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Old 03-05-2020, 11:22 AM   #1
Speedster Jeff
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Default Valve Cover

I think I may have a valve sticking on one of my T engines. Can I take the valve cover off and run the engine with it off to watch the valves or will that cause a problem?


Thank you,


Jeff
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Old 03-05-2020, 12:01 PM   #2
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Default Re: Valve Cover

Might get a little oil splatter, but not much else. It is splash feed.
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Old 03-05-2020, 01:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: Valve Cover

Y-not just perform a compression test on each cylinder, you will know right quick the offending cylinder then plan your work.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Valve Cover

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Y-not just perform a compression test on each cylinder, you will know right quick the offending cylinder then plan your work.

It only seems to be missing every now and then. I have been chasing plugs, wires, distributor, cap, rotor button, etc. and I took a friend for a ride and he said it was a valve sticking. I thought that maybe I could run it and see if it would do it while watching it and then come up with a plan like squirting something on it like PB Blaster. Any reason I shouldn't do that?



Thanks for the help everyone, it is greatly appreciated.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:28 PM   #5
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Default Re: Valve Cover

I ran with no valve cover for a while so you should be fine.
While it'd be cool to set up a slow-motion camera to catch the misfire & compare valve lift with a frame of normal fire, it'd be huge amount of work for nothing.
I can't really see a problem with squirting them with a light oil.

Have you tried putting a small amount of oil in the fuel? Works for me.
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: Valve Cover

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A few tablespoons of MMO marvel mystery oil could help matters, you might just have a weak or failing valve spring causing problems.

When you say distributor, I always think moisture inside or a small crack in the cap that is hard to find giving you fits

Let us know how you make out there Jeff.
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Old 03-05-2020, 03:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Valve Cover

It wouldn't hurt to remove the covers and have a thorough look. check the springs and note the clearances and clean any gunk. I like using MMO in the gas 4 oz. to 10 gallons. It keeps the valves from sticking.
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: Valve Cover

The first 30 or 40 thousand Model Ts made did not have any valve covers, and they run just fine. Model Ts had exposed valves until sometime in 1911-as did most other cars.

Your plan should work if the problem is indeed a sticking valve.
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: Valve Cover

Yes you can run it without the valve cover. Not much comes out, remember that the early
T's had no valve covers. I ran one once that had a sticky valve, I squirted it with carb
cleaner to unstick it with it running then lubed it with Marvel mystery oil.
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Old 03-11-2020, 08:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: Valve Cover

Seafoam works wonders on sticky valves. Straight on the valve stem
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Old 03-13-2020, 09:45 AM   #11
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Default Re: Valve Cover

Thank you all for the replies. I put new plugs in and a new distributor cap and rotor button and it still misses every once in a while. I took the valve cover off and tried to use my phone with a slow motion video and that didn't catch the problem, but it is cool to watch. I finally got frustrated and took an oil can and just squirted 30 weight oil on each valve stem and as much as I wanted to think it was better, my son said it is no different. I am at a loss. With dad's passing, I am running out of mentors to call because they are all passing away. My next thought is to pull the head off and see if I can pour some Rislone down each valve from the top, or even take each one out and clean them and the guides and see if that helps. I called a local guy with a T that I met and it turns out, he hires his work out and couldn't help. I have a few other folks I can call that worked with my father and see if they can help me because they used to remachine cranks, cams and engine blocks years ago. If I take the head off, I might give it a valve job and see if that would help. I live with the oil leaks because it is a model T, but I don't like it not running properly. I have almost all of my other toys running like swiss watches, and this thing deserves to be the same way.
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Old 03-13-2020, 10:23 AM   #12
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Default Re: Valve Cover

A Model T will not run like a Swiss watch, it's a Model T! Have you done a compression check? When is it missing; idle or running speed? Mine has a miss at idle, that's just the way it is and runs fine at speed. Have you tried enriching the mixture? You may be running too lean.
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Old 03-16-2020, 10:21 AM   #13
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Default Re: Valve Cover

You may have arcing in the coil box that is intermittent look for black burn spots inside the box from moisture if that,s the problem replace with a plastic coil box i had a miss and could not find ran it in the dark garage did not see any thing so i took coil box out and bench tested it and had arcing in the box, black lines. Clean all electoral connections with muriatic acid and dip in water with backing soda and then in plane water and dab of silicone lube

Last edited by richie rich; 03-16-2020 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 03-17-2020, 10:47 AM   #14
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Default Re: Valve Cover

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You may have arcing in the coil box that is intermittent look for black burn spots inside the box from moisture if that,s the problem replace with a plastic coil box i had a miss and could not find ran it in the dark garage did not see any thing so i took coil box out and bench tested it and had arcing in the box, black lines. Clean all electoral connections with muriatic acid and dip in water with backing soda and then in plane water and dab of silicone lube

It has an aftermarket distributor and I replaced the cap and rotor button last week.
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Old 03-17-2020, 10:52 AM   #15
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Default Re: Valve Cover

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Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
A Model T will not run like a Swiss watch, it's a Model T! Have you done a compression check? When is it missing; idle or running speed? Mine has a miss at idle, that's just the way it is and runs fine at speed. Have you tried enriching the mixture? You may be running too lean.

The miss is all over the place. It can be at an idle or when I'm trying to cruise above 32mph. It has an aftermarket intake with a Tillotson model x carburetor and I just bought a rebuild kit for it and will install it soon. I run with the knob on the dash closed.
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Old 03-18-2020, 07:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: Valve Cover

With the mixture knob closed, you are running too lean. Open it up 1/2 turn and see if it runs better.
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Old 03-18-2020, 11:27 AM   #17
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Default Re: Valve Cover

With out knowing what modifications have been made to engine?
What intake/exhaust are you running?
Have you checked for vacuum leaks?
If you are running the Model A manifolds and compression is too low, maybe the engine is having a hard time pulling fuel in at lower RPMs. I ran an early aluminum intake (Ford) for a while, the engine even with good compression (in the 50 LBs range) was not happy at lower RPMs with the extra volume that the intake had. Switched back to iron type and it was much better.

Going back to what I suggested before; check your compression and adding to that, vacuum leak check and maybe bleed down test. If the manifold has a port might also do vacuum gauge test.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=278006
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Old 03-23-2020, 12:46 PM   #18
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With the mixture knob closed, you are running too lean. Open it up 1/2 turn and see if it runs better.

That seemed to make it worse. I'm at a loss. I may pull the head and replace the springs. There isn't a lot of time on this engine so I may lap the valves if I see rust on the seats from when it was in storage.
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Old 03-25-2020, 09:51 AM   #19
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Default Re: Valve Cover

DO NOT... I repeat DO NOT pull the head!!! There's no reason on earth to do that and it will give you absolutely no answers + cost time and $. First off running with the needle valve closed indicates another problem to me. Actually I didn't think it was even possible to start/run that way. Truthfully I'm not very familiar with the carb you have so that might not be right. Secondly if a valve was hanging up it's very likely you'd hear something. An intake valve would pop back thru the carb and an exhaust would pop thru the tail pipe Not hearing either one? It's very likely not a valve. I'm more with the ign. people right now. Perhaps a worn distributor bushing is the problem. It would cause missing at various times by messing with the point setting. Good Luck and get help if you need it.
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Old 03-26-2020, 11:29 AM   #20
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DO NOT... I repeat DO NOT pull the head!!! There's no reason on earth to do that and it will give you absolutely no answers + cost time and $. First off running with the needle valve closed indicates another problem to me. Actually I didn't think it was even possible to start/run that way. Truthfully I'm not very familiar with the carb you have so that might not be right. Secondly if a valve was hanging up it's very likely you'd hear something. An intake valve would pop back thru the carb and an exhaust would pop thru the tail pipe Not hearing either one? It's very likely not a valve. I'm more with the ign. people right now. Perhaps a worn distributor bushing is the problem. It would cause missing at various times by messing with the point setting. Good Luck and get help if you need it.

I think you just helped me with your comment on the tail pipe pop. I will listen to some of my videos and see if it pops.
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Old 03-29-2020, 11:20 AM   #21
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Default Re: Valve Cover

How old is the gasoline that you are running it on....the gas of today is made to burn, not be stored. Some fresh gas may help though the T engine is pretty forgiving on fuel, however this is troubleshooting. Also, run the engine in the dark, after sundown, you can see all kinds of arcing and even a spark plug porcelain light up like a lightbulb if it is bad...you may have something arcing to ground. This is going to be a process of elimination and you may have more than one problem.
Hang in there and step thru it...
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:31 AM   #22
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How old is the gasoline that you are running it on....the gas of today is made to burn, not be stored. Some fresh gas may help though the T engine is pretty forgiving on fuel, however this is troubleshooting. Also, run the engine in the dark, after sundown, you can see all kinds of arcing and even a spark plug porcelain light up like a lightbulb if it is bad...you may have something arcing to ground. This is going to be a process of elimination and you may have more than one problem.
Hang in there and step thru it...



We usually go to Wawa on Friday evenings and fill the tank with their R gas. The gas in it now would be from two Fridays ago because we didn't run it this past weekend. I'm still inclined to pull the head, pull the valves and do a valve job on it just for the pleasure of knowing that it couldn't be the valves, and also that I have two sons that are in the shop with me all of the time and are soaking up everything I teach them because they are 20 and 17. I'm sure the valve job time would not go to waste because my dad taught me how to do them around that age. I could also flush out the block and just do a general inspection. I think the issue might be that this engine was restored in the late 1960's, driven about 3-5k and then sat because the owner restored other cars and drove them because they could keep up with traffic. Wouldn't a compressed valve spring be weak after nearly 50 years of sitting?
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:47 AM   #23
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Default Re: Valve Cover

Listen. If you simply must pull the head for no reason at least do the following; take a dry/wet compression test. Nothing will indicate the engines condition better than that. Since you seem bent on doing valves which might not need it be done might as well confirn the condition of said valves and the rings too. Sitting won't wear valve springs out. Useage will. Don't forget The car doesn't know how long it's been since it last ran.
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Old 08-30-2022, 08:16 PM   #24
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Default Re: Valve Cover

I didn't pull the head and don't ask me why, but I decided to rebuild the carb and the miss went away. What would cause it to miss from the carb?
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Old 08-31-2022, 11:47 AM   #25
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Default Re: Valve Cover

Running too lean will make it backfire through the carb. This is sort of a hickup on these small engines rather than anything to do with fire. It just depends on how lean it was under load.
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Old 08-31-2022, 08:25 PM   #26
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Glad you took care of your problem.
Just want to always emphasize. Several mentions of Marvel Mystery Oil, were made.
Problems or not it is a valuable asset for any valve in block motor.
Keep some in the gas, add some to the oil.
It is a real asset.
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Old 09-02-2022, 11:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: Valve Cover

Hi Jeff,
Dizzy bushings will cause a random miss fire, Check the color of your plugs if they indicate a lean condition then the mixture could be a issue. I find that my T will run with the mixture screwed all the way in on my model A marvel carb but is to lean to run real well at low altitudes. These are old carbs & needles & seats are not perfect. If you are like most T people you probably have a spare tappet cover, cut it and the gasket down enough that you can see the valves. Be creative and run it like that you should have a minimum of oil loss ( after all it is a model T ) As far as top end lube I use synthetic caster oil, it clings to parts better than MMO and smells better than wintergreen.
Craig.
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