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Old 02-04-2020, 06:02 PM   #1
dlfrisch
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Default Paint situation

A couple of body / paint shops state, that you canít paint over lacquer - it will not accept any thing on top except lacquer and you canít even purchase lacquer. Itís off market - government / league issue. A couple of shops want to grind and sand it down to bare metal, then prime / paint. I have a good reputable sand blaster company near here, and they have done many vehicles. I sure, it would be less expensive and a savings of labor time, but some of the body shops claim - they could warp / bend the metal sand blasting. I donít see how or any problems, sand blasting, plus it would save a lot of labor time. The car is in good solid condition - no rust. Anyoneís thoughts regarding this issue ?
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:26 PM   #2
Tacoma Bob
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Default Re: Paint situation

Hate to sound like a Debbie Downer but don't rush to buy wax if you catch my drift. I'm not a painter and the chemistry has changed so very much. Think long and hard as to what you really want out of this project. Normally these are very involved projects and can get costly in a heart beat. Just my two bits worth. More experienced guys will jump in with suggestions.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Paint situation

most of the time it is better to start off at bare metal. that being said you can NOT put Lacquer over most other paints because it could lift. if the lacquer is in good shape, that means no checking or lifting you can sand it down and seal and paint right over it. if you are going to put a good paint job over bad paint, you are asking for trouble. been there and done that, over the years I have seen it all.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Paint situation

Don't have someone grinding away on your good tin.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Paint situation

Typically any reputable paint shop is going to want to get down to clean metal before applying new paint. Its gonna be expensive anyway you look at it. Sandblasting is a good option for rusted areas, but for just paint removal, likely best is D/A sanding. I had mine quoted a few years ago at $12K, decided I liked the "distressed" look.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Paint situation

As said the best and safest way is to strip off the lacquer, BUT I have sprayed over lacquer using an epoxy sealer as a sealer between the two different paints such as urethane, with good results. The big problem with lacquer is the amount of thinners that were used when it is applied. In trying to paint over it with a solvent based paint, the thinner of the new paint has a tendency to lift the lacquer if it is not sealed. The older the lacquer the better chance you have. I have no experience with water borne paints, but considering which type you use, some have some solvent in them, it might be the answer. Being old school it is still hard for me to picture a water based paint on autos, but the technology works. It costs about 15-20% more for the paint, but it might be a consideration, maybe the best one. I believe that lacquer is still available from some sources, but is restricted in many places. I am going to try to hunt up a lacquer painted door or fender and beg some extra water borne paint that is left over from a touch up and see what happens when it warms up here in VA. Best of luck
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Paint situation

Sand blasting is fine IF they know what they are doing. Sure, someone who doesn't have a clue can warp a panel so if the blasting shop near you has done cars before, ask to speak to an earlier customer who has had it done there.
Now, that said, we call what you guys refer to as lacquer, acrylic paint (I think). It does not cure, it just dries whereas a paint that has a catalyst added cures. That is a very different thing. After as many years as you like to mention, if you put thinners on it, it will dissolve again. That's where painting over it can be an issue. If the lacquer is not very old, it is likely to keep on shrinking as it dries further (which can take many years), thus causing problems with anything put over the top. If the lacquer is very old, it will have done all the shrinking it will ever do so a barrier coat over it will prevent the thinners in the paint you are applying playing havoc with the lacquer. The barrier coat is a special paint that is inert and doesn't react with the paint above nor below it.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: Paint situation

There is a happy medium, if that's what you want. Not knowing if it is lacquer or not, I would err to the cautious and remove it. That doesn't mean you have to go to bare metal. There is also primer below it, and usually a fair amount of filler.
My preferred method is to sand off All paint, to the primer or filler, as long as the filler is sound, and necessary. You may or may not hit bare metal in spots in the process. I then prime with an epoxy primer sealer, fill anything necessary, prime with high build primer, block sand, repeat as necessary, then final sand and paint.
There is a ton of labor involved, and because Model A fenders are all compound curves, almost all the block sanding needs to be done by hand.
A reputable sand blaster can also blast with no issues, I see it all the time, just make sure they are experienced in doing car bodies. Then make sure you use an epoxy primer sealer first.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:27 AM   #9
ronn
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Default Re: Paint situation

leave it alone
sell the car and buy another


12k for a paint job can go to the purchase of a new car and have another..........
of course you might find a cheaper paint job, but will you be happy?
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:52 AM   #10
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Default Re: Paint situation

12k seems like a fair middle of the road price for a paint job these days. My grandparents paid 9k back in 2007 and the car still looks pretty decent but it's becoming more and more apparent that they used a lot of filler.



Really wish they used that 9k towards fixing the rotten wood, brakes, steering etc.. but hey, I've got something to keep me busy now
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:06 AM   #11
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Default Re: Paint situation

What makes you think your car has lacquer on it?
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: Paint situation

First-What is your end goal?
1. If you want a show car with a shiny paint job then it should be stripped to bare. $12k sounds reasonable, if not maybe a bit low.
2. Driver that you will take out in the rain and not worry about an errant scratch-Then refer to post #8(very good advice). $12k for this kind of a paint job would be ok.
3.Just clean up and have something cool- wet sand and buff what is there, assuming you have a solid paint job, and get some touch up for any areas that may need it. You could do this for $100 and up.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:15 AM   #13
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Default Re: Paint situation

Post #9 makes sense as well. I peruse the model a classifieds on almost a daily basis. For less than 20k one can buy a decent, restored car. 12k would go a long way towards that end. If a paint job is desired it will be a long expensive road, that will most likely end up costing more than the original estimate. I do my own work on my cars and the fun of the hobby for me is the actual building of the car, so I dont mind that it takes a couple of years.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: Paint situation

Well, I've been painting classic cars for 45 years. The problem with lacquer is that it moves alot under different conditions. It expands and it shrinks with the temp. You can paint a Enamel or Urethane over Lacquer but not the other way around. The problem is it won't last. As the old lacquer breaks down the cracking will show up under the new top coat. In Canada lacquer has a life span of 3 years due to the temp. changes. Since your in Florida it should last longer. I always strip paint before I sandblast. I'm fixing a A right know that had been sandblasted to remove the paint. I've put in over 400 hours to fix the warped panels. ood for thought. Guys can sandblast but they really need to know what there doing. The cheapest way to go would be to sandout the lacquer to get down to the primer. Then seal the old primer with Epoxy Primer and then prep the surface and paint. About 320 hours work plus materials. This should last in your area for 10 years before you see any problems coming back. I haven't used Lacquer for 30 years just because it won't hold up. I use single stage Urethane, buff it out and it looks like lacquer and lasts at least 30 years. Food for thought. What do you want, What do you want to spend. Most of my body and paint jobs are $30,000 - $40,000 because of the Time and Materials. $5000.00 for materials for a "A" JP. (Here's an example)
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:23 PM   #15
ronn
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Default Re: Paint situation

saw a beautiful coupe on the MAFCA website about 2 months ago. it was black and fully restored.
The paint looked terrific in the photo. asking price was 14k.................
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:33 PM   #16
J Franklin
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Default Re: Paint situation

This car sold recently for around16K. Fresh new paint down to the metal, new LB interior and fairly fresh engine/trans rebuild. so they are out there!
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Old 02-06-2020, 10:55 AM   #17
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Default Re: Paint situation

Since this is your first Model A, why don't you just clean it up the best you can and enjoy it the way it is? Just doing the mechanical repairs and upkeep will keep you busy for awhile. Make it mechanically sound and enjoy driving it. If somewhere down the road you decide you want a fully restored car, you can always sell this one.
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Old 02-06-2020, 11:12 AM   #18
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Default Re: Paint situation

GZ has a very valid point.

Clean it up, drive it, beat on it, enjoy it and as time goes on you can slowly decide what is best for you.
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Paint situation

Quote:
If somewhere down the road you decide you want a fully restored car, you can always sell this one.
Or you can keep this one and buy another one that has been restored...


TOB
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Old 02-07-2020, 09:05 AM   #20
desotoguy
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Default Re: Paint situation

The body shop will dictate what needs to be done. Most will not paint over old, poor condition paint. If you decide to strip your car, do some research on Dustless Blasting, have seen video's for the process, but have not had occasion to use it. For your information, lacquer paint is available, https://tcpglobal.com/pages/acrylic-lacquer-paint
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