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Old 01-03-2020, 04:36 PM   #1
35fordtn
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Default Attention distributor rebuilders!

I havenít had to deal with bad points in some time now... but.... Iíve had 9 bad sets this week alone that came i. Our recent shipment of 35 sets. They are standard brand and given standard makes echlins points they could be at risk as well. The good news is you can spot the bad ones right out of the box. The top one in each photo is a bad one compared to a good one. Notice the sharp bend mark near the contact point on the good one compared to the smooth radius bend on the bad one. While they will setup fine, when running them on the sun machine they lack enough sprint rate causing them to miss or ďbounceĒ at a very low RPM.





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Old 01-03-2020, 04:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Can't really see any appreciable difference???????? Are you talking about the steel strap or the phenolic material?
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Old 01-03-2020, 04:56 PM   #3
35fordtn
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Maybe this photo will help...




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Old 01-03-2020, 05:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Yes, it's apparent now. Can you reshape the strap by hand forming or is it junk?
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Old 01-03-2020, 05:06 PM   #5
35fordtn
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Yes, they can be reshaped, and I tried, but the spring steel when modified and bent around too much really gets weak afterwards.
The 21A distributor I tried them in would not go above 1900 RPMS before they points started to bounce.. After bending the springs around I could get it to 3380 rpms... Installed a good set and she ran up to 5750. This is the first time I have run into them shaped like that, and it was only a handful of them. I did not try another set of these after the first set proved it was a issue.
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Old 01-03-2020, 05:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Nice catch! Manufacturer/Supplier notified?

As seen on Amazon >
https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Moto...ct_top?ie=UTF8

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Old 01-03-2020, 07:25 PM   #7
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

I donít care for these they do not have the brass ferrule for the post.
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Old 01-03-2020, 07:29 PM   #8
35fordtn
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnfind08 View Post
I donít care for these they do not have the brass ferrule for the post.
None of the NEW points except Carpenters have the bushing. Personally I have not seen a wear issue without the bushing, and have seen many instances where the bushing becomes seized to the breaker plate if any rust occurs, given there is no lubrication on the points.. Difference of opinion I guess.
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Old 01-03-2020, 07:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Are the bad ones "Made in China"?
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Old 01-03-2020, 08:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

35fordtn thanks very much for that information.
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Old 01-04-2020, 04:58 AM   #11
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Mike, Are these in a Echlin box from NAPA OR a different box??? I have noticed Standard Motor Products ( who now owns Echlin) has a couple grades of parts. The later contacts are the same issue , Standard poor quality but the Echlin quality still is good..... Just another company trying to make profits ...??
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Old 01-04-2020, 08:47 AM   #12
35fordtn
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Jim,
These are the higher grade standard points FD6770. I literally can not tell a single difference visually or performance in them and the CS47ís, however if this issue continues Iíll swap. Have you run into this?
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Old 01-04-2020, 09:02 AM   #13
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

(Intentional double post)

Michael, you do a lot of distributors therefore gather a bunch more experience on certain issues than we amateurs do. Thanks for sharing.

Your mentioning point bounce and the frequency that you encounter it ... do you use a spring tension gauge? Is it a reliable indicator of point function?

As a separate question, with the number of bad points that are being supplied, how do you avoid selling some of them and having to deal with come-backs?

Wouldn't a roadside fruit and vegetable stand be less trouble?
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Old 01-04-2020, 09:16 AM   #14
35fordtn
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoop View Post
Michael, you do a lot of distributors therefore gather a bunch more experience on certain issues than we amateurs do. Thanks for sharing.

Your mentioning point bounce and the frequency that you encounter it ... do you use a spring tension gauge? Is it a reliable indicator of point function?

As a separate question, with the number of bad points that are being supplied, how do you avoid selling some of them and having to deal with come-backs?

Wouldn't a roadside fruit and vegetable stand be less trouble?
Fruit stand sounds like a good idea I should consider it, thanks.

I mention point bounce so much as I have high expectations for ones that get sent in to me to be rebuilt. These days with the Hot Rod drags and Hill climbs and such, guys are winding these flatheads to high rpms. That and the fact that most every distributor I test that someone Built themselves has either a point bounce issue or sticky advance weights, or the initial timing is off. I likely make too big of a deal about this point bounce or double arrow on the machine but it’s the one thing that a petronix unit has over points.

I’ve had comebacks on distributors as to be expected, but never on a set of points. I have a tension gauge but mostly only use it on the 32-35 distributors. I used to sell Carpenter points years ago when I first started my little business but didn’t know any better at the time. For years now I’ve sold and used the same Standard and Echlin points (I cant see the difference) with zero issues and haven’t had to “check” the ones sold until this week.

Sure have learned a lot over the years reading posts from yourself and Jim Linder on here. These early v-8 and v-12 distributors just fascinate me. I don’t do and haven’t done as many as Jim so I still look forward his experiences and advice. These days most of the distributors i do are for bigger vendors that resale them.
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:08 AM   #15
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Thanks for the heads up Mike.
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:58 AM   #16
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

It's amazing how much that braked crease in the spring changes the tension rate for the spring but it has a big effect from good tension to loosy goosy. A lot of Standard and Echlin stuff has been assembled in Mexico but I have no idea now. Things change quickly in this day and age. Some stuff that was changed to over the border assembly has been changed back due to quality control and slower than normal production. It depends on how heavily they invested in Mexican production.
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Old 01-05-2020, 07:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

I talked to my inside guy at Standard today and he said.....

Most of this stuff we manufacture ourselves , but as demand falls off , we build a stock load and shut it down. In some areas where we ran out its been outsourced, and its impossible to find a reliable source for the old stuff?? Will get with the project team tomorrow for a better look.

In my opinion the Echlin has always been better quality than the Standard...
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Old 01-05-2020, 08:03 PM   #18
35fordtn
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Jim until Iím proven otherwise Iím convinced Standard, Echlin, And Airtex wells are all coming out of the same factory line. When the LF stationary point was not bent at a 90 angle for the short period of time the same problem was across the board amongst brands, and the spring tension seems to be the exact same amongst all three. I use echlin many times but primarily standard and just canít find a difference


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Old 01-05-2020, 08:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

[QUOTE=35fordtn;1838373]Jim until I’m proven otherwise I’m convinced Standard, Echlin, And Airtex wells are all coming out of the same factory line. When the LF stationary point was not bent at a 90 angle for the short period of time the same problem was across the board amongst brands, and the spring tension seems to be the exact same amongst all three. I use echlin many times but primarily standard and just can’t find a difference



We will have the answer to those questions this week, even google shows a difference from NAPA and Standard in the catalog pics....... And theres a big difference in pricing with the Standards being quite a bit cheaper........

My friend at Standard says :

Echlin, AC Delco, Standard, BWD, and Duralast are all the same bulk number, coming from the same vendor.

Not sure if the differences you're experiencing is an old inventory, or rebox issue.


Could be the vendor has changed tooling etc ???
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Old 01-17-2020, 07:24 PM   #20
35fordtn
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Default Re: Attention distributor rebuilders!

Jim,
I this week ordered 15 sets of standard points and had to return 9 of them. Went to my local Napa and had them order In 10 sets of echlin, and luckily only had to return two of the ten sets.

As you have likely experienced, the LH stationary point on both brands often needs slight bending (no big deal).

Today I got in a set of WVE brand points. They seemed to fit and adjust far better than the others, however they look the same. Maybe it was luck or maybe they are better, and maybe they are made in the same plant as the others; who knows.

The company is owned by NGK and has no affiliation with standard. They have the same part# as the airtex wells points which also has no affiliation with standard. The only problem is they are expensive (twice the price). I also tried a set of carpenter points and threw them in the trash before I even finished installing them.

Maybe Iím over reacting like always on this recent point issue. But for some reason itís driving me nuts







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