Timing Help

[Walt Ebie]

I know there are many threads re the timing, but here's my question: I'm all set to go.....got my Nu-Rex wrench....knew the instructions by heart....even pulled all the plugs to make the hand-cranking easier.....got the timing pin reversed....BUT I NEVER COULD FIND THE 'DIMPLE! I know it's not very deep so I was looking for a very slight dip, but I never found it. So, what do I do? Somebody invented the Nu-Rex wrench and the Quick-Setter for the points, so does anyone have a way to find a dimple other than the crank-and-feel method?

[Bob C]

Use a philips screw driver.

[KGBnut]

Put the rotor back on the distributor shaft and watch it as you turn the engine. It will point at the number one cylinder contact (roughly pointing at the right headlight) when the dimple is lined up. Yes, use a Philips Screw Driver, or something similarly pointy, and when the rotor starts to approach the number one cylinder contact turn the engine slowly and poke around in the timing cover hole. You will find it.

One more tip, if you ever pull that timing cover off, grab a drill and make that timing index dimple deeper.

Good luck,

Ken

[Gary WA]

Remove pin, using a mirror and flashlight on mirror look closely in the timing pin hole for the dimple. Also remove No 1 spark plug-with light watch for the piston to be at top dead center or close. and try to push pin on dimple. Don't mistake valve for piston. Couple ideas. good luck. You may need someone else to turn engine while your looking.

[Tom K.]

I had the same problem. Put the pin in my lathe and sharpened the point. Had no problem finding the dimple. Good luck

[Tinbasher]

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Everyone has great little tricks here. I like it.

John Poole

[mshmodela]

I have the same issue * 2 what Gary suggested..

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

After 2 neck surgeries, it won't turn fur enough to see in thet LITTLE HOLE!
Bill Repaired

[bunnyc]

With #1 spark plug removed you can see the piston arrive at TDC.

Put trans in 3rd gear, turn the right front wheel back and forth. You can watch the piston move.

[Walt Ebie]

Many thanks to you all!! If I can't find it now - or can't top out #1 - it ain't there!

[Mitch//pa]

Remember 2 revolutions of the crank per 1 of the cam... So make sure your checking on compression stroke for the dimple... If it is running now then get your rotor close to #1 contact in the body, that will be the compression stroke...if the piston is on the exhaust stroke the dimple will be 180 out

[Walt Ebie]

Thanks Mitch for the hint......I did get the piston at the top when I reset the cam, but since I did it several times, I might have done it on the exhaust stroke instead of compression. That might explain why now it doesn't seem tobe getting any spark at all - not a sputter. Does that sound reasonable?

[Mitch//pa]

That won't stop you from getting a basic spark from the coil wire to a head nut.as long as the dist rotor is opening and closing the points you should have spark... It would make your timing way off and won't start but may back fire etc..

[PC/SR]

When you find the dimple, put a little dot of paint on the pulley across from one of the bolts. Then when you need it again, turn directly to the region of the dot. If it is not there, turn the pulley one full turn to the region of the dot again. It is either near the dimple or 180* off, per Mitch above. One full crank turn is 180* cam turn. Saves time looking for it, you know about where it is.

[tbirdtbird]

you'll know where it is when the rotor points to #1 contact.
PPl make this harder than it is

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

you'll know where it is when the rotor points to #1 contact.
PPl make this harder than it is

Dave
I'm wondering if the dist cam lost its reference point because it was loosened and turned....

[Bruce of MN]

Originally Posted by PC/SR

When you find the dimple, put a little dot of paint on the pulley across from one of the bolts. Then when you need it again, turn directly to the region of the dot. If it is not there, turn the pulley one full turn to the region of the dot again. It is either near the dimple or 180* off, per Mitch above. One full crank turn is 180* cam turn. Saves time looking for it, you know about where it is.

I've installed on of these https://www.brattons.com/ignition-ti...ator-only.html and filed a notch in the pulley at TDC as a similar approach.

[Walt Ebie]

Okay guys, one more time: I can see the timing gear dimple and the top of cylinder #1...but not at the same time. If the dimple is in the hole, the cylinder is a little ways down and if the cylinder is full up the dimple is past the hole by a little. When the cylinder is full up, the rotor is about a third of the way past the 1st distributor contact. So, is this the place to reset the cam with the nu-rex? And, secondly, the dumb question of the day....how can I tell if the piston is on the compression or exhaust stroke? Thanks again for all you patience and help....sooner or later I'll get it right and, with your help, will have learned a lot in the process.

[Big hammer]

To find compression stroke, remove spark plug, put your thumb over hole, and turn engine over, it will tell you when it's come up on compression :-) Maybe you have a model B timing cover? Others will chime in---- you have been getting great help, I thought about not responding, but I did!

[Mitch//pa]

On a model A the piston is not at the very top when the dimple is lined up with the hole..

Unless you have a jumped timing gear I would use your nurex wrench to set the dist cam when the dimple is lined up with the hole...

With the dimple lined up that will be compression stroke..

One question from me
How did you get in this position?
Were you doing distributor work, or just resetting everything?did the car die and not restart? This would be important info

[Walt Ebie]

Here's how I got in this situation: If I drive only maybe 3-4 miles at less than 35 mph, all is well. But if if I exceed that - say 8-10 miles and push it up to 40-45, the thermometer in my quail hits the top, pushing some coolant out the overflow and spritzing a little out from around the rad cap. I did flush out the radiator before I started this and got out a lot of gunk but that didn't help the problem. So a member of the local club said it could well be the timing, so I set out to check it and see if it was set right, and...here I am.

[Tom Wesenberg]

OK, that helps a lot. I think I'd remove the front timing cover to make sure your cam gear is correctly timed.
Also if you can post a picture of you timing cover, that would let us know if you have the correct cover, and not a Model B cover.
Here's a picture of how the timing marks should look. In the past it was posted or pictured in some book that the cam gear lined up with the left side of the keyway. This is wrong, because it lines up with the RIGHT side as viewed from the front.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Once your are sure the cam gear is correctly timed, then when the timing pin drops into the dimple, the rotor should be in this exact position, if you have the right cover.

[bunnyc]

"how can I tell if the piston is on the compression or exhaust stroke?"

Watch the valves move. Intake valves line up with intake manifold; exhaust valves with the exhaust manifold. You can watch through the spark plug hole while your helper hand cranks the engine.
(intake, compression, power, exhaust)

Valve movement can also be seen after the valve cover is removed.

[Mitch//pa]

"how can I tell if the piston is on the compression or exhaust stroke?"

I usually just tap the motor around until I feel air coming out of #1 hole... That would be the comp stroke... If u have a compression test hose you can also screw that in and keep your thump over the end while you tap it...I use the starter to do it by pushing the starter rod under the hood
Or the valve check that bunnyc mentioned will work also

[Walt Ebie]

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Thanks again for the additional information - I think I have made some progress. That is, after locating the dimple as close to center as I could, I nu-rexed the cam again and buttoned everything back up. I was glad to hear the engine pop right off - and at a considerably lower idle than before - but it sounded good but then it developed a fairly loud noise - sort of a scraping type noise. Not a steady, consistent noise but intermittent that lasted maybe a second......then quiet.....then maybe a half second....and so on. But after hearing it for 3 instances, I shut it down and don't plan on a restart until I have some idea of what's happening. Can such noise be related to the timing? Aside from the noise, it sounded very good running. By the way, I checked the pics of the various timing covers and from what I see mine appears to be right cover. On mine the distance from the timing pin up to the bolt above it is right at 1 1/2 inches and only 1 inch to the nearest bolt below. That seems to correspond more to the A6019B than to the Model B cover where the pin appears to be more equidistant from each bolt.

[Mitch//pa]

Walt was this a new motor build or one that's been in service? You can try removing the fan belt and see if the scrape goes away.. Sometimes the fan blade hub can rub the water pump nose a tad intermittently ...

[Walt Ebie]

No, this is 33 -year-old rebuild so it's been run a while. I repacked the water pump shortly after I got it a couple years ago. As for now, I think you hit it......when I took off the fan belt and cranked it up, there was no noise. So I lubed the two points around the water pump and fan, put the belt back on, cranked it up and the noise came back. The jam nut is almost back to the end of the threads so could further tightening on the jam nut force the nose of the pump to touch the fan hub? If so, I can repack, or if there's some other solution I'd be glad to hear it. And thanks again for all the help so far!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Has the generator front bearing been oiled?

Right behind the pulley you have a small flip cover that can be pushed to the side. Squirt some oil in the hole. if it has a sealed bearing the oil won't go in, but can't hurt anything.

Also fill the distributor oil hole with lube every 500 miles.

[Mitch//pa]

Maybe it's time for a new fan

[bunnyc]

Panty hose can be used as an emergency fan belt.

In your case, as a diagnostic tool, use the panty hose to eliminate either the generator or water pump to isolate your noise.

[Walt Ebie]

Again, thanks for all the help & hints. Today a fellow club member came over and located the source of the noise - not exactly the news I had hoped for but here it is: For whatever reason, the water pump shaft developed just enough horizontal play to rub back against the head - if you watched it while idling you could see it move back and forth. So now that the timing is right it appears I'm in for a bigger job on the water pump. Whoever restored the car 30+ years ago put on a 4-blade fan so that will not make it any easier. I was told that some guys take a short cut and just install a double gasket in stead of going with a whole new pump. But since this one is at least 33 yrs old and probably more, that may be the best answer - with a leakless pump. Either way, I guess I'll have to do the whole Les Andrews procedure unless some of you know a shorter way to get the job done.

[Bob C]

Another gasket would just make it worse. You need a longer shaft or a collar
for the shaft you have.

Bob

[Mitch//pa]

Get the extreme leakless , look alike studs ,new fan , break off the blades On the 4 blade..

[Big hammer]

Originally Posted by bunnyc

Panty hose can be used as an emergency fan belt.

In your case, as a diagnostic tool, use the panty hose to eliminate either the generator or water pump to isolate your noise.

I have wondered what to do with pantyhose when I get them off her :-)