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03-07-2013, 10:57 PM
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Direct Enclosed Transport Since 2006
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Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
On one of the many forums I belong to, this guy posted a detailed
analysis of various oil brands that includes additive amounts .... Please note that the findings of the oil(s) tested below were done by him and not by me ..... There are over 80 oil brands he tested listed below ! I found it interesting - maybe you will too ....  You might also want to consider THE BENEFITS OF USING THINNER OIL: • Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating vital engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can. • Thinner oil flows more at normal operating temperatures. And oil flow is lubrication, but oil pressure is NOT. Oil pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. Of course you need enough oil pressure to move the oil, but oil pressure in and of itself, is NOT what you are after. Running thicker oil just to up the oil pressure is the wrong thing to do, because that only reduces flow and lubrication. • The old rule of thumb of 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm is perfectly fine. Running thicker oil to achieve any more pressure than that, will simply reduce flow for no good reason. It is best to run the thinnest oil you can, that will maintain the rule of thumb oil pressure. • Oil flow is what carries heat away from vital engine components. Engine components are directly oil cooled, but only indirectly water cooled. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will be driving up engine component temps. Thinner oil will keep engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster. • Thinner oil will increase HP because of less viscous drag, compared to thicker oils. Almost no one should ever need to run oil thicker than a multi-viscosity 30 weight. The lower the first number cold viscosity rating, the better the cold flow. For example, 0W30 flows WAY better cold than 20W50. And 0W30 flows WAY better cold than straight 30wt, which is horrible for cold start-up flow and should be avoided at all cost. And the lower the second number hot viscosity rating, the better the hot flow. For example, 0W30 flows WAY better hot than 20W50. Here's the "Wear Protection" ranking of all the oils I've tested over the past year. The higher the psi value, the better the protection: 1. 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 115,612 psi I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification. The bottle says, “No leading synthetic oil provides better wear protection”. For once, a product’s hype turns out to be true. zinc = 806 ppm phos = 812 ppm moly = 66 ppm 2. "USED" 5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN conventional with 5,000 miles on it = 112,992 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD total anti-wear = TBD The wear protection capability psi value shown here is 13% "higher" than the wear protection capability psi value for this oil when it was brand new oil. Repeated testing of this used oil showed consistent values within a few percent of this posted value. Those test results were averaged and came out to the final 112,992 psi value shown here. So, the number is correct. I've tested two USED oils so far, and both times the used oil final psi values have been noticeably and consistently higher that the new oil testing performed on those oils. The new and used oils no doubt came from different batches of oil, because of the purchasing and testing time differences. But, the consistent improvement of the used oil's wear protection capability, does indicate a change in the oil as it ages. And the important thing is that testing proves that there is NO LOSS of wear protection in used oil, even though the anti-wear component levels drop SIGNIFICANTLY due to normal depletion over time. Higher levels of anti-wear components only provides "longer" wear protection, NOT "more" wear protection. As long as those anti-wear components are not completely exhausted, you are still good to go. These results also show that the normal practice of "Wear Testing" brand new oil is representative of the oil's overall wear protection capability, since the used oil’s wear protection capability does not drop. 3. "USED" 5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional with 5,000 miles on it = 110,505 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD total anti-wear = TBD The wear protection capability psi value shown here is 16% "higher" than the wear protection capability psi value for this oil when it was brand new oil. Repeated testing of this used oil showed consistent values within a few percent of this posted value. Those test results were averaged and came out to the final 110,505 psi value shown here. So, the number is correct. I've tested three USED oils so far, and each time the used oil final psi values have been noticeably and consistently higher that the new oil testing performed on those oils. The new and used oils no doubt came from different batches of oil, because of the purchasing and testing time differences. But, the consistent improvement of the used oil's wear protection capability, does indicate a change in the oil as it ages. And the important thing is that testing proves that there is NO LOSS of wear protection in used oil, even though the anti-wear component levels drop SIGNIFICANTLY due to normal depletion over time. Higher levels of anti-wear components only provides "longer" wear protection, NOT "more" wear protection. As long as those anti-wear components are not completely exhausted, you are still good to go. These results also show that the normal practice of "Wear Testing" brand new oil is representative of the oil's overall wear protection capability, since the used oil’s wear protection capability does not drop. 4. “USED” 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic with 5,000 miles on it = 107,391 psi zinc = 791 ppm (down 251 ppm or down 24% from new) phos =643 ppm (down 214 ppm or down 25% from new) moly = 67 ppm (down 33 ppm or down 33% from new) titanium = 36 ppm (down 13 ppm or down 27% from new) total anti-wear = 1537 ppm (down 511 ppm or down 25% from new) The wear protection capability psi value shown here is 7% "higher" than the wear protection capability psi value for this oil when it was brand new oil. Repeated testing of this used oil showed consistent values within a few percent of this posted value. Those test results were averaged and came out to the final 107,391 psi value shown here. So, the number is correct. I've tested three USED oils so far, and each time the used oil final psi values have been noticeably and consistently higher that the new oil testing performed on those oils. The new and used oils no doubt came from different batches of oil, because of the purchasing and testing time differences. But, the consistent improvement of the used oil's wear protection capability, does indicate a change in the oil as it ages. And the important thing is that testing proves that there is NO LOSS of wear protection in used oil, even though the anti-wear component levels drop SIGNIFICANTLY due to normal depletion over time. Higher levels of anti-wear components only provides "longer" wear protection, NOT "more" wear protection. As long as those anti-wear components are not completely exhausted, you are still good to go. These results also show that the normal practice of "Wear Testing" brand new oil is representative of the oil's overall wear protection capability, since the used oil’s wear protection capability does not drop. 5. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only synthetic = 106,505 psi zinc = 2642 ppm phos = 3489 ppm moly = 1764 ppm NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use. 6. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 105,875 psi zinc = 801 ppm phos = 842 ppm moly = 112 ppm 7. 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series 25,000 miles, API SN synthetic = 105,008 psi zinc = 824 ppm phos = 960 ppm moly = 161 ppm 8. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi zinc = 1669 ppm phos = 1518 ppm moly = 784 ppm NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use. 9. 5W50 Motorcraft, API SN synthetic = 103,517 psi zinc = 606 ppm phos = 742 ppm moly = 28 ppm 10. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi zinc = 1472 ppm phos = 1544 ppm moly = 3 ppm 11. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi zinc = 1180 ppm phos = 1112 ppm moly = 162 ppm 12. 5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN conventional = 100,011 psi This one only costs $4.29 per quart at the Auto Parts Store where I bought it. zinc = 1018 ppm phos = 728 ppm moly = 161 ppm 13. 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic = 99,983 psi zinc = 1042 ppm phos = 857 ppm moly = 100 ppm titanium = 49 ppm 14. 20W50 Castrol GTX ,API SN conventional = 96,514 psi zinc = 610 ppm phos = 754 ppm moly = 94 ppm 15. 30 wt Red Line Race Oil synthetic = 96,470 psi zinc = 2207 ppm phos = 2052 ppm moly = 1235 ppm NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use. 16. 0W20 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, API SN synthetic = 96,364 psi zinc = 742 ppm phos = 677 ppm moly = 81 ppm 17. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN synthetic = 95,920 psi zinc = 877 ppm phos = 921 ppm moly = 72 ppm 18. 5W30 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic = 95,717 psi zinc = 818 ppm phos = 883 ppm moly = 90 ppm titanium = 44 ppm 19. 10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 NASCAR Racing Oil synthetic = 95,543 psi zinc = 743 ppm phos = 802 ppm moly = 1125 ppm NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use. 20. 5W20 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 95,543 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD NOTE: Oil numbers 18 and 19 were tested weeks apart, but due to the similarities in their wear scar sizes, their averages ended up the same. 21. 5W30 Castrol GTX ,API SN conventional = 95,392 psi zinc = 830 ppm phos = 791 ppm moly = 1 ppm 22. 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil synthetic = 95,360 psi zinc = 1431 ppm phos = 1441 ppm moly = 52 ppm 23. 5W30 Valvoline SynPower, API SN synthetic = 94,942 psi zinc = 969 ppm phos = 761 ppm moly = 0 ppm 24. 5W30 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 94,744 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 25. 5W20 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 94,663 psi zinc = 764 ppm phos = 698 ppm moly = 76 ppm 26. 5W20 Valvoline SynPower, API SN synthetic = 94,460 psi zinc = 1045 ppm phos = 742 ppm moly = 0 ppm 27. 5W30 Lucas, API SN conventional = 92,073 psi zinc = 992 ppm phos = 760 ppm moly = 0 ppm 28. 5W30 O'Reilly (house brand), API SN conventional = 91,433 psi This one only costs $3.99 per quart at the Auto Parts Store where I bought it. zinc = 863 ppm phos = 816 ppm moly = 0 ppm 29. 5W30 Maxima RS530 Synthetic Racing Oil = 91,162 psi zinc = 2162 ppm phos = 2294 ppm moly = 181 ppm 30. 5W30 Red Line, API SN synthetic = 91,028 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 31. 5W20 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 90,434 psi zinc = 964 ppm phos = 892 ppm moly = 0 ppm 32. 10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL semi-synthetic = 90,226 psi zinc = 1221 ppm phos = 955 ppm moly = 99 ppm 33. 10W60 Castrol TWS Motorsport, API SJ conventional = 90,163 psi This oil is manufactured in Europe and is sold in the US for BMW models M3, M5, M6, Z4M, and Z8. zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 34. 5W20 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 90,144 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 35. 30 wt Castrol Heavy Duty, API SM conventional = 88,089 psi zinc = 907 ppm phos = 829 ppm moly = 56 ppm 36. 20W50 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 87,930 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 37. 10W30 Joe Gibbs HR4 Hotrod Oil synthetic = 86,270 psi zinc = 1247 ppm phos = 1137 ppm moly = 24 ppm 38. 5W20 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 86,034 psi I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification. zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 39. 15W40 RED LINE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4/CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CF/CH-4/CF-4/SM/SL/SH/EO-O = 85,663 psi zinc = 1615 ppm phos = 1551 ppm moly = 173 ppm 40. 5W30 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 84,009 psi zinc = 942 ppm phos = 817 ppm moly = 0 ppm 41. 20W50 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 83,487 psi zinc = 588 ppm phos = 697 ppm moly = 0 ppm 42. 20W50 Kendall GT-1 High Performance with liquid titanium, API SN conventional = 83,365 psi zinc = 991 ppm phos = 1253 ppm moly = 57 ppm titanium = 84 ppm 43. 5W30 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15,000 mile, API SN synthetic = 83,263 psi zinc = 890 ppm phos = 819 ppm moly = 104 ppm 44. 0W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic = 82,867 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 45. 5W30 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 81,800 psi zinc = 1784 ppm phos = 1539 ppm moly = 598 ppm 46. 15W40 ROYAL PURPLE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4 /SM, CI-4 PLUS, CH-4, CI-4 = 76,997 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 47. 5W30 Lucas API SM synthetic = 76,584 psi zinc = 1134 ppm phos = 666 ppm moly = 0 ppm 48. 5W30 GM's AC Delco dexos 1 API SN semi-synthetic = 76,501 psi zinc = 878 ppm phos = 758 ppm moly = 72 ppm 49. 5W50 Castrol Edge with Syntec API SN, synthetic, formerly Castrol Syntec, black bottle = 75,409 psi zinc = 1252 ppm phos = 1197 ppm moly = 71 ppm 50. 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) synthetic = 74,860 psi zinc = 1421 ppm phos = 1338 ppm moly = 204 ppm NOTE: This particular bottle of oil was just opened, but was out of a 3 ½ year old case. 51. 5W40 MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 74,312 psi zinc = 1211 ppm phos = 1168 ppm moly = 2 ppm 52. 15W40 CHEVRON DELO 400LE Diesel Oil, conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM, = 73,520 psi zinc = 1519 ppm phos = 1139 ppm moly = 80 ppm 53. 15W40 MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 73,300 psi zinc = 1297 ppm phos = 1944 ppm moly = 46 ppm 54. 15W40 Farm Rated Heavy Duty Performance Diesel Oil conventional CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ = 73,176 psi zinc = 1325ppm phos = 1234 ppm moly = 2 ppm 55. 15W40 SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM = 72,022 psi zinc = 1454 ppm phos = 1062 ppm moly = 0 ppm 56. Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 Nitro 70 Racing Oil semi-synthetic = 72,003 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 57. 0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 71,377 psi zinc = 1621 ppm phos = 1437 ppm moly = 0 ppm 58. 15W40 “OLD” SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil conventional, API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4,CG-4,CF-4,CF,SL, SJ, SH = 71,214 psi zinc = 1171 ppm phos = 1186 ppm moly = 0 ppm 59. 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 71,206 psi zinc = 1557 ppm phos = 1651 ppm moly = 3 ppm 60. 15W40 VALVOLINE PREMIUM BLUE HEAVY DUTY DIESEL Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM = 70,869 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 61. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi zinc = 1,133 ppm phos = 1,168 ppm moly = 83 ppm 62. 5W40 CHEVRON DELO 400LE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, SL, SM = 69,631 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 63. 30wt Edelbrock Break-In Oil conventional = 69,160 psi zinc = 1545 ppm phos = 1465 ppm moly = 4 ppm 64. 5W30 Motorcraft, API SN synthetic = 68,782 psi zinc = 796 ppm phos = 830 ppm moly = 75 ppm 65. 10W40 Edelbrock synthetic = 68,603 psi zinc = 1193 ppm phos = 1146 ppm moly = 121 ppm This oil is manufactured for Edelbrock by Torco. 66. 5W40 SHELL ROTELLA T6 Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, SM, SL = 67,804 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 67. 15W40 LUCAS MAGNUM Diesel Oil, conventional, API CI-4,CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SL = 66,476 psi zinc = 1441 ppm phos = 1234 ppm moly = 76 ppm 68. 15W40 CASTROL GTX DIESEL Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4/SN = 66,323 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 69. 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street) synthetic = 66,211 psi zinc = 1774 ppm phos = 1347 ppm moly = 189 ppm 70. 10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil, API SJ conventional = 65,553 psi zinc = 1154 ppm phos = 1075 ppm moly = 0 ppm 71. 5W30 Klotz Estorlin Racing Oil, API SL synthetic = 64,175 psi zinc = 1765 ppm phos = 2468 ppm moly = 339 ppm 72. “ZDDPlus” added to Royal Purple 20W50, API SN, synthetic = 63,595 psi zinc = 2436 ppm (up 1848 ppm) phos = 2053 ppm (up 1356 ppm) moly = 2 ppm (up 2 ppm) The psi value here is 24% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Oil companies always say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware. 73. Royal Purple 10W30 Break-In Oil conventional = 62,931 psi zinc = 1170 ppm phos = 1039 ppm moly = 0 ppm 74. 10W30 Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Hi-Performance Oil, conventional = 62,538 psi zinc = 2116 ppm phos = 1855 ppm moly = 871 ppm 75. 0W20 Klotz Estorlin Racing Oil, API SL synthetic = 60,941 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 76. 10W30 Comp Cams Muscle Car & Street Rod Oil, synthetic blend = 60,413 psi zinc = 1673 ppm phos = 1114 ppm moly = 67 ppm This oil is manufactured for Comp Cams by Endure. 77. 10W40 Torco TR-1 Racing Oil with MPZ conventional = 59,905 psi zinc = 1456 ppm phos = 1150 ppm moly = 227 ppm 78. Summit Racing 10W40 Premium Racing Oil, API SL = 59,483 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 79. 10W40 Edelbrock conventional = 59,120 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD This oil is manufactured for Edelbrock by Torco. 80. 0W20 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 57,228 psi zinc = TBD phos = TBD moly = TBD 81. “ZDDPlus” added to O’Reilly (house brand) 5W30, API SN, conventional = 56,728 psi zinc = 2711 ppm (up 1848 ppm) phos = 2172 ppm (up 1356 ppm) moly = 2 ppm (up 2 ppm) The psi value here is a whopping 38% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Oil companies always say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware. 82. “ZDDPlus” added to Motorcraft 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 56,243 psi zinc = 2955 ppm (up 1848 ppm) phos = 2114 ppm (up 1356 ppm) moly = 76 ppm (up 2 ppm) The psi value here is 12% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Oil companies always say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware. 83. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Royal Purple 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 54,044 psi zinc = 1515 ppm (up 573 ppm) phos = 1334 ppm (up 517 ppm) moly = 15 ppm (up 15 ppm) The psi value here is a whopping 36% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Oil companies always say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware. 84. 10W30 Comp Cams Break-In Oil conventional = 51,749 psi zinc = 3004 ppm phos = 2613 ppm moly = 180 ppm 85. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Lucas 5W30, API SN, conventional = 51,545 psi zinc = 1565 ppm (up 573 ppm) phos = 1277 ppm (up 517 ppm) moly = 15 ppm (up 15 ppm) The psi value here is a “breath taking” 44% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Oil companies always say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware. 86. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Motorcraft 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 50,202 psi zinc = 1680 ppm (up 573 ppm) phos = 1275 ppm (up 517 ppm) moly = 89 ppm (up 15 ppm) The psi value here is 22% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Oil companies always say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware. 87. 30wt Lucas Break-In Oil conventional = 49,455 psi zinc = 4483 ppm phos = 3660 ppm moly = 3 ppm
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Click Here To See Where I Am Today What My Actual Customers Say Click Here Click Here To See Vehicles I Have Hauled Last edited by trulyvintage; 03-08-2013 at 02:28 AM. Reason: To clarify the source of the testing |
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03-07-2013, 11:14 PM
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#2 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
Whoa! Does that come in book form?
   Wow, just one reply and already has a low 1 star rating. So, who's the wise guy?
Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 03-07-2013 at 11:25 PM. |
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03-07-2013, 11:34 PM
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#3 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: FRESNO, CA
Posts: 12,560
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
Quote:
 here. NO! wasn't me. But have 1 question, did Jim type ALL that by hiself, or did he find that cute readhead typist that Bill's always talkin' about hiring? you know, the one with the cute butt! Bill needs her to count the ice cubes in the bottom freezer! Buster T.
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"THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF" |
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03-07-2013, 11:48 PM
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#4 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 1,279
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
Interesting stuff! My Dad told me waay back in the day that oil did not wear out, it just got dirty and this seems to confirm it. It also confirms the value of a filter.
What does the "psi" number mean? Is it a breakdown point in pounds per square inch, or what? Reason I ask is, are the high numbers necessary for an A, like if an A produces say 75000 "psi" whatever that is, is there any value in getting oil that is higher than that? Just asking, 'cause I don't know. Last edited by PC/SR; 03-07-2013 at 11:54 PM. |
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03-08-2013, 12:31 AM
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#5 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,919
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
Thank you for posting this. I find it both interesting and scary. Scary in that there seems to be, within the last few years, a trend to apply 'snake oil' tactics to evaluate and promote motor oils.
The above 'data' seems to imply that calculated ultimate film strength is an indicator of wear protection. Nothing could be further from the truth. True wear protection is only legitimately evaluated through the proper sequence of ASTM Standard Test Method for Evaluation of Automotive Engine Oils in the Sequence IIIG, Spark-Ignition Engine tests. The above data is from a ASTM D2782 test method used to evaluate EP performance of lubricants, not wear properties of motor oil. The indicated psi numbers are calculated from this steel-on-steel test, run at a wrong temperature (230F) to place all the above oils at the limit of their viscosity modifiers. Pressure breakdown does not relate to normal operational wear! You could make liquid lapping compound with a 100,000 psi film strength, but it sure would be a lousy motor oil! Therein lies the snake oil deception. Oils normally contain only EW (extended wear) additives, not EP (extended pressure). Lately a bunch of 'show me' videos and advertising is out there that is actually demonstrating film strength, not wear properties. Those demonstrations are being promoted to falsely indicate 'best oil'. Adding unlisted EP additive components (like sulfur compounds and certain organics) will make the film strength numbers of a paraffin base stock skyrocket, but at a price- their breakdown products directly attack tin based bearing materials (babbit, bronze). And so the "which oil is best" debate continues. . . Last edited by MikeK; 03-08-2013 at 12:45 AM. |
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03-08-2013, 12:32 AM
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#6 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,779
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
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03-08-2013, 01:18 AM
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#7 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cow Hampshire
Posts: 4,188
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
[QUOTE]
The above data is from a ASTM D2782 test method used to evaluate EP performance of lubricants, not wear properties of motor oil. The indicated psi numbers are calculated from this steel-on-steel test, run at a wrong temperature (230F) to place all the above oils at the limit of their viscosity modifiers. Pressure breakdown does not relate to normal operational wear! You could make liquid lapping compound with a 100,000 psi film strength, but it sure would be a lousy motor oil! Therein lies the snake oil deception. /QUOTE] That Rotella T6 5W-40 doesn't look so hot at 67K psi does it? Makes one wonder why VW specifies such a low grade of vasoline for lubrication of their TDI Diesel Engines? Of course the engines are noted for getting upwards of 400K miles before ANY work is done to the lower end. But as you say, a lapping lubricant it aint. Thanks MikeK. I ALWAYS read your posts. An engineering mind in the overalls of a mechanic. Joe K
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03-08-2013, 01:45 AM
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#8 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Direct Enclosed Transport Since 2006
Posts: 4,160
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
I type with one finger ....
So, no way in H - e - double hockey sticks would I ever type all that I just found it interesting and informative, the next time I change my oil in my F350 I will use a different diesel oil than the Rotella 15/40 I am currently running now .....  Here is another observation from the author of the original testing: I used to be a big fan of Royal Purple until I performed dynamic "Wear Testing" on it. Then I dropped it cold and never went back. If you take a look at the ranking list below, you'll see why. It's near the bottom for most of their oils, no matter how many times you test it. Funny thing about independent testing like that. RP's advertising doesn't match up to reality. Imagine that. Has anyone ever seen advertising that over sold a product? The only good thing I've seen from RP regarding actual real world testing, is that their thinner XPR racing oils consistently produce higher HP levels on the dyno. But, slipperiness or friction reduction is totally different than wear protection. Oil choices are very much like Religion and Politics, in that everyone is very set in their ways about them. And there is usually no changing anyone's mind. But, if you care to see real world "wear test" results, read on. The lower ranked oils are not necessarily bad. They simply don’t provide as much reserve wear protection as higher ranked oils. For example, if oil "A" has a 110,000 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength” in this test, and oil "B" has only a 60,000 psi “load carrying capacity/film strength” in this test, it’s not hard to understand the fact that oil "A" with its WHOPPING 83% HIGHER WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY, will provide a MUCH HIGHER level of reserve wear protection in a running engine as well. The whole thing simply comes down to what is called "margin of safety" or extra reserve wear protection capability. Let's say the lowest ranked oil has a 20% margin of safety relative to your engine's needs, which means that the oil’s capability "exceeds" your engine's needs by 20%. So, you are in good shape and you will never see a problem. However, if something bad happens like an overheating condition, or an oiling condition, or a loading condition, or some parts heading south, or whatever, and your oil protection requirements increase to say 50% above your engine’s typical needs. Now you've just exceeded the oil’s capability by a whopping 30%, and your engine is junk. But, what if you'd been running an oil that had a whopping 70% margin of safety to begin with? In this case, when your engine’s needs went up 50%, but you still have another 20% capability above that. And your engine would still live to fight another day. So, it’s up to each person to decide what level of wear protection they are comfortable with for their particular engine combo. The higher the psi value, the higher the wear protection
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Click Here To See Where I Am Today What My Actual Customers Say Click Here Click Here To See Vehicles I Have Hauled Last edited by trulyvintage; 03-08-2013 at 02:26 AM. Reason: To clarify author opinion - not necessarily mine ! |
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03-08-2013, 02:21 AM
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#9 |
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
Dog
here, Ol' Bill mumbled sumptin' like, "Pennzoil Ultra must have funded the study! I wasn't born day before yesterday"! Buster T.
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03-08-2013, 04:36 AM
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#10 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lynden, Wa
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
O.K. here comes an opinion from a non-engineer, non-science person...If these oils have super high numbers in the protection area what does that do for our low pressure, low RPM, low mileage engines? I change my oil every 500-1000 miles as I don't run a filter and that is about what I put on her in a year. So....are the high priced super oils really worth it? I understand they are a whole lot better than what they had in the 30's, but are they worth it?
Mike
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03-08-2013, 06:09 AM
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#11 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Direct Enclosed Transport Since 2006
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
Good point Mike
If this was 100 years ago and I was waking up in Virginia to below freezing temperatures, I probably would be tendering a fire under my engine to warm the oil ... But, I suspect I would rather be still driving a team of mules or horses like the freighters of the past did instead ... Jim |
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03-08-2013, 09:23 AM
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#12 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: on the Littlefield
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
With the thicker weights of oil most will go through the bypass in that "full flow" filter for quite a while till it warms up and thins out some ---longer if you don't use a thermostat in the cooling system.
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03-08-2013, 11:46 AM
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#13 |
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Location: Alabama
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
Model A engines depend on gravity and have NO pressure to the bearings.Thinner is better for gravity flow when cold. Film strength or viscosity is important in a gravity-splash system to prevent metal to metal contact on the bearings when hot. Ford recommended 20 weight for winter and 40 weight for summer use. Engines with real oil pressure can function better with thinner oil, the pressure will help prevent metal to metal contact on the bearings. I doubt that the tests were performed on an engine that depended on gravity- splash oiling and doesn't apply for an original type model A oiling system. I will continue to use Walmart 20w50 , it works well for me.
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03-08-2013, 12:06 PM
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#14 | |
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
Quote:
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03-08-2013, 01:24 PM
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#15 |
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Location: Alabama
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
Straight 50 weight oil would be a bad choice, 20W 50 is not the same...
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03-08-2013, 01:47 PM
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#16 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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Re: Oil weight and pressure ratings for various brands
Quote:
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