Smooth gear changes?

[Allanw]

Hi again,

We took the car out for a bit of a cruise over the weekend, hoping to master the gearchanges!

I drove it most of the way, and had some very good changes, but with a couple of "notchy" ones.

I wanted a couple of pointers before trying again!

I double clutch both up and down. Going up, I've been pushing the lever into gear as soon as I get the clutch in again, and giving the lever a swift push to minimise the grind.

Dad wanted to practise in a carpark (his daily BMW has syncro on ALL gear, including reverse!) and while his speeds were lower than mine, he managed it with less grinding, even without double clutching and with some very slow changes.

Do I need to slow mine down, or was it just that he was at slower speeds than me? it's usually the 2nd to 3rd (the BIG gap) that I crunch, so it's maybe because I haven't let the engine slow enough with the clutch out before declutching and putting into 3rd?

I realise it very hard to do it words!

I just thought that the change would need to be swift (but gentle) to avoid the grind - like when you put an outboard motor into gear, if you do it slow the "dog's" clunk for longer than a swifter movement. Maybe it's just the engine revs I'm not waiting long enough for?

Also, when changing down 3rd to 2nd, it grinds a bit when you take it out of 3rd, lke it just touches the edge of second - is that something I should adjust?

Allan
29 Tudor, Canadian RHD
Whangarei NZ

[James Rogers]

Slow down. You have to let the engine and transmission synchronize by getting to the right speed. You probably are pulling the lever out of third too fast and just touching second. Try to be a little slower here also.

[roccaas]

Take the car out cold, with the tranny fluid cold. Shift up without DC'ing by doing it slowly.

When you say you are touching 2nd on DDC from 3rd, are you trying to downshift? If so, stab the accelerator to bring the revs up to match the cluster and road speed. Same as you would do on a Bimmer.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I upshift at about 15 and 25 and give the engine time to slow down with the clutch OUT during the double clutch. As James said don't speed shift. When downshifting from third to second you'll find you need to rev the engine more than you thought. I almost never downshift from second to first.

[theHIGHLANDER]

Timing is everything, and it always seems easier and smoother in the 1st 5-10miles. That said, here's my gig. 1st to 2nd, I roll out to about 15MPH (I listen to the engine) and at the same time I'm easing off the gas pedal I'm moving the lever to neutral and then begining the double clutch action. I clutch in as it's coming out, out again for a moment and in for the 1-2 shift. From 2nd to 3rd I do the same, but my double clutch move gets a wee bit of throttle in neutral with the clutch out, but only if I'm heading up a road for higher speeds. I don't do the gas pedal on slower streets. For down shifts (3rd to 2nd only), I go to neutral, clutch out, rev the motor some, and just catch the gear as the revs are coming down. This sometimes leads to a minor thunk in the gears, but usually not a full on grind. All of it is easier when the oil's thick and warm and the parts slide around better.

For what it's worth, I shift Deusenberg's planetary trans the same way, but almost NEVER down shift. A Deusy trans is worth $50K (!!) so one needs to be on their game when stirring up that gear box. It's all a matter of feel and timing, and learning your transmission's "secret handshake" is part of the fun.

[V4F]

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double clutching is a way of timing the shift . motor rpm must match mph . down shifting is a whole nother art . practice is how you get better ........

[Special Coupe Frank]

Also, make sure you are using a heavy gear oil in your transmission. Slows the gears down quicker for easier shifting. 85-90 or 85-140 is too thin.

Try Pennrite's second-heaviest for Veteran / Vintage Autos; I believe that is their equivalent to our 600-weight gear oil.

Also, make sure you engine is not idling too fast - 400-450 rpm, max. Too fast an idle makes shifting difficult.

As Tom W. mentioned, I am shifting out of First by 15 mph and out of 2nd around 25 mph. I accomplish the "de-clutch - neutral/clutch-out - clutch-in/upshift" while saying "one-mississippi, two-mississippi, three-mississippi", w/o rushing through it.

I suppose you could substitute "kookaburra" or "kangaroo" for "Mississippi", if you like...

[sturgis 39]

There is usually 500 rpm between gears.

[29ModelA]

I don't understand why everyone tries to double clutch on the upshift? The copy of the Ford manual I have says it should not be necessary.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by 29ModelA

I don't understand why everyone tries to double clutch on the upshift? The copy of the Ford manual I have says it should not be necessary.

I find it a quicker up-shift if I let the clutch-out when going through neutral during up-shift.

I can shift it clash-free either way.

[Special Coupe Frank]

As for " the secret handshake" or "Sweet spot", every tranny has one, and it is unique to that vehicle.

Last week, I test- drove a '51 Studebaker 3/4 ton pick-up with an un-synchronized 4-speed... it wasn't until the last couple traffic lights of my 1/2 hour test drive that I was finally getting the hang of that particular vehicle... and I had once owned a '48 International with the same transmission, so I thought I should have been familiar enough with it to have just "slid right in"...

Maybe they need some 600-W in that Studie's B-W...

[PC/SR]

It is not necessary to double clutch when upshifting. It jsut creates more work. PS has the method. Practice in a parking lot until you get the feel by engine speed, vibrations, etc. Pretty soon you will learn how to shift with no clutch at all.
Out here in Calif we call it "bonding with your car."

[Allanw]

You guys are awesome! I've read all replied entirely and hope the knowledge will osmosise into by brain!

I read somewhere that i needed double clutching on upshifts... dunno where now! I can do the perfect on cold oil (I guess it so thick, it acts like a synchro anyway).

I understand the mechanics of it all, it's just the details and feelings I haven't got yet.

I think I'm actually better at double clutch down shifts - I do that in some other cars, like my VW Transporter, if I'm changing into a gear that will give me very high rpms (like into 3rd at 5500 rpm to pass a truck!).

When I come out of 3rd and it grinds a bit on second, I'm not trying to downshift right then, it seems to just catch the edge of second, it's like 2nd is too close to the neutral plane, I then double clutch and go into second. It's OK, but I just wonder if there is an adjustment of the lever or something?

OK, so I'm going to try:

1) no double clutch on the upshifts
2) Don't hurry the change
3) Shift the lever slower
4) Change the gear oil (I have some from Macs, which I'm told isn't the best, but it's here anyway!)

So I can just put gentle pressure on the lever and it will slip in when the teeth are aligned?

I'm pretty lucky where the car is, it's very wide roads that aren't to busy outside of hometime! If we stuff it up, we can move over and the traffic goes past :-)

I might have a wee drive this afternoon and see if I can get it a bit better.

Thanks again!!!!!!

[PC/SR]

The cold oil is thicker, and slows the gears down sooner. Same thing happens with a lightened flywheel. Just practice a bit and you will be able to do it at about any reasonable speed.

[eagle]

Sounds like you have all the steps right, now with some practice you'll be fine. One thing to read, the original Ford owners manual, it gives the speeds for upshifts. It takes practice to do it right when the traffic is thick and you feel a bit flustered. Take it easy and give it plenty of time in neutral. (between gears)

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Allanw

You guys are awesome! I've read all replied entirely and hope the knowledge will osmosise into by brain!

I read somewhere that i needed double clutching on upshifts... dunno where now! I can do the perfect on cold oil (I guess it so thick, it acts like a synchro anyway).

I understand the mechanics of it all, it's just the details and feelings I haven't got yet.

I think I'm actually better at double clutch down shifts - I do that in some other cars, like my VW Transporter, if I'm changing into a gear that will give me very high rpms (like into 3rd at 5500 rpm to pass a truck!).

When I come out of 3rd and it grinds a bit on second, I'm not trying to downshift right then, it seems to just catch the edge of second, it's like 2nd is too close to the neutral plane, I then double clutch and go into second. It's OK, but I just wonder if there is an adjustment of the lever or something?

OK, so I'm going to try:

1) no double clutch on the upshifts
2) Don't hurry the change
3) Shift the lever slower
4) Change the gear oil (I have some from Macs, which I'm told isn't the best, but it's here anyway!)

So I can just put gentle pressure on the lever and it will slip in when the teeth are aligned?

I'm pretty lucky where the car is, it's very wide roads that aren't to busy outside of hometime! If we stuff it up, we can move over and the traffic goes past :-)

I might have a wee drive this afternoon and see if I can get it a bit better.

Thanks again!!!!!!

Allan,
If your detents are "crisp," it may tip second when just pushing it out of high. Just "tap" it out of high, into neutral, with the open palm of your hand. Bill W.

[V4F]

double clutching is just a way to time the shift . i learned on a big truck . you ought to try a main box with a brownie ! now thats a different can of worms ! LOL its mind over fear !

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by steve norcal

double clutching is just a way to time the shift . i learned on a big truck . you ought to try a main box with a brownie ! now thats a different can of worms ! LOL its mind over fear !

Yes Steve!
I remember, goin' down hill, Brownie stuck in NEUTRAL, RRR, RRR, KUKLUNK RRR, RRR, SWEAT, SWEAT, tryin' to get the dang! thing into "UNDER!" Bill W.

[Allanw]

Thanks guys!

Haven't had a chance to drive it again yet, and I think the gear oil needs doing first!

Plus the brake light has stopped going, so I best fix that first!

Cheers,