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Old 03-23-2023, 11:19 PM   #1
izze
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Default Water pump shaft removal

I'm having difficulty removing the shaft from my water pump. I was watching this video where the shaft was removed with all the front packing still in place.

HERE

I have the front cup, felt, washer and bushing removed. The sleeve, back washer and felt cup are still in place. The shaft pulls out roughly 3/4". Then stops. I've put a nut on the end of the shaft, and whacked it for a while. Which results in it jamming up and no longer spins. I can push it back forward and it will spin again.

I don't have a press. Not sure how to remove this shaft. Any advice is appreciated.
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Old 03-24-2023, 07:45 AM   #2
Randall
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

did you remove the key from shaft? also loosen pack nut and clean the shaft before you try to remove
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Old 03-24-2023, 08:08 AM   #3
izze
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

Yep, key is removed. And the packing nut is loosened. The shaft is pretty grimy. I'll try cleaning it up. Good idea.

The front packing can only move forward, correct? I'm wondering if I should try to push the sleeve, washer and cup forward somehow?
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Old 03-24-2023, 10:35 AM   #4
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

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Originally Posted by izze View Post
Yep, key is removed. And the packing nut is loosened. The shaft is pretty grimy. I'll try cleaning it up. Good idea.

The front packing can only move forward, correct? I'm wondering if I should try to push the sleeve, washer and cup forward somehow?

izze - I just went thought his less than a month ago rebuilding a leaking water pump.

Once you loosen the packing nut the shaft is free to slide forwards and backwards. But the fit is tight. Often on older shafts crud builds up at the front of the shaft (below the pulley) and on the shaft where it enters the rear bushing (underneath the packing nut). That crud will keep the shaft from sliding rearwards. Take some acetone or BrakeClean and thoroughly clean the shaft. If you have some built up corrosion take some fine sandpaper and clean up the shaft, then clean it again with solvent. It WILL slide backwards and out once you get it clean enough.

You should not try to remove the front packing with the shaft in place. The fit of the metal retaining cups is very close to the shaft, and you may damage the shaft in trying to get it out. Rather, get the shaft out, then use a long punch to go through the rear cup (of the front bearing) to tap the front cup out, then remove the front packing, washer, bearing, rear washer and rear packing. Rear cup of the front bearing will then tap out to the front. With that larger opening you can get a larger drift in from the front to press out the rear bushing.

A thought - some water pumps have a keeper collar on the shaft between the front of the front bearing and the pulley, this is to adjust forward play. If you have one of those then it needs to be removed to get the shaft out. Kind of obvious when you see it, though.

If your shaft is that badly crudded up then your impeller is likely corroded also. Suggest you consider a new stainless shaft and impeller assembly.

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Old 03-24-2023, 10:59 AM   #5
izze
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

Thanks for the advice. Truly appreciated!

I went out this morning to look at the shaft with fresh eyes. There is a lot of buildup under the packing nut. The front of the shaft near the pully is nice and clean. I will do my best to clean the shaft under the packing nut, and report back with the results.

Any advice on the best way to remove the thrust collar without a press? I'm thinking about drilling a hole in my workbench just big enough for the collar. Then hammering it out with a socket extension. Not sure if that is a horrible idea.
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Old 03-24-2023, 12:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

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Quote:
Originally Posted by izze View Post
Thanks for the advice. Truly appreciated!

I went out this morning to look at the shaft with fresh eyes. There is a lot of buildup under the packing nut. The front of the shaft near the pully is nice and clean. I will do my best to clean the shaft under the packing nut, and report back with the results.

Any advice on the best way to remove the thrust collar without a press? I'm thinking about drilling a hole in my workbench just big enough for the collar. Then hammering it out with a socket extension. Not sure if that is a horrible idea.
Hammering is not usually a good idea on cast parts. Keep in mind that you'll also need to press the new rear bushing into the housing when you reassemble. This might be a good job to take to a local auto machine shop to have done. If you are in a local Model A club (which is a good idea for anyone with a Model A) then there should be a member with a small press that could do it for you. It doesn't need to be a hydraulic press, an arbor press would work well if you can get the clearance you need. You could use this as your excuse to get a press... very handy tool to have.

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Old 03-24-2023, 12:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

The thrust collar should just come off after loosening the set screw holding it.
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Old 03-24-2023, 12:51 PM   #8
izze
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

Thanks again for the advice JayJay. I needed someone to tell me not to hammer on the pump

Sorry Bob. I meant the thrust washer at the base of the pump housing.

Reaching out to the club now to see if there is anyone who could help with a press. Also rolling around a few ideas of mounting a bottle jack to try an press it out myself. Again, maybe not a good idea. But better then hammering!
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Old 03-24-2023, 02:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

Ok, I assume you are talking about the rear bushing as the thrust washer
should just fall off the shaft.
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Old 03-24-2023, 03:13 PM   #10
izze
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

My apologies Bob. I'm still learning. I'm jumping straight into the deep end!

You are correct. I need to remove the bushing. And install the leakless version.

As you can tell my the image. I was able to get the shaft out just now.
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Old 03-24-2023, 03:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

Glad you got the shaft out. Looks to me like the rear bushing may have been "painted" in place. More reason to use a press to get it out. You might try dissolving the paint at that bushing/housing interface with acetone to help.



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Old 03-24-2023, 03:30 PM   #12
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

I think you may want to use some spacers to support the casting when you press in the new bushing. The casting doesn't like sharp blows, or stress. Suggest you locate access to an arbor press, or a hydraulic press, and leave the hammer in the tool box.
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Old 03-24-2023, 10:10 PM   #13
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

I might add that you should check the casting for hairline cracks, especially where the bushing is pressed in at the back and around the four mounting holes.
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Old 03-24-2023, 11:28 PM   #14
izze
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

I picked up a press from harbor freight. Rear bushing came out without any issue. Right Tool for the right job.

I checked the housing for cracks. Now I just need to put the new parts in. Thank you all for the advice. Hope I can get it all put together without any problems!
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Old 03-25-2023, 12:07 AM   #15
Brentwood Bob
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

6 inch pipe nipple thru the nose end might give you the support you need.
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Old 03-25-2023, 02:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob View Post
6 inch pipe nipple thru the nose end might give you the support you need.
That would be 6 inches long, not diameter..

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Old 03-25-2023, 08:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

Now going back together give some thought on how best to create "The pump of your dreams."

One option is to go entirely stock: buy a rebuild kit and use the original style packing gland on either a steel or stainless steel shaft. Stainless has a lot to recommend but the tendency for stainless shafts is to run "small." Something about how stainless shafting in that size is produced. Buying this as a kit usually assures that the parts will go together well (i.e. the press fit between shaft and impeller is critical - most drill and add an additional "keeper pin."

Another option involves using a "lip seal" augmented rear bearing. Lip seals work, and some rear bearings have "double lip seals" (doublegood) If you find your lip seal fails and the pump is leaking you can add standard packing and keep the car on the road.

Another option involves replacement of the front Timken bearing/sleeve with a Timken needle bearing/hardened sleeve combination which together gives longer service (sealed bearing) Difficulties can be found adapting the "skimpy" stainless shafts to this. "Knurling" the shaft under the sleeve and using Locktite will compensate. This assembly design "captivates" the water pump shaft and requires a press for assembly/disassembly.

Best advice - read up on the options. A good place to start is Vince Falter's MOST EXCELLENT SITE where he discusses most everything I've said above - and some things I forgot. Check out the pages beginning at https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/originalwpshaft.htm


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Old 03-26-2023, 08:41 AM   #18
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

The problem with going original is that most A'ers have a thing about greasing the water pump bearing. Their thing is to continually over-grease the rear bushing assembly. The results of doing this is over time the excess grease in the pump bearing goes into the cooling system. Removing grease in the cooling system does not work with normal flushing practices. This could be the cause for many of the overheating problems posted in this forum. My preference is to go leakless, one less thing to worry about.
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Old 03-26-2023, 07:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

Coming back to report the outcome. Leakless rebuild looks great, and no more leaks. Thanks for all the advice!
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Old 03-26-2023, 09:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: Water pump shaft removal

Looks good but I think the point on the thrust washer should go where the arrow is.
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