The Ford Barn

35fordtn · 03-17-2020, 05:26 PM

Just a a FYI.....

In the last 6 months I have installed seven sets of the 32-34 reproduction 3.54 gears. on each one it was necessary, ABSOLUTELY necessary to shim the 4221 carrier bearing on the ring gear a minimum of .030". If you do not check this I can assure you WILL have issues. This seems a lot but can be made up with gasket shims. Also, before pre-determining the pinion back lash, I break in the gears with a drill and a socket made from a spline adapter. This wears off any rough machining areas, which inevitably changes the backlash..

For those of you curious how to shim the carrier bearing, a set of arbor shims in the proper size works, or we sell them in our store.

rotorwrench · 03-17-2020, 05:40 PM

Where are the gear sets made if you don't mind me asking. I have an older set of Italian made gears for the later 6-spline banjos that had dimensional problems but it's a different type of problem. They must have something off on their final width dimension if they are all like that. 60 thousandths total is dam near 1/16". I wonder about the replacement side bearings & cups too on their dimensions. Can you tell where the problem might be?

Bored&Stroked · 03-17-2020, 06:38 PM

I just installed a set in my 32 last summer - did not need to do what you did, but I did need to clearance the bell on the ring gear side - such that the ring gear didn't touch and grind on it. I used all NOS Ford bearings and a NOS set of spider gears, etc.. I achieved a pretty good contact pattern with the gears and did not have to shim the pinion as some have done. Also the preload on the pinion and the assembled ring/pinion was where I wanted it to be.

barnfind08 · 03-17-2020, 07:37 PM

Just need to use USA original bearings is what I have been thinking all along. Maybe because that’s all I use or sell. Can’t speak for the reproduction ring and pinions because I have never bought any.

35fordtn · 03-17-2020, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I just installed a set in my 32 last summer - did not need to do what you did, but I did need to clearance the bell on the ring gear side - such that the ring gear didn't touch and grind on it. I used all NOS Ford bearings and a NOS set of spider gears, etc.. I achieved a pretty good contact pattern with the gears and did not have to shim the pinion as some have done. Also the preload on the pinion and the assembled ring/pinion was where I wanted it to be.

The reason I shim the carrier bearing is too not have to grind on the axle housing. The first one I ground the housing.

I have tried NOS, NEW Timken, NEW SKE, and Lastly NEW off brand bearings and the result is the same with each.

Naturally I'd use genuine Ford 3.54 gears but they are far few in existance.
On the reproduction gears I shim the pinion .010" but, they would be just fine without shimming the pinion, but the carrier is a MUST, unless as mentioned you grind the housing.

If you do not shim them the ring gear WILL rub the housing; unless of course you grind the snot out of the housing.

JM 35 Sedan · 03-17-2020, 10:24 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Where are the gear sets made if you don't mind me asking. I have an older set of Italian made gears for the later 6-spline banjos that had dimensional problems but it's a different type of problem. They must have something off on their final width dimension if they are all like that. 60 thousandths total is dam near 1/16". I wonder about the replacement side bearings & cups too on their dimensions. Can you tell where the problem might be?

I was told previously that all of these repro ring and pinion gear sets, being sold by our well known parts dealer's here in the USA, are all coming from the same source in Italy. Maybe this situation has now changed.

35fordtn · 03-18-2020, 12:02 AM

Yes, they still come from italy

deuce5wndw · 03-18-2020, 08:02 AM

Is there enough meat on the ring gear to check in a lathe and grind the required clearance?

35fordtn · 03-18-2020, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deuce5wndw

Is there enough meat on the ring gear to check in a lathe and grind the required clearance?

Yes, there is. But, for me it's been easiest to just shim the carrier.

rotorwrench · 03-18-2020, 10:22 AM

I had to surface grind the widest tips of each of the pinion teeth on the set I have. They wouldn't fit through the bore of the banjo center section. They are a well made gear set but they aren't 3.54:1 due to the tooth count being different than the original 3.54:1 sets. They are 3.56:1 if I remember correctly. I know there were more than a few folks that had the same problem when they came out around 15 years ago or so.

Whatever they used for a pattern gear was off or they didn't translate it well on these new sets. I just wonder if they are CNC made or if they still use a hobbing machine and machine out the blanks.

03-17-2020, 05:26 PM	#1
35fordtn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: McMinnville, TN Posts: 2,327	1932-34 Ford 3.54 reproduction gears Just a a FYI..... In the last 6 months I have installed seven sets of the 32-34 reproduction 3.54 gears. on each one it was necessary, ABSOLUTELY necessary to shim the 4221 carrier bearing on the ring gear a minimum of .030". If you do not check this I can assure you WILL have issues. This seems a lot but can be made up with gasket shims. Also, before pre-determining the pinion back lash, I break in the gears with a drill and a socket made from a spline adapter. This wears off any rough machining areas, which inevitably changes the backlash.. For those of you curious how to shim the carrier bearing, a set of arbor shims in the proper size works, or we sell them in our store.

03-17-2020, 05:40 PM	#2
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: 1932-34 Ford 3.54 reproduction gears Where are the gear sets made if you don't mind me asking. I have an older set of Italian made gears for the later 6-spline banjos that had dimensional problems but it's a different type of problem. They must have something off on their final width dimension if they are all like that. 60 thousandths total is dam near 1/16". I wonder about the replacement side bearings & cups too on their dimensions. Can you tell where the problem might be?

03-17-2020, 06:38 PM	#3
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,062	Re: 1932-34 Ford 3.54 reproduction gears I just installed a set in my 32 last summer - did not need to do what you did, but I did need to clearance the bell on the ring gear side - such that the ring gear didn't touch and grind on it. I used all NOS Ford bearings and a NOS set of spider gears, etc.. I achieved a pretty good contact pattern with the gears and did not have to shim the pinion as some have done. Also the preload on the pinion and the assembled ring/pinion was where I wanted it to be.

03-17-2020, 07:37 PM	#4
barnfind08 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 893	Re: 1932-34 Ford 3.54 reproduction gears Just need to use USA original bearings is what I have been thinking all along. Maybe because that’s all I use or sell. Can’t speak for the reproduction ring and pinions because I have never bought any.

03-18-2020, 12:02 AM	#7
35fordtn Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: McMinnville, TN Posts: 2,327	Re: 1932-34 Ford 3.54 reproduction gears Yes, they still come from italy

03-18-2020, 08:02 AM	#8
deuce5wndw Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Liberty, KY Posts: 900	Re: 1932-34 Ford 3.54 reproduction gears Is there enough meat on the ring gear to check in a lathe and grind the required clearance?

03-18-2020, 10:22 AM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: 1932-34 Ford 3.54 reproduction gears I had to surface grind the widest tips of each of the pinion teeth on the set I have. They wouldn't fit through the bore of the banjo center section. They are a well made gear set but they aren't 3.54:1 due to the tooth count being different than the original 3.54:1 sets. They are 3.56:1 if I remember correctly. I know there were more than a few folks that had the same problem when they came out around 15 years ago or so. Whatever they used for a pattern gear was off or they didn't translate it well on these new sets. I just wonder if they are CNC made or if they still use a hobbing machine and machine out the blanks.