flathead 60

[fritzz13]

hi,looking into buying a ford flathead 60.looking for any info on this engine.is it a good choice for a early rod?

[Fred A]

It better be a lightweight rod with special attention to the gear choices. There is little torque to spare to pull a car out of bad engineering choices. I have a 60 about forth in line as an AV8-60 roadster project. Already have all the components. Having had one before there is a special sense of how to make it work, but if you do it wrong you may not have a fully functioning hotrod. Most guys would advise against it. The 60 is pretty pricey to build and parts can be tough to find. Good Luck: Fred A

[fritzz13]

the engine i found is a fresh rebuild with edmunds 2 carb intake with early block lettered edlbrock heads ready to run,includes tranny,what you think fred a.

[3738]

I love the V8 60's, got (4) or (5) of them myself.

Your decision will be based on how much it cost and what vehicle it goes into.

I live in the flat lands of the Calif Bay Area, so I have no trouble getting around with my stock V8 60 with the stock 4:44 rear end in my 37 Tudor.

I can tell you this, when you go to a car show or get together, you will get a lot more attention than the more common run of the mill larger engines.

[fritzz13]

thanks for the input 3738,do you think 4k is a good price for this engine.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

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I built a few of them 60's. A friend had 1/2 doz Midgets with the 60 in them. I got a chance to drive one on a horse race track in Bangor Me. about 10 yr's ago. That was alot of fun. Of course those Midgets didn't weigh much. Walt

[3738]

I don't know what to say about pricing, I'll let others chime in on that, as all of mine are stock.

However, I'd say for $4k, I'd want some kind of guarantee...

[fritzz13]

i was told they were only good in midget cars or crackerbox boats.

[fritzz13]

the engine after rebuild is suppose to be rated at 85hp.

[Ol' Ron]

Had a friend with a T roadster,powered by a 50 hp engine had a clay smith cam, heads and dual carbs. Car had a Columbia rear, believe me this thing could move.

[flatjack9]

If it's a good engine, you could never build it for $4K.

[fritzz13]

thanks guys,this will be my first flathead,think i will go for it.

[36tbird]

Here's a thread that might give you some added info, http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=759180. Also, you might search v-8 60's installed in MG-TD's. That was a popular swap.

I have a 60 that I am starting to think about powering a modified for a very future project.

[jimTN]

It is a great engine for putting in a T, closed Model A's or anything later are a little heavy.

[MARVIN, CT]

Put one in my '52 MGTD with a t5 gearbox and 3.9 gears in the rear end. Quiet happy with it. Marvin,ct

[LQQKER]

What components were required to put the t5 behind the v8 60. Thinking about putting this motor in an A roadster.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Do not underestimate the little V8 60 HP engine. Many have been needlessly removed over the years in favor of the 85 HP and later higher HP Flathead engines. Richard Willim once told me that a 60 HP engine can be upgraded to 100 HP without that much effort. He also wrote a book on the 60 that has a lot of great information. You can order this book on this website: http://www.willimvintageengines.com/

I also met a guy at a car show here in MD who built a Model A pickup for his wife that is powered by a little 60 HP. It looked great, sounded strong, and ran very well. A few pictures....

[36tbird]

Yo Marvin, what T-5 do you have? That is, what is first gear? And, how does the little car cruise? mpg, rpm at 70 (if you get it going that fast)

Like I said above, with swap meet season coming up, I think I'm going to start lining up parts for a modified T project. Thanks in advance.

[Torchie]

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Do not underestimate the little V8 60 HP engine. Many have been needlessly removed over the years in favor of the 85 HP and later higher HP Flathead engines. Richard Willim once told me that a 60 HP engine can be upgraded to 100 HP without that much effort. He also wrote a book on the 60 that has a lot of great information. You can order this book on this website: http://www.willimvintageengines.com/

I also met a guy at a car show here in MD who built a Model A pickup for his wife that powered by a little 60 HP. It looked great, sounded strong, and ran very well. A few pictures....

This man is the go to guy for V-8 60's. Started with his dad building them Now I believe that he and his son are rebuilding them. Yes they were used alot in boats and midgets but nothing wrong with them in a hotrod as well. Buy his book. It is well worth it.
As far as the price goes $4000.00 doesn't seem out of line based on what I have heard that it costs to have some one do a complete rebuild on a big flathead.

[MARVIN, CT]

My t-5 is from an '87 Mustang/Capri 2.3, has 3.97 1st gear, 0.79 5th gear. It bolts up to an adaptor that a friend made up for me. The adaptor bolts up to an 85 hp bell housing. Don't have a speedometer or tach hooked up yet, but I can keep up with the traffic if I want to. Marvin,ct

[feelsharp]

Flat-O-Products, Salem Oregon, 503-364-2934 sells an adaptor to bolt a T-5 to a V8-60 block, also supplies throwout bearing, clutch arm and 9" clutch. If your engine has a 8 1/2" clutch set into the flywheel, suggest you machine off the flange to fit a 9" clutch.
All their products worked well for me on a 60 to T coupe project.

[russcc]

Great power plant in a light car. Edlebrock's 60 powered midget used to eat the Offy's lunch. Built by Bobby Meeks.

[3quarter32]

A 60hp with a T5 is in my 3/4 scale roadster. Kinda low on torque on take off, but clutch is a bit touchy. Runs out great thru the gears.
My daughter has quite a few new parts for the 60. Trying to get a list of bearing sizes, and piston sizes from her now. I know there is one set of piston/rod assemblies ready to go. There were at least 10 cams. gasket sets, water pumps, and one cast block. Problem is 1700 miles to fetch the stuff back to Okie land.

[john hamilton]

Lowest price I've seen lately for a rebuilt 60 was $3,750 without all the accessories. $4,000 seems reasonable. Everybody says they are expensive and you can compare this to an 85 and see why. They're expensive because they are cool.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by russcc

Great power plant in a light car. Edlebrock's 60 powered midget used to eat the Offy's lunch. Built by Bobby Meeks.

And the B&G Ford powered 22 car used to eat the Edelbrock midget. They ran 30% nitro and the 22 ran straight alcohol. Circa Dec. 1958 Saugus.

[36tbird]

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3/4, do you have a tach on that little deuce? I am just curious what rpm range these 60's are comfortable running at. My 8BA hums at 2600 at cruise and that is the number I've always heard is where the "big" flatheads like to cruise at. I understood that the 60's were meant to run at higher rpm to compensate for the 4.11 rear gears.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

My mind is a little fuzzy on this. I know the 37-8-9 engine had a smaller crank than the 40 engine. I also know the the early 60 had a smaller trans and a smaller clutch spline that the 40. I guess my question is, does the 85hp trans bolt right to the 40 engine with out moderfing for the starter? If I remember right when I was a kid 15 yr's old, my friends father had a 40 pickup with a 60 in it. It didn't take us kids long to ruin that engine. I remember putting an 85 hp in the truck and not touching the trans. Does that sound right. Walt

[37 Coupe]

Originally Posted by 36tbird

3/4, do you have a tach on that little deuce? I am just curious what rpm range these 60's are comfortable running at. My 8BA hums at 2600 at cruise and that is the number I've always heard is where the "big" flatheads like to cruise at. I understood that the 60's were meant to run at higher rpm to compensate for the 4.11 rear gears.

I think it was just the opposite. Ford didn't use the 4:11 they had to go to the 4:44 behind the 60 hp to get it to rev more to compensate for lack of torque in the heavy cars,trucks even went to a 4:54 I believe.

[Gary in La.]

Walt, the back side of the '37-'40 V8-60 engines are the same. The V8-60 '40 sideshift trans was different than the 85.

[36tbird]

37, I pulled the "4.11" ratio out of the air 'cuz I couldn't remember what the correct original stock ratios were. So, what is the rpm for the desired torque range of a 60?

[3quarter32]

Sorry 36tbird. don't have a tach in it. It had an old Sun tack, but left the sending unit out in Reno.

[3738]

IIRC - the 85 trans will bolt to a 60, but you have to cut the "cup" off the side of the trans to clear the starter bendix...

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by Gary in La.

Walt, the back side of the '37-'40 V8-60 engines are the same. The V8-60 '40 sideshift trans was different than the 85.

Gary, I'm trying to remember 60yr's ago, In think this 40 pickup of my friends father had a floor shift. But I'm sure the 40 cars with the 60engine had colume shift. Did the 40 cars with the 60 have the 1-3/8 clutch spline or did thay have the smaller spline like the earlier 60"s? I'm sure us 15yrear old kids didn't change any clutch to put the 85 in to that 40 pickup to replace the 60. Walt

[Dale Fairfax]

Just remember: All that talk about how well they performed in a midget racer has no bearing on how well it will work on the street. The racing engines had VERY high compression ratios and ran on methanol (plus nitro in some cases); they were cammed to produce peak H.P. at something like 4800-5000 R.P.M. and geared to do that while racing. In a 900-1000# car they could run that way repeatedley for 10 or 20 laps on a 1/4 mile track---which was all of 2 1/2 -5 miles. They might get away with 2 weeks worth of racing before they had to be pulled down for new bearings, rings and maybe a valve job.


You want to run one on the street in a car weighing double (or more) what the race car did with only half the horsepower and you don't want to tear it down for "freshening" everytime you turn around. It has less low end torque than a Model A 4 banger and off- idle torque is what makes a car drivable on the street. I submit that after you do every "streetable" hop up trick you can think of, you will NOT enjoy driving anything more than a stripped "T" speedster with that engine. I'm sure, for 4 large, you can find a good full-size (239-255) Flathead which you'll be a lot happier with.

[Gary in La.]

Walt,
In 1940 both the side shift and the floor shift trans had the 9" clutch and the bigger input shaft. The gear sets in these trans were the same as the 85. Putting a "hot" V8-60 in a street car was best served using the commercial trans and 9" clutch and flywheel. And yes as 3738 said the 85 trans would work if you did some cutting on it.

[MARVIN, CT]

If I recall correctly, using a smaller gear reduction type starter and no cutting of the 85 is needed. Marvin,ct

[KiWinUS]

Correct Marvin

[36tbird]

Yo 3/4, if you need a sending unit check with these folks, http://williamsons.com.

[3quarter32]

Thanks tbird. My daughter did send the sending unit for the Sun tach. Bad thing is that I re-did the dash for the gauges I had, and no room for it now.

[36tbird]

Hang it off the column, old school. That's the way I have it on my '36 pickup. Williamson's might have the buckets and mount, too. Or, it is always a cool piece for another old car. Or, if you are interested in getting rid of it, please PM me.

[3738]

Dale Fairfax stated;

"You want to run one on the street in a car weighing double (or more) what the race car did with only half the horsepower and you don't want to tear it down for "freshening" everytime you turn around. It has less low end torque than a Model A 4 banger and off- idle torque is what makes a car drivable on the street. I submit that after you do every "streetable" hop up trick you can think of, you will NOT enjoy driving anything more than a stripped "T" speedster with that engine. I'm sure, for 4 large, you can find a good full-size (239-255) Flathead which you'll be a lot happier with".

Everyone has their opinion, but other than needing new head gaskets, I'm still running the original V8 60 engine in my 37 Tudor and have NOT had to tear it down for "freshening". And yes, I have an 85 in my 38 Coupe, but I couldn't be any happier than every time I prefer to drive my V8 60 and all the attention it gets over the more common (239-255's).

If it was only about going faster, you might as well get a modern small block....

3738 - Owner of (5) V8 60's and loving it!

[GSCOV]

I have one I will be selling. Complete engine, trans, radiator, exhaust and related parts. Re-powering a 1940 Ford pickup. This all has 42,000 original miles and runs like a top, super quiet, shifts like butter. $3500 Firm. Still in vehicle, come and drive. Greg in CT. (860) 913-4680

[Dale Fairfax]

If you already have one (or more) and you love it (them) for the novelty, fine. Have at it. But the original poster said he had a chance to buy one for a "rod". I still don't believe it's agood choice for that purpose.

As far as my bit about "freshening", I'm guilty of a grammatical or syntax error: What I meant was that the racers who ran their "60"s at 5000 R.P.M. race after race had to freshen them every couple weeks. I doubt you run yours that hard even occasionally.

Originally Posted by 3738

Dale Fairfax stated;

"You want to run one on the street in a car weighing double (or more) what the race car did with only half the horsepower and you don't want to tear it down for "freshening" everytime you turn around. It has less low end torque than a Model A 4 banger and off- idle torque is what makes a car drivable on the street. I submit that after you do every "streetable" hop up trick you can think of, you will NOT enjoy driving anything more than a stripped "T" speedster with that engine. I'm sure, for 4 large, you can find a good full-size (239-255) Flathead which you'll be a lot happier with".

Everyone has their opinion, but other than needing new head gaskets, I'm still running the original V8 60 engine in my 37 Tudor and have NOT had to tear it down for "freshening". And yes, I have an 85 in my 38 Coupe, but I couldn't be any happier than every time I prefer to drive my V8 60 and all the attention it gets over the more common (239-255's).

If it was only about going faster, you might as well get a modern small block....

3738 - Owner of (5) V8 60's and loving it!

[fritzz13]

thanks for all the input guys.i know some of you disagree about this engine but i am not after big hp.i been there and done that in my younger days.i have decided to purchase the engine and plan on putting it into my 28 coupe.would i be able to keep the stock running gear or will have to make some changes,any info will help,thanks guys.

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by fritzz13

would i be able to keep the stock running gear or will have to make some changes,any info will help,thanks guys.

Post Edit: i am too poor to afford a V8 but i have heard from people that the early V8 transmission bolts to the 28 driveshaft, not the V8 to the 28 bellhousing as this post previously said. Hope that was helpful...

[3738]

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Here 's a neat V8 60 with Ardun OHV heads....

The Roy Brizio Street Rods-built ’27 track nose roadster of John Mumford is the 2013 Grand National Roadster Show winner crowned America’s Most Beautiful Roadster [AMBR]. This is a first for Mumford [though he owns the Ala Kart AMBR winner from the 50s], a second AMBR win for Roy’s shop, and the third AMBR win in the Brizio family as Roy’s father Andy won the award in 1970. Powered by a V8-60 with an extremely rare Ardun overhead conversion, the roadster was originally started by drag racer Kelly Brown many years ago. The nose, tail pan and belly pan are the work of tin bending master Steve Davis, with assist over the years by SoCal Speed Shop and Pete Eastwood. After being sold to Mumford, the decision was made to put to use one of the two sets of V8-60 Ardun heads collecting dust in his large collection of vintage speed equipment. Brizio’s shop finished the car, with upholstery by Sid Chavers. This is a unique AMBR winner as it is the first to be made up entirely of vintage components, with nothing on the car dating after about 1952. A couple of the judges HOT ROD talked to said it is not so much a statement that vintage is the new trend as it was the car best meeting the criteria of “beautiful.” We’ll see next year if this signals a trend toward strictly vintage AMBR winners or not.

[fritzz13]

my 60

[Bassman/NZ]

That's purdy!

[fritzz13]

thanks bassmam/nz