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Old 07-31-2020, 05:17 PM   #1
Bonniewwyn
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Smile 1956 Thunderbird brake question

Our early bird has manual drum brakes. It takes a lot of foot pressure to engage the brakes, in fact sometimes I use both feet as its easier on my old knees. If I could find a hydrovac to put power brakes on the car I would ( if anyone has one PLZ advise ). I understand if I put on a dual resevoir master cyl like 1975 Vette it may help. T bird is 1" bore Vette is 1.125". Will that bigger bore help ? Obviously I could go to disc brakes but they are almost 1500$ when done. I think those use 1" bore master and smaller rear wheel cylinders ? Thanks.
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Old 07-31-2020, 05:29 PM   #2
Dobie Gillis
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

The bigger bore Vette (or whatever make) master will help, plus it's an added safety feature. If you do that you will need a slightly longer push rod to make it work properly. Adjustable push rods can be had from the hot rod suppliers (Summit, etc.) All vehicles, disc or drum, use a smaller wheel cylinder at the back, or a proportioning valve to reduce the chance of the rear brakes locking up during hard braking and causing a skid.
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Old 07-31-2020, 06:17 PM   #3
Ole Don
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

This was copied from the website of master Power Brake frequently asked questions.

What bore size do you need for manual brakes?
If you use anything larger than 1" then you will have an extremely hard pedal.The smaller the bore the more pressure that is output to the wheels.
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Old 07-31-2020, 06:58 PM   #4
miker98038
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

The vette power brake Master is 1.125", the manual master is 1.00" Thats the story right there, same as Don posted.

I've got a hydro boost unit (originally from a Diesel Oldsmobile IIRC) on my 55 bird. It was built by a guy named Paul, must be 15 years ago. He custom made an adapter to mount it to a "Vette" style master and the firewall. It took a bit of going back and forth for the adaptor, and he made more than one. I think he dropped out of direct sales, and by now has probably sold.

The hydro units are really light pressure, like an old Chrysler power brake car.

Prior to that I had the "oem style" booster from one of the bird suppliers. They leave you with a single master, but they work fine. IIRC, the mounting holes, etc. are already there, and you can buy the lines, etc. I think that would be the better solution on a drum car combined with proper maintenance on the whole brake system. If the brake lines are original, I'd look hard at them too.

Other than that, I think the early Mustang guys have some hydro units, might talk to one of them
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Old 07-31-2020, 07:13 PM   #5
Dana Barlow
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

With out power brakes; To mod is balance thing !! Bore size vs pedal arm;How long is the arm. Making more PSI go to wheel,can be done two ways,other then just adding both feet;
As the piston size get smaller in the master cyl + more PSI goes to wheel for same amount of foot use.=but you pay for this extra PSI with the pedal moving more/so gets closer to floor faster. The other way extra PSI can go to wheel,is if pedal arm is made longer,that will add more PSI for same foot use+but you pay for it with foot moves move an closer to floor.
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Old 07-31-2020, 07:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

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The early bird master cylinders were the same with or without power brakes so if you go with a factory set up it's one thing you don't have to change.
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Old 07-31-2020, 08:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

There are smaller diameter boosters available that should clear the battery. I would check in to one with dual booster diaphragms.
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:22 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

a lot of brake problems come from turning down brake drums and the shoes no longer fit.
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

Clearance on the battery isn't so much a problem, it's the hood latch. I've seen some automatic cars with the master moved over to where my clutch is, then the battery dealt with. I don't know what mods went on under the dash for that.

Modifying the brake pedal is possible, but not easy to improve leverage. Mine is shortened (the hydro unit supplies the pressure), and lowered. Gives me more leg room, same with the clutch. But stopping without boost requires a does of adrenaline.

Last edited by miker98038; 07-31-2020 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:51 AM   #10
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonniewwyn View Post
Our early bird has manual drum brakes. It takes a lot of foot pressure to engage the brakes, in fact sometimes I use both feet as its easier on my old knees. If I could find a hydrovac to put power brakes on the car I would ( if anyone has one PLZ advise ). I understand if I put on a dual resevoir master cyl like 1975 Vette it may help. T bird is 1" bore Vette is 1.125". Will that bigger bore help ? Obviously I could go to disc brakes but they are almost 1500$ when done. I think those use 1" bore master and smaller rear wheel cylinders ? Thanks.
We have done a lot of dual master upgrades in my 1952-59 Ford Group on the H.A.M.B. the unit of choice has been the master used in 1967-68 Mustang drum/drum cars https://leedbrakes.com/i-19296570-hy...9-mustang.html
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:37 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

I agree with Jeff, keep it all Ford. The drum/drum master from a Mustang or Fairlane should work well and the mounting spacing is the same, 3.20" or 3.25".
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:00 AM   #12
Ole Don
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

Part of the trouble is when the US redesigned brake shoes with less or no asbestos in the friction material, pedal pressure went way up. Now, many years latter, we seem to miss-remember how much pedal pressure was required in the old days. Try a master with a 7/8 bore.
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Old 08-01-2020, 11:48 AM   #13
Bonniewwyn
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

Would that be early Mustang and pre '60 fairlane. ?
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Old 08-02-2020, 05:21 AM   #14
oldbird55
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

You may need a new rear brake hose.
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:22 PM   #15
rotorwrench
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

You never know how well modern replacement parts are going to work. Another problem is how well do the shoes fit the drums and were they properly centered. Back in the day, brake shops had shoe arcing machines so as to get a perfect fit with shoes and drums. With that and proper shoe to drum distance dimensions from careful adjustments could get the brakes to work well enough. They could be locked up with one foot on the pedal in most cases. They didn't need proportioning valves since they had larger diameter brake cylinders on the front than the rear so as to give them the best braking action where it was required. With disks a person needs a proportioning valve set up.
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Old 08-03-2020, 01:09 PM   #16
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Default Re: 1956 Thunderbird brake question

Another upgrade is finding a later model Ford that uses the same brake shoes and convert your manual brakes to self adjusting by using the self adjuster kits and hardware.
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