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Old 08-21-2014, 06:58 PM   #21
Muttley
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

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Congratulations, that's 12 years longer than I've been alive.
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Step one in asking a question on this forum respect your elders, and I'm only 9 years older than you. You gotta take the good and the bad when asking a question like this on a forum about restoration.
In my original post I clearly stated ".....please, don't clog up this thread with "WHY?!?!?" or similar posts." so I'd say my response was warranted. Restorations are fine (if that's what you're into, I'm not) but I really don't see how anyone could be against a 6 to 12 volt conversion............it's not like I asked for advice on chopping the top or replacing the Banger with a Hemi.
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:15 PM   #22
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

Question... If Muttley were to use a 12v coil should a ballast resistor be used as on a more modern car (say 1956?) or run straight 12v thru coil and points. Do you need to change out the condenser?
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:18 PM   #23
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

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Question... If Muttley were to use a 12v coil should a ballast resistor be used as on a more modern car (say 1956?) or run straight 12v thru coil and points. Do you need to change out the condenser?
You'd have to measure the ohms of the coil primary, which is the two terminals with nuts. For 12 volts you want 3 ohms, whether it's all in the coil, or half in the coil and half in the ballast resistor.
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Old 08-21-2014, 08:43 PM   #24
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

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Question... If Muttley were to use a 12v coil should a ballast resistor be used as on a more modern car (say 1956?) or run straight 12v thru coil and points. Do you need to change out the condenser?
Most of the old parts men that actually knew the difference between what we use to call 12 volt or 6 volt coils have either retired or died out. Instead of volts, coils are now generally referred to in OHMs. A coil rated at 3.0 ohm is an internally resisted 12 volt coil and 1.5 ohm is a six volt coil. There are many other different OHM rated coils used with electronic ignition that just adds a lot of confusion. The original or six volt coil can be used on 12 volts if a ballast resister is used. If I used a ballast resister in this type setup I would use one like the one on page A-152 in Snyders catalog, part # A-12001 or the one on page 76 in Brattons catalog part #16880 . This setup works good with the original points and condenser on a 12 volt setup. If I used a new coil in a 12 volt model A conversion I would use the Pertronix flamethrower part # 40611 epoxy 3.0 ohm coil . Most good parts houses can get this coil, if not Eastwood or JC Whitney or many other sources can get this part and confusion will be eliminated . Besises being a 12 volt coil that will need no resister it also gives instant starts, clean running spark plugs and increased power that you can feel. This works with points ignition. I run original style points and condenser with mine.
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Old 08-21-2014, 08:49 PM   #25
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

Thanks Tom and Purdy. I was thinking in terms of say a '56 Ford that when cranking gets full 12v to coil but when running get ~9v to coil (via ballast resistor). After I read your answers I realized the "A" isn't wired like that (switch is just on-off, no run position).
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:12 PM   #26
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

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So this coil is the one to get?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-40511/overview/
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:50 PM   #27
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

The coil that was recommended for my 12 volt conversion was the part #40611 epoxy 3.0 ohm which is a 40.000 volt Flamethrower coil . Use whatever coil that you want but I wouldn't recommend the oil filled version . If the oil filled version is rated at 3.0 OHM it will work but will need to be mounted upside down with the connections at the top to prevent oil leakage out the tower The epoxy version is a solid type coil similiar to the original tar filled coil that came on the model A and can be mounted in the usual model A manner . The Ohms don't look right on the coil pictured and I wouldn't risk it
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

No, this one http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pnx-40611/overview/
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:03 PM   #29
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

Those earlier 12 volt systems that ran 12 V to the coil for startup only and then dropped back to 6 V for running accomplished that via the solenoid. The GM style solenoid has a special terminal on it to bypass the resistor in the circuit to the coil. The Ford type solenoid also had such a terminal.

He said he switched it to push button start so he had to have used a Ford-type solenoid to do that. Being a repop, there may or may not be the extra terminal there; he would have to ohm it out.

Purdy, I am now using American made 1.5 Ohm coils that I am getting from Mel Mallory at FSI ignition. Per Mel, there is only one company left in America making coils and they are of very good quality. This company does NOT make an internally resisted coil (ie a 3.0 Ohm coil); he has to get those from overseas. This American company is in Indiana and I think the name is Andover or something. He also said many users do not like the appearance of an external resistor hanging off something (not a problem for me, I want the darned thing to work. We think nothing of heading out for a 1000 mile tour and I need reliability away from home. In fact we leave on another one in a week)

I like the resistor externally because that spares the coil all that extra heat, increasing the longevity
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:30 AM   #30
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

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He said he switched it to push button start so he had to have used a Ford-type solenoid to do that. Being a repop, there may or may not be the extra terminal there; he would have to ohm it out.
I'll have to change the solenoid over too, it's a 6 volt.
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Old 08-22-2014, 04:54 AM   #31
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

You might want to look at The Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook Vol II by Les Andrews. Section 4 has a handy checklist and fairly complete instructions.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:44 AM   #32
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

So all the gauges will be fine except for changing the bulbs? and switching the ammeter wires

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Old 08-22-2014, 11:01 AM   #33
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

If you are changing to 12 Volts, send me an email and I will send you a list of bulbs for both 6V and 12V, and another list of electrical parts and a way to convert the GM alternator to 12V cheaply. My email is [email protected]
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:01 PM   #34
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Default Re: 12 Volt Conversion

Since you're Dad is dead set on spending money he does not have to;
This is from Ken at Kens Garage.


Battery

Any good 12 Volt battery will do as long as it will fit your battery box and hold down. I selected a 72 month, 675 cranking amp, universal battery.
Generator

I installed a GM 63 Amp Alternator with an internal self exciting voltage regulator. The hook up is one wire, the same as the existing generator. You will need to make two small brackets to mount the alternator or you can use two shackle bars and drill out for the proper size bolts. An alternator pulley can be purchased from your friendly Model A parts supplier.
Starter

No modifications are necessary to the starter. Just touch the pedal and enjoy really fast starts.
Ammeter

I changed the standard 20 amp ammeter to a 30 amp ammeter as an alternator will peg the standard meter. You must reverse the leads on the ammeter due to the change in polarity of the battery. Your neighborhood Model A parts supplier carries the 30 amp ammeter.
Headlights

Since I installed an alternator I opted to go all the way for headlights and convert to Halogen bulbs. The conversion is relatively easy. You can purchase a kit to modify your existing reflectors or you can purchase new reflectors with the Halogen sockets installed. You must install an alternator to successfully operate Halogen bulbs.
6 Volt kits are available. What a pleasure to be able to really see while driving at night.
Ignition

You could install a 12 volt coil and a resistor to reduce the voltage to the points.
I elected to install a PerTronix IGNITOR electronic ignition system. This is an extremely easy system to install as it fits entirely inside the distributor; no outside boxes are required. Kits are available for the standard Model A or B, early V8, and Mallory distributors. Both 6 and 12 kits are available.
Kits are furnished with a new coil as the correct coil resistance is very important for proper operation. Kits are distributed by: Remund Ignitions, Inc.
P.O. Box 857
Lemon Grove, CA 91946-0857
(619)460-3620
Horn

Getting the horn to work properly was the most perplexing part of the conversion. I tried several "voltage reducers" from the local parts stores but none could handle the current demands of the Model A horn. I finally purchased a 0 to 2 Ohm variable power resistor with a 100 watt rating from an electronics supply house. I selected a variable resistor in order to optimize the voltage to the horn.
The resistor I purchased was am Ohmite D100K2RO ($15.87) with two Type 12 brackets ($0.55 ea.) (Newark stock nos. 13F671 & (2) 13F099) from:
Newark Electronics
1-800-463-9275
Branch offices of Newark are located throughout the United States. Minimum order is $25.00. An alternate approach would be to puchase a 12 volt horn.
Light Bulbs

The following bulbs can be used with a 12 volt system: Cowl, Tail, and Dash Lights - #89, 6 cp
Dome Light - #67/97, 4 cp
Stop Lights - #1156/10, 32 cp
Turn Signals

If you have a Signal-Stat turn signal it will be necessary to change the flasher to a Signal-Stat #180 and the bulb to a #1445.
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