The Ford Barn

Walt Ebie · 10-29-2016, 07:52 PM

Any tips - or previous threads - on how I can make my 30 coupe a little easier to steer. Doesn't seem to have much play in the steering so it isn't hard to keep it where you want it. I know we're all spoiled by power steering but my steering is hard enough to require both hands to turn a corner even when you're moving at a normal speed. Tires are up to pressure and have like new treads. Does this sound normal for this car or are there some/any steering adjustments that would help. I do keep the box full of 600# oil.

quickchange · 10-29-2016, 08:20 PM

Try the short pitman arm , it helps. That's why we have just had produced the Right Hand Drive version ,

Tom Wesenberg · 10-29-2016, 08:20 PM

If the balls are round and well greased, and the kingpins in good shape and well greased, then it should steer fairly easy.

ian Simpson · 10-29-2016, 08:41 PM

I think power steering has a lot to answer for. Me and the missus have owned more than a few vehicles without power steering and all of them have been more than a little heavy at 'normal' speeds. Our current MGB steering is almost immoveable at less than 10 mph. The Porsche, Jaguar and Mercedes were all similar. But all have more than made up for it by giving wonderful direct and controlled steering at all speeds up to and beyond legal limits. Our 1928 Tudor is similar.

Handraulic steering is to be savoured and understood.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-29-2016, 08:43 PM

YES, they're HARD to steer, use BOTH hands, they're NOT a "make out" car, unless you're PARKED!!
Bill Makeout

larrys40 · 10-29-2016, 09:25 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Walt,
As The guys noted some of them there are a number of issues that can cause hard steering. Steering balls worn and/or overtight. I like the Steer-Eze kits and use them whenever I do a front axle rebuild. You must have good round steering balls. If they are oval shaped at all you will have issues. New balls and an steer eze kit the the end plug will be about flush with the tie rod/drag link. Personally I'm not necessarily a fan of the shortened arm but some are on here. I have driven them both ways and personally can't tell any difference in eaze of steering.

Also, it is imperative that you spindle bearings be loaded/shimmed properly if necessary. The load of the car is to be on them, if worn and or not correct you may have a load issue on the spindle which can cause hard steering as well. Yes more uncommon but is an issue once in a while. Additionally the box of course makes a lot of difference. Quality of rebuild/lube and adjustment.

Also tires do make a difference as well along with proper alignment/toe in.
Garfield tires which were popular back in the days wear like iron but steer like a truck,

If you need to service your front steering arms you can remove the tie rod/steering arm assembly along with drag link and all in one piece by lossening the front steering arm nuts at the spindles and giving them a wrap with a brass drift/hammer and then removing the steering arm of the sector shaft and pull the whole assembly out for bench repair. Install same way. best and easiest way.. I have done a ton of them.

Keep us posted on your outcome.
Larry Shepard

mshmodela · 10-29-2016, 10:06 PM

As mentioned grease the baby... And remember these are old cars --they will teach you to drive them... With time.

JBill · 10-29-2016, 10:13 PM

See the thread on steering box adjustment. It's possible to get the adjustment too tight and thereby cause hard steering. Sometimes it takes a lot of fiddling to get it just right.

Mike V. Florida · 10-29-2016, 10:23 PM

Every part that joins another part has to be clean, smooth, of the correct shape, and adjusted. Do you know when the last time all the old grease was removed, the balls and sockets checked and replaced?

Walt Ebie · 10-30-2016, 12:12 PM

Thank you all! Since the car was restored from the ground up in 1983 and only has about 1200 miles on it that the balls and sockets could be very worn but I will check and lube everything again - just did that last fall and drove only a couple hundred miles since then. Yes, that was 1200 miles - two previous owners bought it for looks but never drove it. I've had it now about 2 yrs and drive it once or twice every week.

Keith True · 10-30-2016, 12:32 PM

A ground up restoration from 1983 will most likely have egg shaped steering balls,bad brake tracks,and overtightened worn out steering box parts.With a few exceptions cars done back then got parts cleaned,painted,and put back together to run around town at 35 MPH.They were made to look pretty,not restored to original specs.One easy thing to look for on yours are the kingpin bearings.Grab the bearing with your fingers,if you can rotate it the weight of the car is riding directly on the spindle,not on the thrust bearing.That makes for a hard steer.There's a couple of dozen things in the steering that can cause hard steering,and I don't believe I've ever found just one or two things causing it.It usually seems to be 8 or 10 things combined.

C26Pinelake · 10-30-2016, 12:37 PM

Grease it properly, proper tire pressure and install a shortened pitman arm and you will think you have power steering. Wayne

Charlie Stephens · 10-30-2016, 12:58 PM

They are definitely not power steering but it sounds like your is too hard. Try driving another one for comparison.

Charlie Stephens

C26Pinelake · 10-30-2016, 01:48 PM

[QUOTE=Charlie Stephens;1377800]They are definitely not power steering but it sounds like your is too hard. Try driving another one for comparison.

Charlie Stephens[/QUO

Always a good strategy! Wayne

TerryH · 10-30-2016, 02:11 PM

Make sure your tires ar also fully inflated to 35 lbs.....low fire pressure Will also cause harder steering. My 1930 Town Sedan steers what I think is quite easily at speeds over 10 mph. I run newer Goodyear tires and have almost no play in the steering wheel.

Mitch//pa · 10-30-2016, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryH

Make sure your tires ar also fully inflated to 35 lbs.....low fire pressure Will also cause harder steering. My 1930 Town Sedan steers what I think is quite easily at speeds over 10 mph. I run newer Goodyear tires and have almost no play in the steering wheel.

He did mention the pressures were set to spec...I would try steering it jacked up under the axle, just to see f it is tight without the tire resistance. Yes the pressure won't be on the king pin bearings but it's worth a shot for diagnostics if it has abnormally tight steering

Kevin in NJ · 10-30-2016, 03:52 PM

After tire pressure....

How about starting with does it have the correct type oil in the steering box? Is it full?

You really need to verify the balls are round too.

As pointed out, often the cars are not mechanically restored. You must verify everything.

Personally I would start at the steering box and work my way out in logical steps.

Oil in the box, how tight is the sector shaft?
Are all the balls round? Is there all repro springs and such which have been compressed down too far. Some repro springs do not do very good from what I have heard.

How tight are the king pins.

Well you get the idea. My idea of a properly restored to factory A is one you have no problems jumping in and driving all day at 55 MPH. Then get in and do it the next day.

Quigley1930 · 10-30-2016, 08:36 PM

Bill makeout tell me you never drove a bench seat car with at least your arm around your sweetie

Sewall

Fred K-OR · 10-30-2016, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickchange

Try the short pitman arm , it helps. That's why we have just had produced the Right Hand Drive version ,

The short pitman arm does make it a little easer to steer. But it also makes it so that you cannot turn as short. But still it is worth the shorten arm.

Y-Blockhead · 10-30-2016, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred K-OR

The short pitman arm does make it a little easer to steer. But it also makes it so that you cannot turn as short. But still it is worth the shorten arm.

With my '30 Town Sedan I find no difference in turning radius. The steering still goes stop to stop...

But regardless of that, you should determine why it is so hard to turn before adding shortened pitman arms and EZ Steer teflon seats.

Walt Ebie · 10-31-2016, 07:26 AM

I'm going to get it up on jacks today and start looking. Thanks again.

SeaSlugs · 10-31-2016, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith True

I don't believe I've ever found just one or two things causing it.It usually seems to be 8 or 10 things combined.

agreed 100%. Think about just how many pivot points and wear points are just in the connections from the steering wheel to each spindle. A 1/64" here or 1/32" of slop there adds up. Same can be said for things not greased - if you have one bushing thats not getting grease you may never know it but if each one has just a bit of drag it all adds up.

Same exact reasoning can be said about the brake system. - thats another whole thing that you cant just slap shoes on and go...

treat it like a modern car when looking for steering slop (same principles havent changed) lay underneath the car (not running in gear parking brake set etc) and have someone else sit in the car and rock the wheel back and forth just enough to feel resistance - you will see parts moving and can tell exactly where the slop is. Also jack up the front end, check the spindles over really good and try to rock the top and bottom of the tire in and out. ideally it shouldnt rock. If it does you may need 2 people and a bright light to see where the slop is. (one rocker one looker)

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-31-2016, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quigley1930

Bill makeout tell me you never drove a bench seat car with at least your arm around your sweetie

Sewall

Quigley,
You'd be AMAZED at the things I HAVE done in a car
Bill Flirt

Walt Ebie · 10-31-2016, 07:22 PM

Okay...got it up on jacks and, as you might expect, it steers like a dream with no weight on the wheels. Checked the kingpin bearings and both are easy to finger-turn with no weight and when the wheels are back on the ground they are tight - can't turn with your fingers, so I guess that means the weight of the car is on the bearings and not on the pins. In the 'DUH' department, after one of your reminders about tire pressure I remembered I had not done that since back in the hot weather days. Today, now that cool weather has set in, all four were about 6-7 pounds low. So they got pumped up to 35# and a test drive showed a good bit of improvement in the hard steering. While I had it on jacks I lubed everything in the front end so that should help a little, too. I guess one day now I'll have to look at those steering balls and make sure they are 'balls' and not 'eggs.' Thanks again for the help.

10-29-2016, 07:52 PM	#1
Walt Ebie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: East Canton, OH Posts: 168	Hard Steering Any tips - or previous threads - on how I can make my 30 coupe a little easier to steer. Doesn't seem to have much play in the steering so it isn't hard to keep it where you want it. I know we're all spoiled by power steering but my steering is hard enough to require both hands to turn a corner even when you're moving at a normal speed. Tires are up to pressure and have like new treads. Does this sound normal for this car or are there some/any steering adjustments that would help. I do keep the box full of 600# oil.

10-29-2016, 08:20 PM	#2
quickchange Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Nelson. New Zealand Posts: 2,009	Re: Hard Steering Try the short pitman arm , it helps. That's why we have just had produced the Right Hand Drive version ,

10-29-2016, 08:20 PM	#3
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Hard Steering If the balls are round and well greased, and the kingpins in good shape and well greased, then it should steer fairly easy.

10-29-2016, 08:41 PM	#4
ian Simpson Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 709	Re: Hard Steering I think power steering has a lot to answer for. Me and the missus have owned more than a few vehicles without power steering and all of them have been more than a little heavy at 'normal' speeds. Our current MGB steering is almost immoveable at less than 10 mph. The Porsche, Jaguar and Mercedes were all similar. But all have more than made up for it by giving wonderful direct and controlled steering at all speeds up to and beyond legal limits. Our 1928 Tudor is similar. Handraulic steering is to be savoured and understood. Last edited by ian Simpson; 10-29-2016 at 08:45 PM. Reason: Engaged post before brain.

10-29-2016, 08:43 PM	#5
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Hard Steering YES, they're HARD to steer, use BOTH hands, they're NOT a "make out" car, unless you're PARKED!! Bill Makeout __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

10-29-2016, 09:25 PM	#6
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: Hard Steering Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Walt, As The guys noted some of them there are a number of issues that can cause hard steering. Steering balls worn and/or overtight. I like the Steer-Eze kits and use them whenever I do a front axle rebuild. You must have good round steering balls. If they are oval shaped at all you will have issues. New balls and an steer eze kit the the end plug will be about flush with the tie rod/drag link. Personally I'm not necessarily a fan of the shortened arm but some are on here. I have driven them both ways and personally can't tell any difference in eaze of steering. Also, it is imperative that you spindle bearings be loaded/shimmed properly if necessary. The load of the car is to be on them, if worn and or not correct you may have a load issue on the spindle which can cause hard steering as well. Yes more uncommon but is an issue once in a while. Additionally the box of course makes a lot of difference. Quality of rebuild/lube and adjustment. Also tires do make a difference as well along with proper alignment/toe in. Garfield tires which were popular back in the days wear like iron but steer like a truck, If you need to service your front steering arms you can remove the tie rod/steering arm assembly along with drag link and all in one piece by lossening the front steering arm nuts at the spindles and giving them a wrap with a brass drift/hammer and then removing the steering arm of the sector shaft and pull the whole assembly out for bench repair. Install same way. best and easiest way.. I have done a ton of them. Keep us posted on your outcome. Larry Shepard

10-29-2016, 10:06 PM	#7
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: Hard Steering As mentioned grease the baby... And remember these are old cars --they will teach you to drive them... With time. __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

10-29-2016, 10:13 PM	#8
JBill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 702	Re: Hard Steering See the thread on steering box adjustment. It's possible to get the adjustment too tight and thereby cause hard steering. Sometimes it takes a lot of fiddling to get it just right.

10-29-2016, 10:23 PM	#9
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Hard Steering Every part that joins another part has to be clean, smooth, of the correct shape, and adjusted. Do you know when the last time all the old grease was removed, the balls and sockets checked and replaced? __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

10-30-2016, 12:12 PM	#10
Walt Ebie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: East Canton, OH Posts: 168	Re: Hard Steering Thank you all! Since the car was restored from the ground up in 1983 and only has about 1200 miles on it that the balls and sockets could be very worn but I will check and lube everything again - just did that last fall and drove only a couple hundred miles since then. Yes, that was 1200 miles - two previous owners bought it for looks but never drove it. I've had it now about 2 yrs and drive it once or twice every week.

10-30-2016, 12:32 PM	#11
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,988	Re: Hard Steering A ground up restoration from 1983 will most likely have egg shaped steering balls,bad brake tracks,and overtightened worn out steering box parts.With a few exceptions cars done back then got parts cleaned,painted,and put back together to run around town at 35 MPH.They were made to look pretty,not restored to original specs.One easy thing to look for on yours are the kingpin bearings.Grab the bearing with your fingers,if you can rotate it the weight of the car is riding directly on the spindle,not on the thrust bearing.That makes for a hard steer.There's a couple of dozen things in the steering that can cause hard steering,and I don't believe I've ever found just one or two things causing it.It usually seems to be 8 or 10 things combined.

10-30-2016, 12:37 PM	#12
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: Hard Steering Grease it properly, proper tire pressure and install a shortened pitman arm and you will think you have power steering. Wayne

10-30-2016, 12:58 PM	#13
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,032	Re: Hard Steering They are definitely not power steering but it sounds like your is too hard. Try driving another one for comparison. Charlie Stephens

10-30-2016, 01:48 PM	#14
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: Hard Steering [QUOTE=Charlie Stephens;1377800]They are definitely not power steering but it sounds like your is too hard. Try driving another one for comparison. Charlie Stephens[/QUO Always a good strategy! Wayne

10-30-2016, 02:11 PM	#15
TerryH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fountain Valley, Calif. Posts: 937	Re: Hard Steering Make sure your tires ar also fully inflated to 35 lbs.....low fire pressure Will also cause harder steering. My 1930 Town Sedan steers what I think is quite easily at speeds over 10 mph. I run newer Goodyear tires and have almost no play in the steering wheel.

10-30-2016, 03:52 PM	#17
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Hard Steering After tire pressure.... How about starting with does it have the correct type oil in the steering box? Is it full? You really need to verify the balls are round too. As pointed out, often the cars are not mechanically restored. You must verify everything. Personally I would start at the steering box and work my way out in logical steps. Oil in the box, how tight is the sector shaft? Are all the balls round? Is there all repro springs and such which have been compressed down too far. Some repro springs do not do very good from what I have heard. How tight are the king pins. Well you get the idea. My idea of a properly restored to factory A is one you have no problems jumping in and driving all day at 55 MPH. Then get in and do it the next day.

10-30-2016, 08:36 PM	#18
Quigley1930 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Middleburg, Virginia Posts: 421	Re: Hard Steering Bill makeout tell me you never drove a bench seat car with at least your arm around your sweetie Sewall

10-31-2016, 07:26 AM	#21
Walt Ebie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: East Canton, OH Posts: 168	Re: Hard Steering I'm going to get it up on jacks today and start looking. Thanks again.

10-31-2016, 07:22 PM	#24
Walt Ebie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: East Canton, OH Posts: 168	Re: Hard Steering Okay...got it up on jacks and, as you might expect, it steers like a dream with no weight on the wheels. Checked the kingpin bearings and both are easy to finger-turn with no weight and when the wheels are back on the ground they are tight - can't turn with your fingers, so I guess that means the weight of the car is on the bearings and not on the pins. In the 'DUH' department, after one of your reminders about tire pressure I remembered I had not done that since back in the hot weather days. Today, now that cool weather has set in, all four were about 6-7 pounds low. So they got pumped up to 35# and a test drive showed a good bit of improvement in the hard steering. While I had it on jacks I lubed everything in the front end so that should help a little, too. I guess one day now I'll have to look at those steering balls and make sure they are 'balls' and not 'eggs.' Thanks again for the help.