does a motor need all its valves to run right?

[cas3]

just kidding of course, but checking out another "rebuilt" motor i bought last year at chickasha, i find that one is gone! heres the story, the guy had a 21 studder that was complete, and was rebuilt 30 years ago, then swapped out when a merc motor became available. 37ish. i've never had a good 21 stud to play with, so i looked at it many times over the two day event. started out at 500 bucks, and i told him i've bought plenty of "rebuilt" motors that were junk, and i'm trying to break that habit. but...i kept going back and looking at it, and the price from him kept going down. so, it really did look pretty clean, some oil/dust build up on the breather side of the oil pan, to be expected if any miles were on it, but the rest was clean. spark plugs were loose and i pulled a few (few is the key word here) and the valves were high on the deck, and no rust in sight. i still said no, and as i was on my way to leave the guy gave me the final offer which was what a few parts were worth so it came home with me. today i finally put it in my test stand to run it. as expected it had a couple dead holes with my thumb compression tester. no big deal, oil em up and tap with an allen wrench till they work. done it many times. i get two done and looking in with a flashlite to see which one is stuck....i see it has no valve in that hole! no noise when i crank it with 12 volts, and the pan bolts are greasy like its never been apart,where did it go? head nuts are soaking now, story to be continued when i pull the head. another "rebuilt" motor...sigh

[Brian]

i've never had a good 21 stud to play with

Now you have! i look forward to the next installment

[fordcragar]

That's interesting, looking forward to hearing what you find.

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by fordcragar

That's interesting, looking forward to hearing what you find.

me too!

[tubman]

I don't think it could happen with a flathead, but on my race hemi I broke an exhaust rocker and the valve head came off and must have gone out the exhaust port, because when I pulled the head, it was nowhere to be found.

[Cecil/WV]

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Look to see if you also have a hole in that piston.

[cas3]

well the head came off too easy, so i knew it had been apart before. inside i found that the spring and guide were gone too. next i noticed that looking into the valley i could see a brown paper bag....a bag of money perhaps? tune in again tomorrow for the next exciting episode of "where the valve hides". naw, i wouldnt do that to you guys! so next off was the intake where the bag was actually some brown paper gun targets. must have been "one of those gun tote'n republicans they talk about on cnn. no money, just a valve with a broken spring. next i find that the other two valves that were sticking, actually had the retainer clips removed, and also had broken springs. so 4 springs in all, why? looking at the cam it seemed a bit more "pointy" than a normal cam, so i looked at the front, and found 835 stamped on one half, and 5-1 on the other. any ideas what that could be? also, is that an old johnson lifter? thanks, skip

[flatheadmurre]

Probably 5-T which is a ford camshaft and then reground.

[Ggmac]

It could have been worse . A larger paper bag with a bent rod or broken piston !
I hope all other parts are ok and this gets running soon .

[leon bee]

This is cool stuff but I been wondering all night: What does "oil em up and tap with allen wrench" mean?

[cas3]

if you have a motor that has been resting for a bit, you'll most likely have some valves stick open. heres what i do, take out all the spark plugs, then spin it over with the starter and stick your thumb over the plug holes to see which ones have compression,and which ones are dead. on the dead holes, squirt your favorite oil in there trying to get it all over the back of the valve so it hopefully will dribble down on to the guide and stem. then i take about 1/4" allen wrench and stick it in so the end of the wrench is hitting the middle of the valve and not the edge, and pound with a small hammer. dont get wild, if it doesnt move spray some more and wait. once you get them moving you will repeat the process until your thumb gets compression. if they are not rusted to death, it will hopefully get better once it has run a while. if they dont move you gotta pull the head

[cas3]

anyone have any guesses why there would be 4 springs broken? cheap springs, wild cam, wild driving, any thoughts?

[qmdv]

I like the guys work. Complete engine cus the broken pats are in a bag in the valley. Sounds almost made up.

Tim

[flatheadmurre]

Originally Posted by cas3

anyone have any guesses why there would be 4 springs broken? cheap springs, wild cam, wild driving, any thoughts?

One spring can break from lot´s of reasons but when 4 fail instantly i would suspect some kind of mishappening involved.

[JSeery]

Doesn't look like the engine has been run since the last assembly as there is no oil on the paper in the valley. And it most likely wouldn't run anyway with the missing and broken parts.

[cas3]

its been run for a few miles. there is some sludge in the valley, but still cleaner than most of these old motor i play with, so i suspect it was cleaned up when they did an overhaul. 60 over domed pistons, some blowby residue on the breather side of the pan. adjustable lifters show no wear in the bottom

[JSeery]

Maybe it's just me, but the cylinder walls look like a lot more than a few miles! As do the piston tops.

[cas3]

jseery you are correct. some carbon on the piston tops, one i cleaned to find the piston size. one cyl has some bad vertical scoring,so certainly would have shown bad in testing or running. and keep in mind i only have one head removed at this time. my hopes were to just run the thing for a short time to get some fresh oil pumped thru the system, check compression, and then pickle it for future use. now that its half apart i hate to just put it in storage or the minnesota swamp will kill it, but too many other irons in the fire to continue playing with a seemingly dead motor. still wonder why 4 springs broke. i have the other 21 stud with "FC" stamped in the deck, perhaps some may remember, and i have a long dial indicator so i could compare valve lift between the two motors. just eyeballing this cam looks different than some other stockers i have laying around. thanks, skip

[flatford8]

I wonder if it was stuck at some point and somebody forced it to turn. Could that break the springs?........Mark

[Talkwrench]

5T cam... Mm yes they are "pointy" this block have two freeze plugs at the back near the heads>?