Tremec T170 Transmission Universal Joint—Is it a stock Model A part?

[shew01]

I posted in a separate thread that I need to replace my universal joint. It just occurred to me that my Tremec T170 transmission my not use a stock Model A universal joint. Can anyone tell me for sure?









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[kenparker0703]

Shew, if the one pictured is the one that came out of your car, behind your F150 tranny, then a stock Model A Ujoint from any of the dealers will work fine.

[Benson]

1. The mounting bolt looks to be bent and damaged bolt makes me wonder if the special washer (with the locating notch) AND lock washer were correctly installed.

2. Maybe the output shaft threaded hole in rear transmission shaft is now stripped or was stripped when bolt was originally installed?

3. Is the threaded hole in shaft deep enough to tighten down the U-joint and hold it from moving around? Is bolt too long and bottoms out in output shaft?

4. The special washer is likely still inside the U joint but is possibly damaged due to the bolt coming loose!

https://modelastore.com/transmission...roduct_id=3676

[shew01]

Originally Posted by kenparker0703

Shew, if the one pictured is the one that came out of your car, behind your F150 tranny, then a stock Model A Ujoint from any of the dealers will work fine.

Thanks for the response. It is the one that was in my car.


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[shew01]

Originally Posted by Benson

1. The mounting bolt looks to be bent and damaged bolt makes me wonder if the special washer (with the locating notch) AND lock washer were correctly installed.

2. Maybe the output shaft threaded hole in rear transmission shaft is now stripped or was stripped when bolt was originally installed?

3. Is the threaded hole in shaft deep enough to tighten down the U-joint and hold it from moving around? Is bolt too long and bottoms out in output shaft?

4. The special washer is likely still inside the U joint but is possibly damaged due to the bolt coming loose!

https://modelastore.com/transmission...roduct_id=3676

I did not find a washer at all when I took it apart. I only found the mangled bolt.




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[Kurt in NJ]

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not enough lubrication either
is the washer still in the ujoint

[rotorwrench]

The end of the output looks like it has something on there. Possibly the way the end of the shaft was cut? The OEM type mainshaft on a model A transmission is flat there.

[Bob C]

I agree with rotorwrench. Also the splines look worn as the female part looks
twice as wide as the male part.

[shew01]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

not enough lubrication either
is the washer still in the ujoint

Agreed. I’ve been greasing the universal every 1000 miles with a couple of pumps from the grease gun, but I was really surprised to see the lack of grease in the cavity. (This is the first time I’ve had it apart, and I had no idea of how big the cavity is.) A few days ago, I saw a Paul Shinn video where he says he uses 6 pumps of grease. I plan to use more grease when I get this back together.

No, the washer is not in the joint, and it’s not in the end of the torque tube either. Maybe someone omitted it during the last assembly.


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[shew01]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The end of the output looks like it has something on there. Possibly the way the end of the shaft was cut? The OEM type mainshaft on a model A transmission is flat there.

Is that because this is a T170 transmission, instead of a stock transmission? I have no idea if that is part of the conversion process or not.


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[shew01]

Originally Posted by Bob C

I agree with rotorwrench. Also the splines look worn as the female part looks
twice as wide as the male part.

Could that be because this is a T170 transmission?


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[shew01]

Originally Posted by kenparker0703

Shew, if the one pictured is the one that came out of your car, behind your F150 tranny, then a stock Model A Ujoint from any of the dealers will work fine.

Ken, you know a LOT more about the T170 transmission. Should there be a special washer bolted into the transmission output shaft?


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[Kurt in NJ]

have you looked for debris in the front of the driveshaft, you should at least look at the front driveshaft bearing to see if it also suffered from the lack of lubrication, and to clean out the debris contaminated grease.
it also looks to me that the splines on the transmission look different from what a stock main shaft looks like, if there is rotational play in the spline fit it will repeat the loss of the bolt and washer .

[kenparker0703]

The back end of the transmission output shaft should be (must be) perfekly flat. No ridges, no burrs. A thick washer (like the one shown in Bensons post) goes against the transmission shaft. The tab on that wahser fits snuggly into one of the splines of the tranny shaft - that keeps it from rotating - very important. Then the lockwasher. Then the bolt.


My guess on the problem is someone forgot the thick flat washer. As a result the bolt bottomed out in the hole/threads, and the ujoint was not TIGHT against the output shaft. Thus a tiny bit of wiggle that get worse and mo worse until you see what is pictured.


When you go back together make sure you have the Flat Washer, Lock Washer and a New Bolt. Also make double sure there is no - as in 0 - play betweem Ujoint and the splines in the output shaft. THAT UJOINT SHOULD NOT WIGGLE.


Keep us posted. ken

[kenparker0703]

one more note. When you go back together there should be a full 10 oz tube of grease in that cavity. take the speedo cap off and when grease comes out the speedo hole, you finally have nuff geeeze in the ujoint. ken

[rotorwrench]

A soap based grease in ineffective in any of the U-joint cavities of the Ford torque tube drives. Ford recommended a mix of gear oil and sodium based soap for a semi viscosity lubricant in there. In modern times this has been replaced with John Deere corn head grease which is a thixotropic type lubricant that flows when there is movement and stops flowing when movement stops. This stuff was developed for the complicated corn header gear boxes in modern combines. The JD header gearbox has four shafts with seals on all four so it keeps the lubricant from leaking out under hard conditions. A person can also use a sodium based grease and mix gear oil into it for something similar to what Henry had in mind.

The T170 RTS TOD transmission had a conventional drive shaft tail housing for 2WD pickups and a transfer case tail housing for 4WD pickups. The main cases are the same so either can be altered for the early Ford torque tube drive but the rear of the mainshaft has to be shortened and splines cut to fit the torque tube modification so the TOD mainshaft is not an original model A part. Custom parts have to be machine fabricated to adapt for the early Ford type torque tube.

I really can't even tell if that was the bolt by the damages incurred while bouncing around in the U-joint cavity. It almost looks like a rivet now. The front knuckle of the U-joint should seat against the rear bearing in the transmission and be held in with the bolt, washer, and locking feature that was intended. The washer has to seat too in it's intended place to get a good bolt up. This is why I was concerned about that round protrusion on the end of the current mainshaft. The fit is going to have to be checked there. I would consult with any of the current T170 to early Ford vendors of these modified units to see what they say about that. If Ken has done them before then he should know what is going on. I've never modified one but there are quite a few still out there. There are less vendors now than there used to be due to the lessening quantity of these transmission units. Tremec in Mexico stopped production after 1987 when Ford quit using them.

[shew01]

Here are some more pictures. I didn’t see any debris in the torque tube end. Maybe some else has better eyes. I ran a magnet around the drive shaft end, and it didn’t pick anything up.







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[shew01]

On the transmission side, I did find some debris consisting of metal scraps and rubbery “stuff.” These are probably the remains of the special washer. The lock washer seems to be almost intact.



Here is something rubbery.




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[shew01]

Here is another picture of the universal joint. To me, it looks like the splines (?) near the center of the inside of the universal joint are worn thin. I think this joint is worn out.





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[shew01]

There is a ridge near the center of the transmission output shaft. I don’t know how to flatten that, and I don’t know if the bolt hole is stripped or not. (I don’t have any replacement parts on hand yet.)




Hmmm… Could that ridge be some sort of sealer?

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