Anyone using Phaser 3000?

[huddy]

Just received the latest ad from Mike's AfFordable, featuring Phaser 3000 gas additive, which is purported to deal effectively with ethanol (aka "crap") gas. I've avoided using this by purchasing ethanol-free premium gas, which is quite a bit more expensive than the 10% ethanol regular. It's also way higher octane than the Model A engine requires. Using regular plus the additive would save some money.

I'm wondering if anyone has experience using Phaser 3000, and if it actually works?

[Tom Wesenberg]

What's the cost to treat 10 gallons?
And does it extend shelf life, or what does it do to treat the crap gas?

Some guys have reported adding a quart of diesel to 10 gallons crap gas works well.

[mrtexas]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

What's the cost to treat 10 gallons?
And does it extend shelf life, or what does it do to treat the crap gas?

Some guys have reported adding a quart of diesel to 10 gallons crap gas works well.

Other than making their car smoke and run on what in the world would adding diesel do good to a tank of gasoline? Won't help with the alcohol.

[CYB4]

Fill your car up with aviation gas AVGAS 100LL. Just pure gas, no ethanol, also some lead in it. My A runs very well with that stuff.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by mrtexas

Other than making their car smoke and run on what in the world would adding diesel do good to a tank of gasoline? Won't help with the alcohol.

Like a two cylinder engine the gas burns off and the oil remains to lube the top end. A quart for 10 gallons seems WAY too much to me.

[huddy]

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I did a bit more research on this stuff & looked up their website where they provide a data sheet, which says:

When ethanol blended gasoline reaches its saturation point because of contamination with H2O, multiple layers are formed. The top layer is gasoline with a lower octane rating, and the bottom is a mixture of water and ethanol that will not ignite during engine combustion. If ethanol blended gasoline reaches this state, a phenomenon known as “Phase Separation”, the engine can be detrimentally affected. This is where Phaser 3000 is necessary because it can actually return these separated layers back to one clear, homogeneous mixture. In this process, Phaser 3000 adheres itself to H2O molecules in the phase separated gasoline by breaking the “H” bond from the H2O molecule and adhering itself to that H2O molecule, thus returning the separated layers back into one mixture. The H2O molecules that are absorbed in Phaser 3000 are then eliminated during the normal combustion process of an engine.


Their recommended usage is also explained, as follows:

Phaser 3000 is recommended to provide sufficient water removal and keep-clean performance at a maintenance treat rate of 1:500 in humid or wet environments. It may also be used at a treat rate up to 1:1000. If phase separation has occurred, one gallon of Phaser 3000 must be used for every 30-100 gallons of gasoline. A 1:30 separation reversal dosage is for 10% ethanol containing gasoline that has been contaminated with 1⁄2% water.

Mike's is selling it for $21 for a 16 oz bottle, which they say will treat 64 gallons of the 10% blend gas, or a cost of about 32 cents per gallon. If it works it's cheaper for me than buying the non-ethanol premium for about 50 cents/gal over the cost of regular.

By the way, I'm curious why someone would rate this thread with one star - what's the problem? This was just a request for information and doesn't deserve the put-down. I see this happening randomly on the forum and it seems kind of petty.

[marc hildebrant]

I've run my Model A for around 5 years with the Ethanol Gas with no gas related problems. I do use the recommended amount of Marvel Mystery Oil.

Marc

[huddy]

I didn't intend to restart the endless debate about ethanol gas - I've decided, on good evidence (in my opinion) to not use in the 10% blend in my antique cars or small engines that are only run intermittently. I run the regular 10% blend in my modern cars, because the gas is used up and refilled frequently and doesn't have a chance to absorb water and separate. Others on the Barn disagree, and their experience seems to support them. To each his own.

I started this thread because I wanted to hear if anyone had experience with this stuff or a similar additive. I'm a curious person by nature - I probably won't change my gasoline usage any time soon - but I wanted to hear what the experience, if any, of the experts would reveal. I also was hoping that someone with more knowledge of chemistry would weigh in on the value of this additive. The MSDS (http://www.phaser3000.com/Assets/3000%20hmsds.pdf) says the active ingredient is "2-Butoxyethanol" but I have no idea what that is.

[redmodelt]

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/heet-faqs

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by mrtexas

Other than making their car smoke and run on what in the world would adding diesel do good to a tank of gasoline? Won't help with the alcohol.

A 1 to 40 mix of diesel fuel to gas won't make the Model A "RUN ON", commonly known as dieseling.

"By the way, I'm curious why someone would rate this thread with one star - what's the problem? This was just a request for information and doesn't deserve the put-down. I see this happening randomly on the forum and it seems kind of petty."

I don't get it either, and pay no attention to the rating.

[MikeK]

Well folks, we have yet another snake oil now open for discussion! Not that all are bad, some are good. Here's my take on this stuff:

Phaser 3000 is essentially butyl cellosolve. I do not know at what %, or if the stuff also contains any petroleum distillates (naptha) common as a carrier and diluent in most aftermarket bottled fuel additives. Maybe it's 100%, maybe 60%.

Butyl cellosolve is a glycol ether and is also known as 2-Butoxyethanol and various other names. You can buy 5 gallons pure (100%) from several chem suppliers for about $150. It is a relatively mild surfactant/ dispersant used in paints, plastics, and water based household cleaners in single digit percentages.

In a gasohol environment butyl cellosolve/ 2-Butoxyethanol will easily form hydrogen bonds to free polar water molecules. For the geeks, it has relatively high Hansen solubility numbers (d=16, p=7.6 h=12.3 [data from Dow Chem.]). So yes, it will reintroduce phase separated water into a gasohol solution. But at what additive rate, and how will the recovered, now un-separated stuff ‘burn’ ?

The answer to that question is where I have a problem with some of the P3000 hype, exactly what their own tech data sheet says, and their own video demonstration. From their own TDS LINK I find troubling and somewhat conflicting statements:
1) “A 1:30 separation reversal dosage is for 10% ethanol … contaminated with 1/2% water.” & “Dosages greater than 1:500 may only be used in off-road gasoline.” If you do in fact reach the ½% water point in your gas tank (E10 phase separates at about 0.41% added free water @ 68F) you need to add 42.6 oz and mix like crazy to recover it, and then you have a non-compliant fuel mix! For a 10 gallon Model A tank you would need to add 3½ 12 oz bottles @ $12 per bottle! $40 to save $30 worth of gas!!
2) If you watch the end few seconds of their own video demonstration LINK you will notice they dump a HUGE amount of the stuff into the test tube, doubling the volume in the tube. That’s a 1:1 ratio! Certainly not a mix ratio that would produce useable internal combustion fuel. Their demo is the equivalent of dumping 53 bottles ($636 worth) of the stuff into a half-full Model A tank!!

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree, and will continue to buy the good gas that doesn't suck water into my gas tank in the first place.

[Kevin in NJ]

Ahh science and logic.


Thanks Mike!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

MANY running problems stem from OLD GAS! I just realized that my 1/2 tank of gas in my Dodge Dakota is 1 1/2 years old. It was filled by Gregg, just before he passed away!
Bill W.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

MANY running problems stem from OLD GAS! I just realized that my 1/2 tank of gas in my Dodge Dakota is 1 1/2 years old. It was filled by Gregg, just before he passed away!
Bill W.

you better get that sh--t out or youll be putting a pump in it

[Keith True]

I must be doing something wrong.I never seem to have any more problems than I ever did.I stopped where my roadster has been stored in a shed since the beginning of November.I I pulled the oil stick,then poured the anti-freeze from the drain pan back into the radiator,(the water pump leaks about a quart over the winter)turned the gas on and fired it up.No special treatment,just a squirt of Stabil if I remember to do it,No battery tender,nothing.I drove it all this week and just put some fresh gas in it.There was a Stihl rep at a dealer here a few years ago.He was telling the dealers to instruct the customers on how to work with the new gas.If you set a saw down for more than 20 minutes,shake it when you pick it up.Phase separation.Really??I thought he was making a joke.He was serious.I thought phase separation started at 3 months,not 3 minutes.

[redmodelt]

If you have Phase separation, doesn't the bad stuff sink to the bottom, right where our T's and A's pickup the gas from. With gravity feed you would need to suck the bad stuff out before you got to the good gas.

[john in illinois]

I have not had any problems with ethanol on my Tudor -22k miles. When I travel I use whatever is available. I do use straight gas in my chain saws and 2cycles.

John

[1931 flamingo]

When I saw it this morning on their ad, I, like MikeK said "snake oil". Then when I started to read this thread I again said to myself: "snake oil", then I read MikeK's dissertation and bingo: "snake oil".

Paul in CT

me thinks that too many here worry/question too many things. JMO

[ian Simpson]

I use ethanol free premium in my Tudor and my MGB. The 57 Chev and our modern vehicles make do on any regular gas. The ethanol free gas appears to help as the MG idles smoother and about 200 rpm faster and the Tudor idles more reliably and slower without stalling.

As for water introduced by the ethanol, I occasionally add a few ounces of methyl hydrate (sold as gas line anti-freeze here) to each vehicle. Methyl hydrate also helps deal with water introduced by our crazy winter freeze/thaw cycles.