at all.

Timing is ... timing. If you have a distributor with problems like excessive wear, etc. and need it tested and maybe rebuilt, by all means send it to Michael or Charley or your choice. But, timing itself was designed to be simple.

The average early flathead owner should be able to replace points and time the distributor. It's a job that can be very satisfying without a lot of heavy lifting involved

[RobR'35]

Very cool Hoop.
Thanks for the link.

[Hoop]

Rob, don't ever sell that car!

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Hoop

I've read Ford's patent on the helmet distributor. It states that it could be timed by someone with little or no mechanical skills and without the need for special equipment. It does not mention Michael at all.

The average early flathead owner should be able to replace points and time the distributor. It's a job that can be very satisfying without a lot of heavy lifting involved

Hoop...Apparently, the guy has attempted to resolve his situation via several previous steps. You and I have the experience and abilities to diagnose and rectify these kinds of ailments...easy peasy! But this guy obviously isn't happy with his results, nor does he seem confident in his abilities to satisfactorily rectify what is an easily-addressed, simple solution for some of us other mere mortals. I certainly can't travel up there to help him out this week, and I don't believe I heard you offering to go up and fix it for the guy, either. Since he now seems to think that spending un-Godly obscene dollar amounts on a timing fixture may be the route to his distributor's eventual vindication, and since I regretfully can't make it up there to help him out, I merely suggested Michael's services to possibly give the guy some qualified peace of mind for a relatively few bucks.


Does that make any sense, Hoop?


DD

[Hoop]

DD, I'm sure I read it differently than you.

He has already been into the distributor and close enough to setting the timing (with a bit more understanding.) He's been into the carburetor and successfully cleaned it out.

He wants a timing fixture which means he's interested in continuing.

I'm not ready to give up on him.

I agree with you that Michael's (and other's) services are there as a backstop for those who want/need them. But, there is the possibility that the OP wants to learn ... We often discuss getting people involved in the hobby. Maybe that includes being a mail order mechanic.

I always fear falling short of being clear in my writing, but my intention was to encourage him to seek out more information on his distributor. A better understanding of its design/operation would go a long way to expanding his skill set.

The helmet and crab distributors share the same basic design which includes simplicity in timing them. They also share the same undeserved reputation of being complicated and hard to work with.

Anyhow, whether it makes sense or not, I will continue to lean toward encouraging folks to tinker with their distributors.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Hoop

DD, I'm sure I read it differently than you.

He has already been into the distributor and close enough to setting the timing (with a bit more understanding.) He's been into the carburetor and successfully cleaned it out.

He wants a timing fixture which means he's interested in continuing.

I'm not ready to give up on him.

I agree with you that Michael's (and other's) services are there as a backstop for those who want/need them. But, there is the possibility that the OP wants to learn ... We often discuss getting people involved in the hobby. Maybe that includes being a mail order mechanic.

I always fear falling short of being clear in my writing, but my intention was to encourage him to seek out more information on his distributor. A better understanding of its design/operation would go a long way to expanding his skill set.

The helmet and crab distributors share the same basic design which includes simplicity in timing them. They also share the same undeserved reputation of being complicated and hard to work with.

Anyhow, whether it makes sense or not, I will continue to lean toward encouraging folks to tinker with their distributors.

Hey Hoopman….NOW I understand where you were headed with this, and I've gotta concur totally with every word you say just above. I'd also like to make amends for taking what you were trying to say the wrong way. Never mind me....as usual, YOU're doing just fine!


Curiosity....Any background on just how you came to be equipped with the name "Hoop"? I figure everybody has a story! But if your story is spooky or embarrassing, never mind! DD

[Hoop]

Thank you, DD.

The name? It reflects the area I grew up in and some of the impossibly poor folks that lived there. They were families that lived off the grid. The men came into the factories and mills along the river valley taking the lowest jobs in order feed those families.

Frequently they worked making hoops for barrels in the cooperages.

(It was not fashionable back then to live off the grid, by the way.)

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Hoop

Thank you, DD.

The name? It reflects the area I grew up in and some of the impossibly poor folks that lived there. They were families that lived off the grid. The men came into the factories and mills along the river valley taking the lowest jobs in order feed those families.

Frequently they worked making hoops for barrels in the cooperages.

(It was not fashionable back then to live off the grid, by the way.)

Wow....amazing! There were certainly some admirable people around the nation back in the day, holding their heads high and willing to do what it took to support family and self. Thanks for the brief insight, Hoop. Ya know, I've often hoped that you've been able to shed that body cast and able to run fast again like Forest Gump!


DD

[bobH]

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Back to the 'timing-topic'..... I have a tendency to sympathize on the desire for 'professional' timing. Reason... My (limited) experience has been that MY cars have seemed to run better with a distributor that has been 'professionally' timed (and points set by dwell, and not a feeler gauge.)
Sure, I know how to install points, and set them with a feeler. And, I have three of those static timing fixtures. And, I have 6-inch steel scales that I have used for THAT timing method. But, an out-of-the-box distributor SEEMS to run better than my best attempts.
Obviously, just opinion...
Remember how we did it in the 50's? At the shop where I worked, we NEVER installed points on a flathead. We got a 'rebuilt' distributor from our jobber, across the street. Or, if working at home, we went to Western Auto, or Pep Boys, and got a distributor. I think they were something like $1.95 exchange, with new points, set up, ready to install.

Another PS.... Those prices for a timing fixture? Regarding the ones I have, I can't imagine anything over ten bucks at a swap meet. There's almost nothing to them.

[Hoop]

My cars always run better after i wash them.

Funny how that works.