30 Roadster Project-Engine start (UPDATE)RUNNING!!!

[bogdonj]

As many of you know we rescued another Model A...30 Deluxe Roadster. It sat in a heated garage for 8 years and the person passed away and the widow sold it to us. We have been trying for weeks to get the engine cleaned up and test everything! Today we finally got it started but it runs really rough.

Turned over after giving it a lot of choke but would only really stay running when the spark was fully retarded????????. We timed the vehicle, new plugs,carb,wiring,cutout, oil, ignition switch. All the points gaped and the points set. I believe we have an exhaust leak at the manifold because smoke came out between the exhaust and block when the vehicle ran. Would this cause it to run really rough? Little bit of white smoke out the tail pipe when we got it to stay running. Maybe head gasket issue or just years of sitting?

Where do you think we should start next? take off the manifold and check it and also put in new gaskets? The only way we could keep it running if we were putting down the peddle.

here are some videos of it running..

Thoughts are welcome...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gddWyuZGZfo


part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN2lIijudjo






Justin.

[TinCup]

Have you checked for fuel flow? Is the carb clear of debris?

[ddweave]

I wonder if you have sticky valves in 1 or 2 cylinders. I'd start by pulling the spark plugs and looking in to see if all of the valves are opening and closing. A sticky intake valve is like a giant vacuum leak.

[1931 flamingo]

Like the others have said, MMO and ck gas flow. I would ALSO replace the intake/exhaust gaskets and ck the carb gasket. Sounds like it's not firing on all four=valves sticking. If you se a LOT of MMo you're probably going to get some smoke out the tail pipe. Verify also that you're not "losing" water into the cyls. JMO
Paul in CT

[85930tudor]

sounds like sticking valves to me. I have that prob with engines that sit for years

[Great Lakes Greg]

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I suppose a compression check would find the sticky valve issue quickly.

[bogdonj]

Thanks for the comments so far.. i'm going to get a compression gauge tomorrow and see what we find.. someone told me to add a little bit of tranny oil (600w) in the gas to help with sticky valves? any truth to this?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by bogdonj

Thanks for the comments so far.. i'm going to get a compression gauge tomorrow and see what we find.. someone told me to add a little bit of tranny oil (600w) in the gas to help with sticky valves? any truth to this?

It might help, but I'd try a can of SEAFOAM in the gas and another can in the oil.

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

It might help, but I'd try a can of SEAFOAM in the gas and another can in the oil.

I will give that a try..just out of curiosity, why would it want to stall out when I pull the advance down? Also I’m guessing I have to have my foot on the gas in order to keep it running because of the sticky valves? Those are the 2 questions that leave me puzzled.

Justin

[Tom Wesenberg]

Sometimes the wire between the upper and lower distributor plates will short out when moving the advance lever. If that isn't the reason for the engine stopping, then I'd guess the spark is out of time.

Spark lever at top should be TDC, then when the engine starts you should pull the lever about 1/2 way down it's travel. A high compression head takes a bit less advance.

[JoeWay]

Originally Posted by bogdonj

Thanks for the comments so far.. i'm going to get a compression gauge tomorrow and see what we find.. someone told me to add a little bit of tranny oil (600w) in the gas to help with sticky valves? any truth to this?

I've never heard anyone recommend gear oil of any kind for sticky valves. I have often heard a recommendation of a small amount of ATF (automatic transmission fluid). It is much like MMO in consistency and effect. I suspect your advisor confused transmission oil with ATF.

Joe

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by JoeWay

I've never heard anyone recommend gear oil of any kind for sticky valves. I have often heard a recommendation of a small amount of ATF (automatic transmission fluid). It is much like MMO in consistency and effect. I suspect your advisor confused transmission oil with ATF.

Joe

Good catch Joe. I didn't even catch that and when I saw "tranny oil" I was thinking ATF. I know my old boss always recommended a quart of ATF in the fresh oil change oil to help with sticking hydraulic lifters.

[Gumpy]

try seafoam and MM Oil,,,,,,works wonders!

[29 Tudor]

There are many on here with MUCH more "A" experience than I but I have LOTS of experience with later motors and that leads me to say I will be surprised if the problem is stuck valves. When the engine is cranking (in your video), the compression sounds pretty darn even to me. Have you done a compression test? I would certainly do that to answer the question of stuck valves. If I had to bet, I'd go for carburetor or ignition... probably carburetor. I'm betting on plugged jet(s).

Let us know what you find.

Steve

[bogdonj]

compression test will happen tonight.. I will let you know what I find!

[pooch]

Bad spark.

Attach a timing light to coil lead.

Bet you see an irregular flash that will correspond to engine missing.

[bogdonj]

Worked on the Roadster tonight and did a compression test on all 4 of the Cylinders! they were all in the same area and basically sat at 43-45PSI.... now we do have a manifold leak so would this take some PSI away? 40-45psi seems pretty good to me seeing that this engine is pretty old. But you experts will be able to say yes or no.

Also with the plugs out I turned the engine over and made sure all of the valves were coming up and seating properly. No valves had a hard time seating. Did notice the plugs were wet with gas and every piston was moving up and down.



Next steps?????


New distributor maybe?



Justin

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by pooch

Bad spark.

Attach a timing light to coil lead.

Bet you see an irregular flash that will correspond to engine missing.

what would cause this??? bad dist?

[29 Tudor]

I'm betting that most of your problem is caused by the carburetor. Do an overhaul on it, check the manifold and carb gaskets and I bet your engine runs MUCH better.

Steve

[John S]

I would say that the compression seems a little low, but since all cyls. are pretty even you may be ok. Did you check the compression with the carb wide open? If it wasn't wide open during the test that could be the cause of the slightly low readings. A manifold leak should not change the results of the test. You say that you saw a little smoke in the manifold area and that would indicate an exhaust leak. There could very well be a vacum leak on the intake too. May be wise to go ahead and replace the gasket now. You may be able to kill two birds with one stone, fixing both problems with one gasket.

[petew]

I'm no Model A expert but to me that thing sounds like it is running out of gas. I would do some snooping inside that carb.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I haven't viewed the videos to form an opinion, but a compression test is only one of two checks you need to make. Also connect a vaccum guage because a slow to close valve will give a good compression reading at cranking speed, but won't be closing like it should be doing at engine running speed.

[pooch]

Originally Posted by bogdonj

what would cause this??? bad dist?

Well, you have to diagnose the problem.

Spark, compression, valves, carb.

What I suggested would quickly diagnose spark.

[1930artdeco]

Is it possible since the car sat so long that the fuel tank has crud in it? Or the Gas absorbed just enough water?

Mike

[bogdonj]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

Is it possible since the car sat so long that the fuel tank has crud in it? Or the Gas absorbed just enough water?

Mike

No, this was the first thing we checked when getting it and have put a new cediment bowl on and made sure good gas was in it and good flow to the carb.

[Tom Wesenberg]

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I just viewed the 2 videos and agree that the compression looks good and even while cranking. I would pull the coil wire out of the distributor cap and slip a 1/4 x 1" bolt into the hole, then hold the coil wire on it until the engine starts. When the missing starts pull the coil wire 1/8" away to see if you are loosing spark. No point digging into the carb if the spark is bad.

[bogdonj]

::::::::::UPDATE:::::::::::::::

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGGNc72PikY




Wrenched in the garage after work today.. bought some sea foam like you guys mentioned and put some in the oil and gas and cranked it over but nothing would happen.....tried to re time the engine and set the points again just to be sure and same results would fire for a split second and quit.... Almost gave up and then I looked at the condenser and joked about changing it with another one and yessss you guys guess it.. I did and SHE fired almost admittedly and ran strong after a minute. Let it run for about 30 mins as you can see in the video. We know we have a manifold leak we got to fix but thought it sounded pretty good so far. Still can't believe it was a condenser???????????



I did notice the rad got really warm and it does seem to drain the water out slow thought the pet cock....tomorrow going to flush it and see what happens.


Getting it at least running is a huge accomplishment and we are learning everything.. This is what it's all about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[29 Tudor]

GOODONYA!

Like they say, 90% of carburetor problems are ignition.

Steve