My 34 Won't Start

[JimG]

I have a 34 fordor with a 59 engine. My setup is not original. I have a Holley 8007 4 barrel carburetor, electronic ignition using a Mallory 29216 coil with a resistor (don't know what size) and 611 Power Cell, and an electronic fuel pump. That’s how it came tome. I have owned the car for 5 years and it has always run OK, but been alittle hard to start.

I have been trying to start my car for about three weeks with no luck. I haven’t driven it for about 3-4 weeks. I normally try to run it at least once a week. But my wife had me on all sort of home renovation projects that are still continuing and we have had so much rain (that was 3 weeks ago - dry as a bone now)… I finally tried to start it 3 weeks ago and couldn’t get it running. I have tried various things, to no avail. I have installed a new fuel filter( the previous owner left one in the glove box, so I figured after owning it 5 years it might be time for a change). Took out all the plugs and cleaned and gapped them to .025. They were kind of black.


My usual approach to starting it is to spray some starting fluid in the carb and it usually starts right up, and runs great once started. It was hard to start before I started using starting fluid. I know I have fuel going onto the carb. I can see it, plus when I changed the fuel filter there was gas in the line. I have since checked and there is gas in the new filter.

I talked to Charlie NY as he lives near me. He suggested I try to see if I have spark next. I pulled one plug wire and with the ignition switch on cranked the car and tried touching the wire to the plug and the block and did not see any spark. So I think I am not getting any spark.


Next I sent Jim Linder (Bubba) an e-mail as I used the search function on the barn to look up issues similar to mine with Mallory ignitions and found he was consistently giving good advice for the issues. He suggested replacing the Mallory 29216 coil with a Mallory 29219 coil. The new coil just arrived and I installed it and I still can't start and still don't seem to have a spark.


What do you think the next steps should be to try to diagnose what is going on with my electronic ignition?

I could really use some advice by someone a lot more knowledgeable than me. The good news is that the car is stuck in mygarage, not on the side of the road somewhere. The bad news is it seems to have become a fixture in the garage. Here is a picture of the old coil and resistor mounted on the bracket behind it. The resistor is a little hard to see. It is the white horizontal line in back of the coil.

[Ruth]

What kind of electronic ignition do you have? You mention you have a Mallory coil but no mention of the brand of ignition.

[tubman]

Electronic ignition modules (especially 6 volt units and those on cars with generators) have a bad habit of spontaneous failure. Translation : Sometimes they just stop working for no apparent reason.

[Ggmac]

Where does your coil power come from ? Have you traced it to the ignition switch with power all the way back to the switch and through it ? What I usually do is “ walk theline “ start at the coil and work backwards or at the battery and work to the switch with a test light .
Make sure you didn’t accidentally hit a hidden kill switch from the previous care takers .

[JimG]

Answering questions asked: #2 I don't know what kind of ignition I have. How do I tell? There are several boxes on the fire wall. Would it be one of those? Here are photos of all the devices on the fire wall and the coil and resistor. The Mallory Power Cell 611 is well labelled. Looked up the Hella 4RD 931 680-01 on line. It is a relay. The box with the H on it above the solenoid is a relay for the under hood horn, I believe. Hard to read what is printed on the end of the resistor but it looks like it could be 700, which jives with a thread that 19Fordy posted in 2019. He says the Mallory 700 resistor is .75 to 1.5 ohms and is what is recommended with the 29216 coil I originally had. #3 I should have mentioned it is a 12 V system. #4 I don't know where the coil power is coming from. I have not tried to trace it back yet. The wiring diagram for the Mallory 611 shows the 12 V from the ignition switch goes to the balast resistor. Many wires go into flexible harnesses. When you are mentioning testing with a test light - I don't have a 12 V one but could get one. Do I test items with the ignition on? Do I need to be concerned about amperage?

[tubman]

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WOW! A lot of non-stock stuff on there (ignition, alternator, ballast resistor, 12 volts, starter solenoid, etc.). Any chance of getting in touch with whoever built it? They obviously had a plan.

Anyway, it's way beyond me, so I'm out on any attempts to help fix it. I'll still bet the electronic module died. At this point, if it was mine, I'd go back to all stock parts, but it may be too far down the line for that.

[JimG]

Unfortunately, the guy who built it is dead.

[JSeery]

Might start by determining what ohm resistant the coil is?

You are going to have to figure out a wiring diagram before you can test much. Here is how that Power Cell is wired in (or should be).

Will, that sucks! Let me see if I can find a high res diagram!!

Will again, now I see you already had the diagram attached to your post!!!! Anyway, it looks likes it's wired up per the diagram. I can see the common ground for the Power Cell and the distributor, but would assume it is correct as well. If you are getting power to the ballast resistor, the other wiring to the solenoids is not relevant. My guess would the the unit inside of the distributor. May have to pull it and have it checked.

[koates]

There is a bit too much stuff in there to follow it just by photos. Another typical example of electronic non standard electricals which work well for a while. The original flathead 6 volt electrical equipment worked very well and was easy to faultfind. Take your car to an auto electrical shop and have them check it out otherwise you are just wasting your time because nothing is standard. Regards, Kevin.

[JSeery]

I know it's far from original, but I kinda like messing around with relays and electronic stuff. Catch is, you have to understand how it all goes together, and that's hard to do on something someone else did. Everything may be fine just like it is with a failed distributor. It is fairly common with an electronic one, which is one of the complaints compared to a simple points system. Just need to get the distributor checked out. Now the question is where? Might need to contact Mallory (through whoever owns the name now) and see what they suggest. I would think you would need the model number off the distributor to get anywhere. It should be possible to replace the module inside the distributor, but don't know for sure. Need input from an electronic Mallory owner/user on here.

[JimG]

JSerry,


The original 29216 coil is supposed to have .7 Ohms primary resistance and 8.9 Ohms secondary resistance. The 29216 coil is supposed to be installed with a Mallory 700 resistor which is .75 to 1.5 ohms, which appears to be what I have. The new 29219 coil I bought is supposed to have 1.4 Ohms primary resistance and 10 Ohms secondary resistance. This is all stuff from the web. The instructions with the 29219 coil says when using with point-type distributors, an additional ballast of .5 to 1.0 Ohms is required, for a total of 2-4-Ohms. They recommend MSD Part no. 8214 which is .8 Ohms. I f my existing resistor is .75 to 1.5 Ohms, this should be OK. I don't actually know what kind of distributor I have as I haven't opened it yet. Sounds like this is the next thing I need to do.

[flatjack9]

What voltage do you have at the coil when the engine is cranking? If it drops much below 10 volts, the ignition will not fire. Either the battery needs to be charged or you have too much resistance in the system.

[tubman]

First of all, the secondary resistance numbers you are giving here are not correct; they should be in the thousands of ohms. Either you are stating them incorrectly or your source is faulty.

I am sorry to say this, but in my opinion, you are in over your head. Perhaps there is someone near you that can come and lend a hand. I believe the only option you have other than this is to obtain a replacement electronic module and installing it in the distributor without changing anything else. This is expensive and a crap shoot, but I believe it gives you the best chance of solving your problem.

The number one rule in trouble-shooting is to change only one thing at a time to see if that particular thing is causing your problem.

Good luck to you.

[JSeery]

Don't see how you can change a .7 ohm coil for a 1.4 ohm coil and expect it to work. Without knowing what distributor you have I think you are dead in the water as far as troubleshooting goes.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by koates

There is a bit too much stuff in there to follow it just by photos. Another typical example of electronic non standard electricals which work well for a while. The original flathead 6 volt electrical equipment worked very well and was easy to faultfind. Take your car to an auto electrical shop and have them check it out otherwise you are just wasting your time because nothing is standard. Regards, Kevin.

I agree with Kevin - The cost and time they take to fix it will be nothing compared to the frustration and the time taken trying to fiqure it out yourself - Been there done that -Karl

[Mart]

I tend to run near to stock parts for ease of troubleshooting, also swappability between my vehicles.
That said, a test that is universal despite whatever parts are in use is to take a plug lead off, put it on a plug laid against the head and look for a spark when cranking.
Do you have a spark when cranking?
Also, take the main coil to distributor lead off the distributor and lay the end near the head. Crank it over and look for a spark.

No spark does confirm the problem lies within the ignition.

I used the technique above and was able to identify a faulty coil. (By swapping on another coil which restored gook spark).

Mart.

[51 MERC-CT]

This is a thread from over on the HAMB, may or may not be helpful.---


https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...do-now.993815/


My bet is that the distributor module is bad.
The red box appears to be just a rectifier/diode and probably not the problem.

[Terry,OH]

See posting #17 above and read the HAMB posting especially the post from Bubba. Good Luck

[JimG]

Tubman, The resistance figures I listed were from Summit Racing. I see the secondary values had a K after them, so they are in thousands of Ohms.


51 Merc, I had seen that post on the HAMB. That was one of the reasons I started out by contacting BUBBA directly. He recommended I try replacing the 29216 with a 29219 coil.

[tubman]

If the coil tests to the proper specs from Summit (the "K" makes a difference), why replace it? It has been working fine and you will just be introducing an additional variable into the equation.