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Old 10-19-2018, 10:04 AM   #1
BillEbob
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Default Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

I know, I know, I've said it before, "like hollering 'SQUIRREL' at the National Dog Show, the discussion of oil in the Model "A" but now I'm having that same friendly discussion with a friend.

Someone here made me believe that Mobil 1 was the way to go. Remembering that the P.O. said that that was the oil he had been instructed to use (by rebuilding mechanic) I went to that brand.

NOW, my friend says he believes that Valvoline VR1 Racing oil (which I DO use in my '69 Mustang) is what we need to be using because of zinc.

I argue that when Henry was building these cars mineral oil was probably the the 'oil d'jour' but he argues Penzoil was used and that it DID have zinc in it.

I still think that since we change oil every 500 miles that that makes for a VERY expensive annual oil expense!

Ok guys, I open it up to you, what do YOU think?

Bill
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:14 AM   #2
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

This has been discussed so many times it would be best to do a search and see how this has been flogged in the past. You will find every opinion possible out there, although I have never seen one recommending mineral oil.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:17 AM   #3
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

I think the cheapest multi viscosity oil at Walmart is probably just as good for an A as anything. The A does not stress it's oil very much, with controlled temps, and low surface pressures on the internal parts. But, it's your car, and who cares what I or anyone else thinks, you should do what you think is right for you.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

I agree with Corley! The A has little valve spring pressure so doesn't need Zinc but some is good. Some guys use diesel oils, not recommended by oil companies. Synthetics are good but expensive and may leak more than std. oils.
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

I have used a traditional model A oil before---- used oil (had 2 cold starts,32 miles, wasn't going to waste it)
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

I have a Model A with an engine that was rebuilt in the 60’s that we have owned for 40 years. We use Walmart 20w-50 HD oil, change every 500 miles or once a year. Also add one bottle of blue STP as last half quart. MMO used in gas.

Having said that. For the first twenty years that we owned our 29 and for the 20 plus years before that. We used 40 weight non detergent oil with STP in any Model A that we owned.

Engines much quieter after switching to the high detergent oil. Aside from noise, I don’t believe the cars new the difference.
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

I read someplace about zinc being an important additive for the Model A. So I use Valvoline VR1! And this car does not get many miles, and running the engine just the little I do gets the oil black. With that said I change it once a year. Having grown up in a household with a model A as a kid, my dad, I know, used the cheapest oil he could get. Money was hard to come by! I venture non-detergent, high viscosity and the car never had a problem. At least it was still running strong when he sold it!
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

Being newer to the hobby, I went through all the info I could find about oil/Gas/additives, including here on the Barn. When researching came to the same conclusions as the previous posters.


My opinions based on info I could find.


Research, choose what you think is best and are comfortable with. More important is changing when the oil starts getting dirty/black and change before storage. Your driving habits will determine how often you need to change. Should be at least yearly, if yearly change before storage.


Just about any detergent multi-weight detergent oil today is vastly superior to 1930s oil. Most motor wear occurs when the motor is cold, this is where multi-weight oils help. Detergents keep contaminants suspended so the contaminants are flushed during oil changes, instead of settling out of the oil and collecting in the bottom of the oil pan and other interior surfaces of the motor. Detergents do not loosen up deposits, as sometimes believed.


Additives are not needed for Model As due to the lower loads due to; weaker tappet/valve spring pressures used in the stock Model A motor, lower compression, and the lower rpms of the Model A motor. In later classic cars it is beneficial. Zinc generally was not in oil in the 30s, and was added later. There is info that too much zinc actually increases wear, so if used you should find out much zinc is in the brand/type of oil you use, and add only what is needed. Under 2000 PPM is OK. Additionally most oils of today have had Zinc engineered out, but other anti wear characteristics are engineered in. If you read the below link on independent testing, some oils without zinc outperform oils with zinc, so it is a crapshoot.


Some like to add a little Marvel Mystery Oil to the oil, for reasons I can not remember.


From my reading, current day oil is highly engineered, and additives can result in changing characteristics of the oil negatively. EXs; STP, Motor Honey, etc. - They basically thicken the oil, amongst other things. If adding a lot in 15w40, you may have changed it to 30w50. If this is your intention for a used worn out motor, OK, but perhaps using a 20W50 oil should be considered.




Here are some links on the subject, there are many more if you search here on the Barn.


https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...el+Mystery+oil
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Old 10-19-2018, 04:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

Your Choice.
The choice of oil is most important. It will determine your comfort level and sleep at night. Those are the most important factors.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:05 PM   #10
Terry, NJ
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

Just my opinion, but DON"T use a straight weight Non Detergent like SAE 40! I like Rotella 15-40 in ten qt jugs from Tractor Supply. Has plenty of zinc and works well for me. Next is the cheapest thing at Walmart. The worst oils of today are better than the best oils of 1930! The A engine was the cheapest power plant Henry or Edsel could mass produce cheaply! It ain't sophisticated! It wasn't built to last, the fact that so many of them did is more of an accident than anything else. Don't forget, The A s all made it through the depression when oil changes were the last thing anyone spent money on. Then came the war and the was no oil available to change. Just getting a annual oil change was a luxury for most of these cars.
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Old 10-19-2018, 08:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

Spot on, Terry. We molly coddel ours cars so much the people who drove them in the day would hold their bellies and double over laughing!
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillEbob View Post
I know, I know, I've said it before, "like hollering 'SQUIRREL' at the National Dog Show, the discussion of oil in the Model "A" but now I'm having that same friendly discussion with a friend.

Someone here made me believe that Mobil 1 was the way to go. Remembering that the P.O. said that that was the oil he had been instructed to use (by rebuilding mechanic) I went to that brand.

NOW, my friend says he believes that Valvoline VR1 Racing oil (which I DO use in my '69 Mustang) is what we need to be using because of zinc.

I argue that when Henry was building these cars mineral oil was probably the the 'oil d'jour' but he argues Penzoil was used and that it DID have zinc in it.

I still think that since we change oil every 500 miles that that makes for a VERY expensive annual oil expense!

Ok guys, I open it up to you, what do YOU think?

Bill

Maybe you don't want to hear this, maybe no one wants to hear this. Here is the truth absolute and simple. ANY, yes ANY oil designed for motor vehicles of the correct weight will work fine in your Model A.


ANY specific brand is an opinion as to what has worked for an individual or group of individuals and would not be mentioned if they did not have success. You want zinc, get zinc (there was no zinc in the oil in the time of the Model A). You want to add STP fine add STP. Use what ever you want, add what ever you want just get out and drive the car!
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Old 10-20-2018, 09:16 AM   #13
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Talking Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida View Post
Maybe you don't want to hear this, maybe no one wants to hear this. Here is the truth absolute and simple. ANY, yes ANY oil designed for motor vehicles of the correct weight will work fine in your Model A.


ANY specific brand is an opinion as to what has worked for an individual or group of individuals and would not be mentioned if they did not have success. You want zinc, get zinc (there was no zinc in the oil in the time of the Model A). You want to add STP fine add STP. Use what ever you want, add what ever you want just get out and drive the car!
Mike, we finally actually agree on something. (Oil) Good for us. Can't agree with you on your place to live, however! HA! (Gaters, snakes, heat, humidity, hurricanes, give me the good old northwest!)
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Old 10-20-2018, 11:25 AM   #14
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

15-40 big box store will have cheap 5q jugs.
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Old 10-20-2018, 01:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

RE:I read someplace about zinc being an important additive for the Model A.
Zinc is NOT needed and I bet 90% of people that have posted say that it is not needed. Zinc was added to prevent lifter wear when the lifter springs went to a much higher compression rate then the Model A. OH! But if it make you happy, go for it.
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Old 10-21-2018, 05:52 PM   #16
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

One of the posts above indicates that zinc still is in the Rotella-T. It is not! They changed the formulation. It's still good stuff, just not the same as it once was. I used to use it.

30 closed cab PU above has some excellent points.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

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Originally Posted by Gene F View Post
One of the posts above indicates that zinc still is in the Rotella-T. It is not! They changed the formulation. It's still good stuff, just not the same as it once was. I used to use it.

30 closed cab PU above has some excellent points.

http://www.clubhotrod.com/chevy-smal...k-content.html

This discussion states Shell just lowered the Zinc amount by Fed Govt mandate.
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Old 10-21-2018, 08:40 PM   #18
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

Quote:
Originally Posted by modela@aol.com View Post
http://www.clubhotrod.com/chevy-smal...k-content.html

This discussion states Shell just lowered the Zinc amount by Fed Govt mandate.


Post 8 links agree with the info in your link.
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Old 10-21-2018, 10:40 PM   #19
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene F View Post
One of the posts above indicates that zinc still is in the Rotella-T. It is not! They changed the formulation. It's still good stuff, just not the same as it once was. I used to use it.

30 closed cab PU above has some excellent points.
On what are you basing the statement about there now being no zinc in the Shell Rotella T4 15W40?

Please post documentation from Shell here (not hearsay posts on other forums by people that are passing on what they were told by another anonymous source).

I am posting here the last Technical Data Sheet that I got from Shell, dated 2016. Be sure to go down to the T4 section. The latest spec at that time was the CK-4.

What do you have from them that is newer that you can post here?
.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2016 Shell Rotella T TDS.pdf (544.5 KB, 12 views)
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:24 AM   #20
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Default Re: Like picking at a scab: let's discuss 'oil'

WOW!I just wanted to change my oil! Boron, Ash? What the heck is TBN? I had no idea. Zinc? Yeah, I had heard about that. It's supposed to be desirable for our flat lifters. This is what I'm told anyway. Flat lifters as compared to what? How else do you make a lifter? The further I go in pursuit of this knowledge, the confuseder I get.
Terry



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim/TX/GA View Post
On what are you basing the statement about there now being no zinc in the Shell Rotella T4 15W40?

Please post documentation from Shell here (not hearsay posts on other forums by people that are passing on what they were told by another anonymous source).

I am posting here the last Technical Data Sheet that I got from Shell, dated 2016. Be sure to go down to the T4 section. The latest spec at that time was the CK-4.

What do you have from them that is newer that you can post here?
.
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