valve seat cutter

[Ronnie]

Originally Posted by Ggmac

There's a carbide cutter just like that that works great . The pilots are ' made of steel and center cut on each end to be turned to size . So you need to find a guy with a lathe or open up a sacrificial guide to one of the pilot size you get . Just use the guide as part of the tool .
A bit more work but ,,,

The sacrificial guide isn't the answer to make it work. What would the new machined guide size be be? A stock guide is already 11/32"id. Also they are nowhere near close to fitting the block correctly to enable you to get a repeatable seat whatsoever. You can be guaranteed then you install the guide you want to use on final assembly it won't have the same runout after the cobbled together sacrificial guide is removed for the last time before assembly. You have been given some sound advice from fellows who have done a few valve lobs on a flathead. I have used neway for 25+ years and it produces a fine serviceable seat without any trouble at all if you have the correct program in place in regards to pilot systems.This venture is your engine and your money and you may do as you please.

R

[Art Newland]

I'll get my hands on my friends B&D setup and see what it will take to make it serviceable.

[Ggmac]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

The sacrificial guide isn't the answer to make it work. What would the new machined guide size be be? A stock guide is already 11/32"id. Also they are nowhere near close to fitting the block correctly to enable you to get a repeatable seat whatsoever. You can be guaranteed then you install the guide you want to use on final assembly it won't have the same runout after the cobbled together sacrificial guide is removed for the last time before assembly. You have been given some sound advice from fellows who have done a few valve lobs on a flathead. I have used neway for 25+ years and it produces a fine serviceable seat without any trouble at all if you have the correct program in place in regards to pilot systems.This venture is your engine and your money and you may do as you please.

R

The Sioux and black and decker pilots are tapered and expand like an internal pilot , using a 2 piece guide centers the cutter . I see your concerns about cutting the Chinese cutter pilots . Didn't have any problems when I used them , but I used old uncleaned guides that were a pain to get out and needed to be tapped in. All the seats were lapped after and were centered .
I'm not sure if using a sacrificial pilot would give the same results.

[Ronnie]

This is how runout is measured not by lapping.
https://goodson.com/products/valve-seat-run-out-gauge

R

[Ggmac]

Originally Posted by Ronnie

This is how runout is measured not by lapping.
https://goodson.com/products/valve-seat-run-out-gauge

R

Ex machinist here , long retired , yes I have that tool and many more some older some newer all accomplish the same . The older you get the more you realize a proper lap is the last word into how the seat was cut . See the play on words , last word . Get it .
I went back out to the shop after thinking about what you were saying about the sacrificial guide . So I understand why it would seem to be a no no , but along your same loose fitting guide , your basically saying that a valve spring guide assembly would have the same tolerance, i.e. Sloppy , not concentric.
Just because I'm new to the forum and haven't posted much , don't assume I'm new to machine shop practices . Still have most of my tooling , maybe too much as time runs out .
Sorry if this is a little off , the only reason I've been on the I pad is I'm currently not feeling great , ok not even feeling good . I like the challenges and work around or tool making for the work around .
No funny happy faces not acronyms, no brag , just the truth . Remember what show character said , No brag ,just fact ? Hint it was a western .
Gary

[Ggmac]

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Originally Posted by Ronnie

This is how runout is measured not by lapping.
https://goodson.com/products/valve-seat-run-out-gauge

R

I don't know how to post photos or links , but I just went to the machine shop and picked the first available and took a pic . If you can post it for me I'd appreciate it . My email is [email protected]
I have learned how to email pics .
Thanks , Gary

[Art Newland]

A tutorial on posting pictures

https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23184

[Art Newland]

Links are easier, just copy and past them in.

[Art Newland]

Pictures

[Ronnie]

Here is a cut and paste from neway.
http://www.newaytoolsales.com/seatguiderest.htm
Note they say with their setup no lapping is required.

R

[tubman]

I looked at the "Neway" system a couple of years ago. It looks like a good system, but with all of the parts required to do a "3-angle" valve job, the setup for a flathead was almost $500 with freight. For less than $40, I may look at the system on eBay just for giggles. (No wonder I never have any money for the "good stuff".)

It's made in India, not China. I think there may be a big difference. A couple of years ago, I wanted to buy the best metal scribe that I could, and after doing a lot of checking around, I ended up purchasing one made in India.

[Ronnie]

Hey tub isn't it amazing where the money goes. I have been down a few rabbit holes myself.Cars,Guns,welding,fly fishing and much more.The crazy part is when you are done there is usually a box of stuff left over that doesn't have appeal even at a swap meet."LOL".

Go Jets GO.

R

[tubman]

Yep Ronnie, but it sure is fun, ain't it? I have advanced in years enough to be in my "puttering period" and like foolin' around with stuff like this (as long as it isn't heavy).

[flatheadmurre]

Stuff have a bad habbit of piling up...and to many distractions doesn´t make it easier...i like old electronics, cars and basicly anything that has some nice engineering in it...
Here´s a pic of how the neway cutters look like if your not familiar with them.
And the flathead pilot corner next to the PH-2000...several generations of cutting systems from the old winona to more modern 3-angle cutters.
The blade cutter on the left with a live pilot is an old VLC.

[supereal]

At our shop we use a Peterson machine to install valve seats. Cutting must be exact to retain the seats in place. Nearly all blocks we see have had valve seats done over the years, so we replace all seats to restore the necessary condition.

[Ggmac]

Thanks Art for posting the pics . That's my front ( wife's garage ) overtaken by my container hurricane disaster , and a pic of an old tool , well used that Ronnies linked to .
Measuring tools are a means to the final product . If the final product is true it can be tested . Either valves with a concentric lapped seat or a crank / bearing clearance with Plastigauge
Thanks again

[v8fordman]

Is the tool on thread number 1 for sale? I would be interested in it.

[Art Newland]

Originally Posted by v8fordman

Is the tool on thread number 1 for sale? I would be interested in it.

It was on my local craigslist,
https://bellingham.craigslist.org/

[Art Newland]

I picked up the Black and Decker set from my fiend. It doesn't have the Ford specific pilots (that replace the guide and lifter) but it does have a "collet" style pilot that fits in the guide.

[GOSFAST]

Originally Posted by Art Newland

I picked up the Black and Decker set from my fiend. It doesn't have the Ford specific pilots (that replace the guide and lifter) but it does have a "collet" style pilot that fits in the guide.

You don't want to use the lifter hole when doing any seat work, only the guide hole!

If you don't have a "dedicated" Flathead pilot simply knurl one or two old guides for a "snug" fit in the (guide) bore and use a conventional .343" pilot, simple.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a couple shots of some pilots. The left shows a pair of "select-fit" for the Flathead guide holes, the right shows a conventional pilot with a Flathead guide. Our tops measure .437" on all our valve tooling, this is the original "Kwik-Way" size we began using for some extra rigidity!