best way to get heads off

[1930artdeco]

Hi all,


What is the best way/tool to get a set of heads off? The bolts all came out nice and easily, most were all coated with oil but two center bolts came out with what appears to be water droplets on them. I looked in the manual and I don't have the special tool that they show. Do I need a special head puller?


Thanks,


Mike

[56sedandelivery]

Been too long since I worked on a Y block but there is usually a spot you can stick a screwdriver and should just pop off.

[darrell]

if they havent used sealer on the gaskets they come of easy.

[Dominic Hide]

IMG_1955.jpg

[1930artdeco]

The heads have never been off the engine, so they are just plain hard to remove I think. Dominic, thanks for the pic I will give that spot a try tomorrow.

Mike

[chain drive]

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ford used thin steel head gaskets with no gasket material i used a bar in the intake port and pressure the dowel pins are holding them good luck

[1930artdeco]

Yeah, I was thinking the intake ports as well-gently of course.

Mike

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by chain drive

ford used thin steel head gaskets with no gasket material i used a bar in the intake port and pressure the dowel pins are holding them good luck

There you go, no possible damage to the mating surfaces. Just steer clear of valves.

[Daves55Sedan]

If you're talking about a Y-block, notice that there is a little portion at the bottom of the head that protrudes from the engine block at the front.
I have always taken a large, regular screwdriver and stuck it under that little lip there, then tapped the bottom of the screwdriver with a hammer. That will cause it to pop up a little bit.
Another way to do it is to have two 1/2" diameter steel rods, each about a foot long. One end of each rod should be beveled round at one end. Stick the beveled end of one rod in the second or third exhaust port and stick the beveled end of the other rod at the opposite end intake port. (Back that one out as needed to keep away from valve stem).
Grab the two rods and pull up and the head should break free (after all the bolts are out, of course).
I've done it both ways. Always worked for me.

[1930artdeco]

Well they are off! Used a block of wood and some tire irons and they popped right off easily, after a few good whacks. And this is what I found.

GOOD-Some carbon ridge-albeit not all of the way around and just a very slight wear ridge. No major scoring, although there is one spot that can be seen and just barely felt. Standard bore, clean piston tops-more or less and Ford valves in the heads. Not bad for a sub 50K engine.

BAD-some sludge, not much and it will get cleaned out when on the stand. some scale and goop in the antifreeze in the water jackets. Rust on some valve heads but I think that is from sitting in the yard.


Overall, she is in pretty good shape. Next up is to see what the bearing look like. What do you all think? Passenger head/block and then driver side head/block and finally #6 before scraping and after.



Mike

[scicala]

Those appear to be 471 heads, which were used on '59 292's. They have the big valves like the '57 ECZ-G heads but larger combustion chamber, so about one number lower on the compression ratio.
I think you said the engine came out of a '57, so at least the heads aren't original. All passenger car Y-Blocks in '57 had ECZ-G heads.

Sal

[1930artdeco]

Yep, I just found them on the Y block guy site. So now I don't know what to make of the motor. I will check the bearings this weekend. I may just use these heads as is for now and look for the correct heads later.

Mike

[Dominic Hide]

The extra steam holes drilled in the block between the center cylinders could have been added later, but my bet would be the block is the same vintage as the heads.

[darrell]

what are the casting letters on the block.59 blocks are b9ae.they didnt have the steam holes until the the last 2 years 63 and 4.unless you have one of these its a rebuilt.

[Merc Cruzer]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

There you go, no possible damage to the mating surfaces. Just steer clear of valves.

I will introduce you to my wife...she tears my head off all the time, and never leaves a mark!

As KULTULZ would say: And Then The Fight Started ...

[scicala]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

Yep, I just found them on the Y block guy site. So now I don't know what to make of the motor. I will check the bearings this weekend. I may just use these heads as is for now and look for the correct heads later.

Mike

The 471 heads will work OK. The only difference is the 292 will have an 8:1 comp ratio instead of about 9:1 with flat top stock pistons. Slight difference in HP number at high RPM.

Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer

I will introduce you to my wife...she tears my head off all the time, and never leaves a mark!

As KULTULZ would say: And Then The Fight Started ...

Oh, she's very careful not to leave any marks. She can take a cast iron frying pan and bounce it off the side of my head (sounding similar to church bells) with no resultant lacerations or swelling.

[1930artdeco]

So, since this engine has been opened-at least on the top end so far-it has become a Frankenstein motor. Not that that is bad, but just not what I was hoping for. I checked the numbers on the block, heads, exh and intake manifolds and I get different years. This is what I got:

Block= ECZ 6015C=292/312
Exhaust manifolds R=B9AE, L=EDB (58-59 292 manifolds)
Water outlet=ECE-8/3
Intake=ECZ-9425-B

So my guess is this, the engine is a genuine low mileage 312 (well at least at this point in time) that went to the fairlane I got it out of. But at some point the heads and manifolds got replaced along with the valley pan. The only reason I say this about the pan is that it was designed with a PCV valve in it from the factory. It has a stamped indentation where the valve sits so I don't think it is a later mod.

Mike


K, the 4100 on this car came with an electric choke? Why? I thought they all were mechanical pulling heat from the manifold. That is preferable as there are fewer possible problems.

[Dobie Gillis]

It's a Ford/Autolite 4100. They came out in 1957. To my knowledge they were all electric choke. These are great carbs, prolly about as close to set it and forget it as it gets. The venturis are annular discharge, good for gas mileage and performance. If you don't want it I would be happy to get it out of your way...

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

K, the 4100 on this car came with an electric choke? Why? I thought they all were mechanical pulling heat from the manifold. That is preferable as there are fewer possible problems.

You can purchase ELECTRIC CHOKE KITS.

In all actuality, an electric choke is a better performer. Much less maintenance and mechanical problems.

Originally Posted by Dobie Gillis

It's a Ford/Autolite 4100. They came out in 1957. To my knowledge they were all electric choke.

It is a FORD carb (designed by HOLLEY for FORD -1958 Model Run).

AUTOLITE and MOTORCRAFT were marketing terms.

All had hot air chokes

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

So, since this engine has been opened-at least on the top end so far-it has become a Frankenstein motor. Not that that is bad, but just not what I was hoping for. I checked the numbers on the block, heads, exh and intake manifolds and I get different years. This is what I got:

Block= ECZ 6015C=292/312
Exhaust manifolds R=B9AE, L=EDB (58-59 292 manifolds)
Water outlet=ECE-8/3
Intake=ECZ-9425-B

So my guess is this, the engine is a genuine low mileage 312 (well at least at this point in time) that went to the fairlane I got it out of. But at some point the heads and manifolds got replaced along with the valley pan. The only reason I say this about the pan is that it was designed with a PCV valve in it from the factory. It has a stamped indentation where the valve sits so I don't think it is a later mod.

Mike

This engine was pulled from a 57 FORD sitting in a salvage yard?

My thoughts ( ) is that somewhere in the engines service history, the heads were replaced as possibly the assembly heads needed servicing, and the later heads were probably cheaper from a salvage yard than having the originals machined. And they lowered CR enabling using regular gasoline.

The right EXH MAN goes with the later heads (DATE CODES are necessary to nail down what is correct and what is not).

As for the valley pan, most likely a PCV upgrade from a later engine to rid the road draft system.

The intake is correct for 1957. Is there any ID on the carb?

The engine was upgraded through its service history as FYB TECH progressed.

[1930artdeco]

The car I got it from got decapitated by a semi trailer and it was last registered in the 90’s. So it has been sitting for awhile. As for the carb, it has a Napa electric choke and I thought those were a product of the 70-80’s🤔. Here is the carb tag, so it was replaced as well, probably at the same time is my guess.

[scicala]

C5AF-F is a '65 Ford 352 Autolite 4100 carburetor. Pretty sure it may say "112" on the driver's side of the front bowl, which indicates the venturi dia. (1.12"), which in this case would be the 600 CFM version.
Also, there were some 292's built with the ECZ-C block too. Best to check the crankshaft ID to tell for sure. Go to www.ford-y-block.com, and go to the part with "312 identification".
Also, 312 main bearing caps have ECZ cast on them.

Sal

[scicala]

Originally Posted by Dobie Gillis

It's a Ford/Autolite 4100. They came out in 1957. To my knowledge they were all electric choke. These are great carbs, prolly about as close to set it and forget it as it gets. The venturis are annular discharge, good for gas mileage and performance. If you don't want it I would be happy to get it out of your way...

The Autolite 4100 was never original with an electric heated choke thermostat cap. That didn't happen until the 4100 was gone in the 70's.
It's an easy conversion for cars that have a rotted out choke warm air tube. Only costa about $15 to do it.

Sal

[1930artdeco]

Got the valley an oil pans off, not to bad. It has 312 caps🎉🎉. Some sludge but not too bad. So as long as the bearings are good, I will regasket her and button her up.

Mike

[darrell]

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this is a rebuilt engine.the main caps are numbered.the steam holes were a giveaway anyway.

[1930artdeco]

I thought the numbers cast into the main caps are how iD a 312 vs a 292?. Ok, so now I give up thinking I have a low mileage original bottom end��☹️. Since it has been rebuilt, they at least did some upgrades to it. Either way it will get cleaned up and stuffed-as long as the bearings are good.

Mike

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by 1930artdeco

I thought the numbers cast into the main caps are how iD a 312 vs a 292?. ...

Yes, there are only two choices for the three letter prefix cast into the main bearing caps.
ECZ is the 312.
EBU is everything else, unless it's a DIY modified engine with a 312 crank that's been turned down to fit in the 'smaller' block.

[darrell]

im not talking about that you can see 2 stamped into the main cap.they didnt come numbered

[1930artdeco]

OK, got it. I missed that. OK, so I have rebuild, at least I have a Y block that I am hoping is in good shape. What is the opinion of me popping the caps and plastigauging the bearings?


Mike

[darrell]

have a look at them at least scrap the top clean on one of the pistons to see if its oversize.im guessing it is.

[1930artdeco]

Probably are but I could not see any numbers in them.