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Old 03-16-2018, 12:15 PM   #1
56sedandelivery
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Default To patch or replace frame crossmember?

My front cross member has some hole is it from the standard rust out that these cars see. My question is do I replace it or have the holes patched over. This is a resto mod so does not have to be factory correct in any way shape or form. the pics show the parts where the holes are. I ground out the rust back to solid metal so just do not know which option to go with. They are from the back, back and bottom.
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File Type: jpg Front Cross Member 1.jpg (41.7 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg Front Cross Member 2.jpg (46.4 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg Front Cross Member 3.jpg (29.9 KB, 69 views)

Last edited by 56sedandelivery; 03-16-2018 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 03-16-2018, 01:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Ifin it was me....I would replace the whole cross member. Never know what is lurking, a couple of holes tells me there are a couple more waiting to show their ugly little head.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:45 PM   #3
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Exclamation Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

And if and when you decide to replace it, please take photos of the core support assembly mount.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

If there is holes, the metal is weaker than you think. I suggest replacing the crossmember with a new one. Before installing the new crossmember paint the entire inside of it with self-etching primer and a decent coat of rust-o-leum black on the inside all around, top, bottom and sides. Outside can be painted after unit is welded in place.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Okay will replace. Anyone have dealings with Goodell Fab front cross member? Seems to be the only ones that I can find.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan View Post
If there is holes, the metal is weaker than you think. I suggest replacing the crossmember with a new one. Before installing the new crossmember paint the entire inside of it with self-etching primer and a decent coat of rust-o-leum black on the inside all around, top, bottom and sides. Outside can be painted after unit is welded in place.
Could you use spray on undercoating?
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:16 PM   #7
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

I haven't needed one but have read reports of several people using their crossmember and all seem happy. If you are on the West side of Arkansas you would be close, they are in Coweta which is just East of Tulsa, OK.
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

don't use undercoating on the inside it will burn smoke and drip all over as said in earlier post get a weld thru self etch primer for the inside also use it where you are welding to frame
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:28 PM   #9
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Quote:
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don't use undercoating on the inside it will burn smoke and drip all over as said in earlier post get a weld thru self etch primer for the inside also use it where you are welding to frame
what makes it a weld thru primer? I have some rattle can etching primer but do not know if it is weld thru or not.
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Old 03-17-2018, 06:28 AM   #10
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Post Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?



Quote:
3M WELD THRU COATING II05917 12.75 OZ 3M Weld-Thru Coating II, 05917, 12.75 oz Net Wt/361 g

Aerosol coating designed to be applied to metal surfaces prior to welding to provide corrosion protection after welding. Dries fast with minimum spatter. Meets MIR requirements.
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:25 AM   #11
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

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Thank you!
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:06 AM   #12
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Thumbs up Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery View Post

Thank you!
You are quite welcome...

Now, if you could do me a favor-

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post

And if and when you decide to replace it, please take photos of the core support assembly mount.
If and when you decide to repair/replace the cross-member, if possible could you take detailed photos? I am interested mainly in the method the core support (radiator surround) is held up. Does your 56 still have the front engine steady rest intact?
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:21 AM   #13
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
You are quite welcome...

Now, if you could do me a favor-



If and when you decide to repair/replace the cross-member, if possible could you take detailed photos? I am interested mainly in the method the core support (radiator surround) is held up. Does your 56 still have the front engine steady rest intact?
It will be a bit as a shop will be doing the work. I am in the process of getting all the pieces together for them. I can take pic of it the way it is now if you like. It looks the same as the one Goodell Fab is selling on ebay. If this old brain can remember I will ask the shop to take pics of the process.
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Old 03-17-2018, 11:06 AM   #14
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Thumbs up Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery View Post

It will be a bit as a shop will be doing the work. I am in the process of getting all the pieces together for them. I can take pic of it the way it is now if you like. It looks the same as the one Goodell Fab is selling on ebay. If this old brain can remember I will ask the shop to take pics of the process.
That's OK if you are farming it out.

They would most likely look at you sideways anyhow, sorta like Oldmics does me... (chain rattle in background)

If you remember (I have the same malady) and can get a close-up, what I wish to see is the mounting at the bottom radiator rear mounting.

If you don't get the chance no biggie and you will remain on my Christmas Card List...
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Old 03-17-2018, 11:38 AM   #15
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

I have a 56sedan and laying on floor best i can get. The rad support is bolted the crossember with 2 bolts and the welding on crossmember looks to be replaced.
If you fenders are bouning up and down you crossmember is weak and needs to be replaced.



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Old 03-17-2018, 12:48 PM   #16
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Thumbs up Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by George/Maine View Post

If you fenders are bouning up and down you crossmember is weak and needs to be replaced.
THANX for those shots.

The OP has a 56 that someone did a 302 swap on and butchered the front clip mounting(s). Trying to figure out how originally assembled as engineering drawings were deleted from the MPC.

Most photos found on the net are either in-concise or the car has been modified from factory assembly.
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Old 03-17-2018, 01:00 PM   #17
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Exclamation Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

BTW-

The 56 being discussed is @ this thread- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239366

The best shot I have stumbled across is below and the actual mount is hidden by the sway bar/electrical harness-

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File Type: jpg 1956 FORD- 16138 Supt _2 - OEM - Crop.jpg (42.7 KB, 251 views)
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Old 03-17-2018, 04:15 PM   #18
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

On any new or clean old bare metal, I blew out the junk on the bottom, then wiped down the metal with acetone on a paper towel, then spray with rattle can red oxide. In the doors, I try to get it up around the hinge mounts, then make it heavy enough so it drips out the bottom holes. I removed the rear seats, and side panels, and in the trunk too. It worked well as long as I kept the cars.
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Old 03-18-2018, 11:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Here are some pics of the front crossmember on my 56. First 3 are from the top the last two from the bottom.
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File Type: jpg 104_0461.jpg (33.6 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg 104_0463.jpg (35.2 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg 104_0465.jpg (28.1 KB, 54 views)
File Type: jpg 104_0468.jpg (21.4 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg 104_0471.jpg (47.6 KB, 49 views)
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Old 03-18-2018, 03:44 PM   #20
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Thumbs up Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

So, your front clip is removed?

How was the core support mounted to the cross-member flange?

THANX! for taking the photos.
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Old 03-18-2018, 04:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Are you talking about the radiator support bracket as in post #41 of the Front Motor Mount 1956 Year with 302 thread? If so mine was attached with rubber doughnuts similar to what you see on shock absorbers One on top and one on the botom.
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Old 03-18-2018, 04:28 PM   #22
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thanx!
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Old 03-18-2018, 04:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Quote:
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thanx!
You are welcome.
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Old 03-22-2018, 02:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

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Okay will replace. Anyone have dealings with Goodell Fab front cross member? Seems to be the only ones that I can find.
I did my cross member with a goodell piece and it fit like a glove! All the mounting points for the suspension were perfect. I used a cut off wheel, saws all and a dremel tool to cut the old one out. Never done anything like that before and was much easier than anticipated. I would recommend them to anyone needing this fix.
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Old 03-22-2018, 02:56 PM   #25
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

I recommend extreme caution and a step-by-step plan be drawn out PRIOR to proceeding with removal of old crossmember.


1) Drain engine coolant. Remove two bottom radiator support nuts, washers and springs. Remove four radiator side mounting bolts. Remove radiator hoses. Remove radiator completely.
2) Remove two big nuts and washers holding front A-arms to crossmember and drive out the two pins. Figure out some way to hold the front of the A-arms from falling (chains, jacks?).
3) Burn off existing welds holding crossmember to frame side-rails. Be sure to get all the welds. Bend out the tabs where the crossmember goes thru the slots in the frame siderails.
4) Get the new crossmember completely ready to be inserted in place (cleaning, painting, etc).
5) CAREFULLY get a long jack (like a house jack) and place it behind the existing crossmember between both frame siderails and spread the siderails apart just enough to pull the crossmember out. IMMEDIATELY insert the new crossmember into the frame and back the jack off while directing the tabs to go into the slots in the frame siderails. Old out and new in QUICKLY. Remove the house jack.
6) Bend the tabs over into the frame recesses in the frame siderails. Make sure you have a tight fit. It may be necessary now to get a beefed up window clamp to compress the siderails together as needed. Weld the new crossmember in as it was done originally.
7) Now push the two big pins into the holes in the crossmember and direct the front of the A-arms to mate with the holes. Don't forget to install the washers and collars here. Install the two big nuts and washers.
8) Re-install radiator and re-fill engine with coolant. DONE.
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:06 PM   #26
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

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BTW, when driving the two pins out of the old crossmember, be sure to leave the nut on the end of the pins and use a large centerpunch. Doing this will prevent distorting of the threads. Thoroughly clean rust off the old pins using a wire wheel in a bench grinder.
I coated mine with cold-galvanizing compound after cleaning, then I rubbed lubriplate all over the pin to help prevent future corrosion.


Another comment....I don't see the advantage in saw cutting the old crossmember out. You still need to spread the two frame siderails apart to intall the new crossmember because of the tabs, so it doesn't really do anything for you except waste more time and use up expensive cutting discs. Right?
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Old 03-22-2018, 03:45 PM   #27
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Being it is welded in both top and bottom how would you recommend removing the welds? Angle grinder?
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

I had my engine out and suspension removed before supporting the inner fenders with upright and flat 2x4s. I then removed the two fender bolts closest to the core support and made a rod with a washer welded to each end and tied both fenders together. I then removed the core support, rad mount and all associated sheet metal. After that I had full access to the front cross member. After many careful measurements double and triple checked, I cut that sucker out and welded the new one in. With the supports I had put in, putting it all back together was pretty straight forward. The washers even "fit" the old marks they made on the sheet metal all those years ago when it was assembled. I will see how well I did when I take it to the alignment shop.
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:36 PM   #29
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

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Being it is welded in both top and bottom how would you recommend removing the welds? Angle grinder?


I've seen it done using acetylene torch (while the entire front clip was on the car). But the guy was good. Seemed to me that he had missed his true calling. And the old crossmember came out without being burned through anywhere. Now that's skill.
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Old 08-05-2019, 03:47 PM   #30
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Hello y’all thanks for the good info does anyone know where I can get a replacement front crossmember ?
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:52 PM   #31
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

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Hello y’all thanks for the good info does anyone know where I can get a replacement front crossmember ?

See if this helps- http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic112196-1.aspx
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Old 08-05-2019, 10:56 PM   #32
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

They have been available on ebay
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Old 08-05-2019, 11:17 PM   #33
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

As far as I know, the new crossmembers available now don't have either the top piece for mounting the radiator and splash pan center support, nor the piece that wraps around the front in the middle and down to the bottom. So I guess, you gotta cut your old pieces off and weld them on to your new crossmember.
The one on my '55 Fairlane was replaced in 1982 by a Ford dealership at a cost of $110. It is a factory original replacement part. The one on my '55 Courier wagon may still be the original, but it is in good shape. That front crossmember was a factory recall due to rust-outs.
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

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Originally Posted by 56sedandelivery View Post
They have been available on ebay
Not anymore,Goodell Fabrication has closed up shop after years in business and they are no longer available. Here is a blue print for a '54. See following post.
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:20 AM   #35
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

See attachment.
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:26 AM   #36
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Here is the '55 & '56 blue print.
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:54 PM   #37
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

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Not anymore,Goodell Fabrication has closed up shop after years in business and they are no longer available. Here is a blue print for a '54. See following post.

Did not know that. Thanks
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:51 AM   #38
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

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Did not know that. Thanks
There are a fair amount of guys on the Facebook Ford Groups wanting them also so if anyone that welds wants to step up and make them post it here and message me.
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Old 08-09-2019, 04:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

If,the rust area/holes are all on the bottom couldn't they just fab a patch and Weld it in nice and solid?
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Old 08-12-2019, 11:30 AM   #40
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

"Fenders Bouncing"?

On my 56 Wagon, I found the front x member weld broken, I think it was the R side and a Shop welded it for me. The X Member appeared to be in good condition and the Shop said it was a common? issue on these cars.
It also became apparent something was missing, a Bracket that supported the front sheet metal to the frame. Looking at the solo eyelit on the front side of the X Member is the bolt up area to the underneath of the center line of rock shield, hood lock area.
The radiator frame was bolted to the rearward eyelits with hard rubber grommets, no springs, those were replaced also.
I don't know if I'm seeing bouncing fenders or the result of our poorly maintained roads here in CA. Any other conditions relate to bouncing fenders?
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:46 PM   #41
KULTULZ
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Post Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwawhite View Post
"Fenders Bouncing"?

The radiator frame was bolted to the rearward eyelits with hard rubber grommets, no springs, those were replaced also.

I don't know if I'm seeing bouncing fenders or the result of our poorly maintained roads here in CA. Any other conditions relate to bouncing fenders?
Do the fenders seem to bounce at the rear or the entire front clip?

If the entire front clip bounces, there is something wrong @ the core support. I thought you had all of that sorted out?
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Old 08-13-2019, 12:56 PM   #42
Jwawhite
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

Kultulz, it was sorted out as best as I could here at the home. The cowl, inner fenders and radiator support seem fine, bolted up.
Sometimes I think it's playing on my eyes, perhaps our "great" roads.
I'm going to set up a windshield video camera and watch the playback.

There is this great product, "Cavity Wax" by 3M? Highly recommend coating inside your sheet metal after repairs, it prevents rust.
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Old 08-13-2019, 06:30 PM   #43
Daves55Sedan
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Default Re: To patch or replace frame crossmember?

If I remember right, it seems that the weight of the entire front clip rests upon the rubber pad between the front frame crossmember and the bottom of the radiator support bracket. That rubber is actually attached to the bottom of the radiator support with a piece of insulated bailing wire.
The only other attachments there are to the front clip is to the cowl and firewall at the rear. Those rear bolts are mainly what holds the front clip steady. You should be able to jump up and down at the front of one fender without budging the doghouse if all the rear bolts/washers/nuts are tight.
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