CCPU Rear View Mirror

[Rex Perry]

I have a 1929 CCPU with a date of 3/16/29 on the firewall. I can find no evidence of the installation of a rear view mirror on either "A" pillar or in the cab above the center of the windshield.
My intention is to install external mirrors on the LH and RH side attached to the pillars but I am trying to determine what was used, if anything, originally. Does anyone have any ideas? Did Ford ever build the pickup with hinge mounted mirrors?
Thanks

[Tom Wesenberg]

Trucks had no inside mirrors as I understand it.

[SeaSlugs]

yes CCPU never had inside mirrors (what are you gonna see out of that tiny window anyways)

They only ever had drivers side mirrors, the location moved a bit over the years. I think originally they were hinge mounted or sun visor hole mounted, then it was moved to the a pillar up high, then I think later on it moved down some. There was never a mirror on the pass side. People have added them though as its just some D nuts in the pillar.

Also should note the spacing between the bolt holes changed somewhere in there too...

Heres info:
http://forums.aa-fords.com/viewtopic...irror&start=15

[CarlG]

My '31 CCPU came to me with an inside mirror, probably installed by PO when it was restored in the 80's. I added hinge pin mirrors from Snyder's (http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/truck-hinge-mirror). Description says "for driver's side only", however a little ingenuity and a couple bucks at your hardware store, it works just fine on the passenger side as well.

[1crosscut]

Contact Neil Wilson. He has reproduction mirrors for the AA trucks.
http://aafords.com/aafords-contact/

[Rex Perry]

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There are two fastener holes near the top of the pillar but I thought that they were only for the sun visor attachment. Perhaps as SeaSlugs indicated, the mirror was attached there.
The "D" nuts are missing from that location. A little more research is required.
Thanks

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by Rex Perry

There are two fastener holes near the top of the pillar but I thought that they were only for the sun visor attachment. Perhaps as SeaSlugs indicated, the mirror was attached there.
The "D" nuts are missing from that location. A little more research is required.
Thanks

yes all ccpu had sun visors, some trucks used those holes as the mirror mount also (see the link i posted).

I will check my march 29 cab and see if it has mirror mounts or not in the pillar...

[1955cj5]

Just like CarlG my 29 ccpu had an inside mirror installed at some point. From the JS I think it came from a 31 so maybe it had been there a long time.

The back window is small so the view may not be panoramic but you can see cars behind pretty well....sure is better than nothing!

I also bought a hinge mirror for the drivers side. In Brattons the hinge mirrors are different for the 28-29's verses the 30-31's....the door hinges changed somewhere along the way...

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by Rex Perry

I have a 1929 CCPU with a date of 3/16/29 on the firewall. I can find no evidence of the installation of a rear view mirror on either "A" pillar or in the cab above the center of the windshield.
My intention is to install external mirrors on the LH and RH side attached to the pillars but I am trying to determine what was used, if anything, originally. Does anyone have any ideas? Did Ford ever build the pickup with hinge mounted mirrors?
Thanks

The 82-A closed cab was used on both the A and AA through 6/30. It did not come with a hinge installed mirror. Only the left side had a mirror. At some time in late 1928 to early 1929, D-nuts were added to the hinge pillar and bracket A-17741 was used for the 82-A. If the cab does not have the D-nuts, then bracket A-17737 design 2 would have been use (through March 1929). It was installed at the sun visor using the sun visor mounting screws. This mirror bracket can be installed on both sides (probably a good idea for today's traffic).

The A with 82-A used brackets A-17737 design 2, A-17741 designs 1 and 2. On page E-85 of the RGJS these brackets can be seen. Note that the sun visor mounted A-17737 design 2 bracket requires the A-17727 mirror assembly which clamps to the bracket's swivel ball.

FYI - some better photos of both the bracket and mirror is found at http://sell.aafords.com/aa-parts-for-sale/#82a-ma1 - yes, I have these reproductions for sale.

[1955cj5]

So if there are no pillar holes then the mirror would mount through the same holes as the visor, as in the pictures, using longer screws?

[SeaSlugs]

Neil, I'm interested in your correct A-17728 mirror - it says it comes unassembled - what does it take to assemble once painted?

Has anyone added a pillar pass side mirror? How hard is it?

[Rex Perry]

Thank you to Mr. Neil Wilson for a precise explanation of the external mirror installation. My cab is a March 1929; the centerline distance for the visor fasteners is 2.12 inch; the threaded block is missing from the LH side.
I believe that my question has been answered.
Thanks to all.

[CarlG]

Neil,
Is there a hinge mirror similar to the one Snyder's sells (see link in post #4) with a longer arm?

[Jim Brierley]

I installed an inside mirror in my wide-bed using a sedan bracket. I put it slightly right-of-center so I get a better view. Did that 60 years ago.

[Rex Perry]

Here are a couple of old pictures.
AA Mirror.jpg

AA Mirror closeup.jpg

[wrndln]

Rex,
I believe the picture you posted, that I have seen before, was of an early pickup - sometime in 1928. If your pickup had date stamp in mid March 1929, I don't think your pickup would have a visor mounted mirror like in the picture. Your cab without mirror mounting D nuts is a real mystery.
Rusty Nelson

[Rex Perry]

Rusty,
Neil Wilson provided the following link; http://sell.aafords.com/aa-parts-for-sale/#82a-mbd2
The information contained with this link seems to fit my pickup pretty well. The date on my cab is March 1929 and as we well know Henry was never known to waste anything. I am satisfied.
Rex

[wrndln]

Rex,
I didn't know Neil made parts (or had them made) for AA and CCPU's. That is nice to know. The mirror bracket is a little pricey but at least it is available. I have never seen the parts in your link to Neil's website in any model A catalog.
Rusty

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by 1955cj5

So if there are no pillar holes then the mirror would mount through the same holes as the visor, as in the pictures, using longer screws?

During the time period when Ford put the mirror bracket at the sun visor, the bolt size was 1/4. Other times (before and after) the bolt size was 3/16.

Yes the longer bolts held both the mirror bracket and sun visor. Note that the bracket has the swivel ball and the mirror has clamping brackets.

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by SeaSlugs

Neil, I'm interested in your correct A-17728 mirror - it says it comes unassembled - what does it take to assemble once painted?

Has anyone added a pillar pass side mirror? How hard is it?

For the A17728 mirror - install the swivel ball using the three screws which hold a clamping plate. Then a cardboard insulator and mirror sets inside of the retainer case. These parts are held in the case with the press fit retainer frame.

To install this mirror on the right side would require installing D-nuts on the right side. I have never tried that. I am fairly sure the D-nuts are available. Both the windshield and side garnish moulding would have to be removed to get to the inside of the hinge pillar.

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by wrndln

Rex,
I believe the picture you posted, that I have seen before, was of an early pickup - sometime in 1928. If your pickup had date stamp in mid March 1929, I don't think your pickup would have a visor mounted mirror like in the picture. Your cab without mirror mounting D nuts is a real mystery.
Rusty Nelson

Not a mystery to me. Most 82-A closed cabs that I have seen into March 1929 do not have the D-nuts and therefore would have had the sun visor mirror bracket. I had a March 1929 AA which was like that.

Given the RGJS indicates late 1928 as the startup for the D-nuts, then there was an overlap of bracket usage. The cab of the vehicle determine which bracket was originally used. If it were up to me (which it was not), I would say that early 1929 was when the D-nuts started.

[SeaSlugs]

I see - not bad at all!

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Neil,
Is there a hinge mirror similar to the one Snyder's sells (see link in post #4) with a longer arm?

Ford didn't provide a over-the-hinge mirror bracket for the 82-A. The 82-B (starting June 1930) came with an over-the-hinge mirror bracket. Ford did have longer over-the-hinge brackets for the 82-B. I don't think anyone is making them.

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by wrndln

Rex,
I didn't know Neil made parts (or had them made) for AA and CCPU's. That is nice to know. The mirror bracket is a little pricey but at least it is available. I have never seen the parts in your link to Neil's website in any model A catalog.
Rusty

Pricey is correct. I got 15 of these brackets made out of Sicilian bronze, got them machined, had the swivel balls made, and then had the swivel balls installed. I will not get any more made (a couple left) - folks just don't want to spend the $'s.

I also got the earlier bracket made the same way (see http://sell.aafords.com/aa-parts-for-sale/#82a-mbd1). These were only used for the AA's through February 1928.

These brackets are almost never found at swap meets.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Neil,
Is there a hinge mirror similar to the one Snyder's sells (see link in post #4) with a longer arm?

Originally Posted by Neil Wilson

...Ford did have longer over-the-hinge brackets for the 82-B. I don't think anyone is making them.

Any idea what length the hinge brackets for the 82-B were/are? I was thinking about having a couple of the shorter ones lengthened.

[Neil Wilson]

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Originally Posted by CarlG

Any idea what length the hinge brackets for the 82-B were/are? I was thinking about having a couple of the shorter ones lengthened.

See attached.

[Rex Perry]

What is the preferred method for removal of the threaded bar that secures the mirror fasteners? I thought that mine was missing but it apparently dropped down when someone removed the sun visor.
I would like to remove this little part and recondition it. My top is off and I have open access to the RH and LH corners. I could remove the horizontal plate riveted to the top of the post but would prefer another method. Suggestions?
Thanks

[Rex Perry]

Normally the nut bar is welded inside the forward door post. If, for some reason, those welds fail the nut bar can drop down the door post behind the window escutcheon. In my particular case, the head of one of the 1/4x20 screws had been twisted off leaving the remainder in the nut bar. With that broken screw remaining in the bar, it was trapped by internal structure and could not slide down behind the escutcheon.

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by Rex Perry

Normally the nut bar is welded inside the forward door post. If, for some reason, those welds fail the nut bar can drop down the door post behind the window escutcheon. In my particular case, the head of one of the 1/4x20 screws had been twisted off leaving the remainder in the nut bar. With that broken screw remaining in the bar, it was trapped by internal structure and could not slide down behind the escutcheon.

The tapping block (i.e. nut bar) was used prior to D-nuts and seem to have frequently broken loose (as in your case). See hinge pillar designs d1, d2, d3 and, d4 at http://aafords.com/aa-body-types/bod...s/mirrors/#pib.

I have made/replaced the tapping block used at the sun visor and also lower on the hinge pillar.

As I recall, I held the tapping block in place with bolts before welding it to the inside of the pillar with a wire feed welder (not an easy place to weld).

[Rex Perry]

Neil,
The procedure that you outline is exactly what I did but I had to compromise on the lower weld as the bottom was not accessible. Poor welds is probably what contributed to so many failures but pushing hard on the screw heads during removal is also a factor.

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by Rex Perry

Neil,
The procedure that you outline is exactly what I did but I had to compromise on the lower weld as the bottom was not accessible. Poor welds is probably what contributed to so many failures but pushing hard on the screw heads during removal is also a factor.

After several years of see hinge pillar holes without threads, I found a tapping block which had broken loose. At that point, the non-threaded holes made since.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Trucks had no inside mirrors as I understand it.

TRIVIA: The first "documented" use of a rear view mirror was on a YELLOW, 1912 Indy 500 race car
Bill Reflection

[1930-Pickup]

Originally Posted by Neil Wilson

Ford didn't provide a over-the-hinge mirror bracket for the 82-A. The 82-B (starting June 1930) came with an over-the-hinge mirror bracket. Ford did have longer over-the-hinge brackets for the 82-B. I don't think anyone is making them.

Is this the bracket for the 82-B? It doesn't say anything about length though.
https://www.modelaparts.com/a17704a

[denis4x4]

Here is my ‘29 with D inserts on both sides.

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by 1930-Pickup

Is this the bracket for the 82-B? It doesn't say anything about length though.

The on-hinge brackets used for the AA's are shown in the photo. For a 1930 A-chassis with an 82-B cab, bracket A-17741-B was used (top image in the photo).

[charlesatto]

Neil Wilson,
What is the center to center measurements of your mirror mounting bracket?

[ndnchf]

This is an old discussion. But I'll throw this in for general interest. My early '31 CCPU has an original drivers side hinge mount mirror. The arm is 5.5" long. I have the original mirror, but replaced it with a new convex mirror for much improved visibility.

[CarlG]

I changed mine out for convex mirrors as well. Bumped them up to 6" as well. Big improvement.

[Neil Wilson]

Originally Posted by charlesatto

Neil Wilson,
What is the center to center measurements of your mirror mounting bracket?

charlesqtto, Sorry, I don't know what mirror bracket you are referring to? The measurements shown in the photo of response #35 above may answer your question.


FYI — I do not have any of the mirror brackets shown in the photo to sell.

[katy]

Originally Posted by CarlG

I changed mine out for convex mirrors as well. Bumped them up to 6" as well. Big improvement.

Ditto

[old31]

Originally Posted by CarlG

I changed mine out for convex mirrors as well. Bumped them up to 6" as well. Big improvement.

Carl, what is the part number you used for the 6" convex.

[Joe K]

My 29 A CC (3-21-29) has the D-nuts and a mirror on the cast iron bracket installed.

Don't forget to mention the unusual "dome-headed" hex screws (5/16-24 x 7/8 A20798) which attach the 82A (and 150A) bracket to the pillar. These are not reproduced IIRC.

Joe K

[katy]

Try: https://www.truck-lite.com/97621.html
Or: https://www.velvac.com/products/thre...inless-steel-0

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by old31

Carl, what is the part number you used for the 6" convex.

CIPA-USA, Inc.
Port Huron, MI
www.cipausa.com

Part # 48600

I opted for the black finish mirror, they also make the same thing in a bright or stainless finish.

I bought them on Amazon to get free freight. YMMV