Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

[redmodelt]

Before telling someone to check the Judging Standards, make sure the information is covered in them. Just because there is a chapter covering X does not mean that the question is covered in chapter X.

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Before telling someone to check the Judging Standards, make sure the information is covered in them. Just because there is a chapter covering X does not mean that the question is covered in chapter X.

Not implying you do, but I really don't understand the non-answer of telling someone (sometimes in a less than mannerly way) to check the Judging Standards, Service Bulletins, whatever. Certainly it's a good idea to have those sources but not everyone does. If they do, presumably they would check them before asking the question. Granted one should answer with correct information or at least acknowledge if they're unsure. But if they can't/won't answer the question, why bother posting at all?


Seems to me the best answer would be something like, "Per Judging Standards chapter 4, page 9, the lower framistan carriage bolt should be raven finish."

[redmodelt]

Behind that ^ 100%.

[Bill G]

I agree too. If we want to encourage younger folks to participate, lets just answer the question. No harm in that. If you don't want to answer the question, then why be snarky and say that it's found in the bulletins or JS. If you don't want to answer the question, then just don't say anything. The same goes with telling someone to search. That's just plain rude in my opinion.

I can tell you that I have spent hours and hours doing searches on this forum, and sometimes the search engine is not very good. I also use the "site:" command in Google to search this forum and others. Some people, particularly newbies either don't have the patience or know some of the terminology to do an adequate search.

I have now invested a lot of money to now have the JS, the bulletins, all three Les Andrews books, and a few others. I have spent hours most every night reading, reading, reading. However, in the year that I have had my Model A, I did not get to that point over night. Also, I am like a guy with a PhD going on his first job. I have a log of "book learning", but not so much in line of hands on experience, particularly anything on the inside of the engine, transmission, or rear end. I will get there eventually, but in the meantime I may ask a question from time to time that might seem basic from someone else's prospective.

All that being said, to any new person reading this, it is very helpful to use the search function, and another very helpful FREE resource are the assembly diagrams that the various vendors have in their catalogs and their on-line stores.

Yet another good resource is the links to other websites found at the very top of this forum page. Look those up, and if you find something relevant to a project you are working on, then bookmark the link you find.

I generally find that if one is patient enough, one can generally find almost anything. I can almost guarantee that it has been asked or discussed before. But, I for one will still ask from time to time.

To borrow a byline from another Bill:

"Bill Soapbox"

[Roadster62]

Has anyone taken a Pole to see how many Ford Barn members own a copy of the "Judging Standards". I've managed to have a good time in the hobby for 50+ years without a copy, don't know if I've really missed anything by not being an expert. Bob

[Bill G]

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PS:

Why have a forum if you are going to discourage questions???

[redmodelt]

Originally Posted by Roadster62

Has anyone taken a Pole to see how many Ford Barn members own a copy of the "Judging Standards". I've managed to have a good time in the hobby for 50+ years without a copy, don't know if I've really missed anything by not being an expert. Bob

or how many have updated JS's? Mine is at least 2 maybe 3 updates behind.

[Keith True]

I had a young fellow here working on his old VW.He needed a measurement for his brake pedal setting,so he got on his phone and asked a VW forum he belonged to.Over a dozen answers telling him what manual to buy,where to buy it,and a couple of people telling him what page the answer was on.Nobody saw fit to just write,10 MM.I think somebody got tired of that foolishness and actually gave him the answer.For me,the search function here sometimes sends me into never-never land,and it takes me a couple of minutes to find my way back.

[jm29henry]

Well said 51

[28]

Agreed. I notice a lot nastiness along with distracting and unhelpful comments from some here.

[Oldbluoval]

One thing I've noticed is that some folks post just to exercise their thumbs.
If you don't have an accurate/authoritative/informed/experienced/insightful comment or answer.......many I see do not!
Why bother? Just imho

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Before telling someone to check the Judging Standards, make sure the information is covered in them. Just because there is a chapter covering X does not mean that the question is covered in chapter X.

I think that this is a very good subject.
My copy of the judging standards is up to date, and I have found that not all information is covered; only the parts that are visible to an observer. Some of the information is quite vague, I believe because more research is needed and being carried out.
I encourage questions on all Model A topics and if a question is covered in the judging standards, I offer to e-mail a copy of the topic to the interested person.

[chap52]

After being a Pastor for over 30 years and have found that telling folks to "check the book" never seems to be the answer their looking for, even if the answer is in there.
Sometimes it's the answer we give when we don't actually know the answer ourselves, Huh!
Chap

[Bill Pursel]

I agree lets answer the question to the best of ability.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Before telling someone to check the Judging Standards, make sure the information is covered in them. Just because there is a chapter covering X does not mean that the question is covered in chapter X.

The best solution is to look up the answer in the judging standards and then give the person the answer and reference the page of the standards where you found it. Hopefully that will encourage them to buy a set, or if they have a set look there before asking.

Charlie Stephens

[oldforder]

Personally I would probably never ask questions that could be answered by the J S book, as my car will never be judged , at least not by anybody that really knows As anyway, as I only want a car that works, and looks presentable from 20 feet or so. You know, a 20/20 car, one that looks good driving by at 20 mph from 20 feet away. But, one other thing that I have noticed, that kinda bugs me, is that it seems that some people don't fully read an OPs question, as their answers will tell the OP to do things, or check things, that they clearly stated that they have already done.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by oldforder

Personally I would probably never ask questions that could be answered by the J S book, as my car will never be judged , at least not by anybody that really knows As anyway, as I only want a car that works, and looks presentable from 20 feet or so. You know, a 20/20 car, one that looks good driving by at 20 mph from 20 feet away. But, one other thing that I have noticed, that kinda bugs me, is that it seems that some people don't fully read an OPs question, as their answers will tell the OP to do things, or check things, that they clearly stated that they have already done.

I also like the idea of a 20/20 car. There is something else that comes into play as to why the judging standards are important to people with 20/20 cars. Whenever I buy something for my car (like maybe a generator) quite often the part that is correct per the judging standards will cost the same as the part that is incorrect. As time goes on the car will become more "correct" with the correct parts and when it is sold will be worth more. No, mine is not for sale.

Charlie Stephens

[CarlG]

A lot of people seem to forget that the title of the book is
Restoration Guidelines
. . . . . . . . . . . . & Judging Standards

[Growley bear]

Yes, the RESTORATION GUIDELINES and judging standards book contains a wealth of information concerning the Model A. It is a valuable resource and a good research tool.

[updraught]

I have a copy of the Australian Service Bulletins.

If I ask a question, feel free to quote the page number and issue.

Thanks.

[Mike V. Florida]

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Some should spend time and money to gain reference materials and knowledge and they should just give it away to others who feel the books are not worth their time or money?


We should expect someone new to be spoon fed answers to every question without even the hearing about where the information resides and where future questions may be answered?


This thread would have been much better in my opinion if an example post was given where someone pointed to the restoration guidelines, said the answer was there, and the answer was not there.


I spend time looking up the information and quoting it word by word even copying diagrams and charts but I should not mention where I got the info?

[midgetracer]

I think you missed the point Mike. Answering the question and giving your source is no problem. When the question is not answered and the person is told that the answer is in the judging standards even with a page number it is not helpful since everyone does not own the judging standards. Sometimes it is a question of buying parts or buying reference materials. Restoring a Model A is not a cheap hobby and being proprietary with info does not serve the idea of a forum for information exchange well. JMHO.

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Some should spend time and money to gain reference materials and knowledge and they should just give it away to others who feel the books are not worth their time or money?


We should expect someone new to be spoon fed answers to every question without even the hearing about where the information resides and where future questions may be answered?


This thread would have been much better in my opinion if an example post was given where someone pointed to the restoration guidelines, said the answer was there, and the answer was not there.


I spend time looking up the information and quoting it word by word even copying diagrams and charts but I should not mention where I got the info?

Agreed. I encourage people to ask questions, and I also encourage them to do research. When someone asks a question the least they could do is to know the names of the parts and have a little understanding of the mechanical terms. At least take the time to learn about the Model A and sound like you know what you are talking about.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Growley bear

Agreed. I encourage people to ask questions, and I also encourage them to do research. When someone asks a question the least they could do is to know the names of the parts and have a little understanding of the mechanical terms. At least take the time to learn about the Model A and sound like you know what you are talking about.

If you think this lack of understanding is prevalent here, you should read some of the social media Model-A sites!

[CarlG]

When I was a teenager, there were no reference materials available for my Model A. My only source of information was my Dad, or just figure it out for myself.

Fast forward 50 years, when I finally got the fever to get another Model A. I wanted to have as much reference material as I could find. I actually had a pretty sizeable library even before I found the Model A that would overtake my life.

I really do not understand the reasoning behind someone having an asset and not having adequate references to care for it. Today we have the internet, and that seems to be the only "tool" many have. It has been all too easy to let someone else do the digging for us. Even here, I see the same questions asked over and over again. Questions that have been asked and answered many times.

(stepping off my soap box now)

[J Franklin]

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CarlG, 50 years ago is when I was able to obtain reference material from Clymer Publications, and the Page book was certainly available as well as a restoration book supplied by the Ford Motor Company itself. Before buying a model A people should get a few manuals so they at least know the basics. Asking for information is a leap of faith hoping the person answering has at least read the answer. Referring someone to published literature is always a proper response. adding a guess as to the answer is polite but may not be the correct answer.

[100IH]

I agree with J Franklin, Page and Clymer. Now it is a better world. My pet gripe is when it seems clear that someone posting a question, not only owns no references but is proud of it. Then asks a question that was asked just hours earlier. Leads me to think that the poster would rather have his name on the post and is above reading any posts asked by others or just to lazy to read the barn at all.

[28]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Some should spend time and money to gain reference materials and knowledge and they should just give it away to others who feel the books are not worth their time or money?


We should expect someone new to be spoon fed answers to every question without even the hearing about where the information resides and where future questions may be answered?


This thread would have been much better in my opinion if an example post was given where someone pointed to the restoration guidelines, said the answer was there, and the answer was not there.


I spend time looking up the information and quoting it word by word even copying diagrams and charts but I should not mention where I got the info?

You can look at it like that if you like.

My take is most of the questions on here are done conversationally, meaning people want to bounce ideas off of a community that should be pretty close knit. The people that are asking questions genuinely want to know or need help, we are not a community made up of adolescence. I agree that if there are numerous stupid questions then the community should step in and set the expectations, but we’re not there and will never be because we are made up of intelligent real people. The problem here is when members are just shut down by someone who is annoyed and rude about people just asking questions. Everyone sees it, no one appreciates it and no one likes to be talked to in a condescending manner. It like a fart in church and leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth when someone is upset over another’s questions.

No one is forcing anyone to post replies divulging their hard earned knowledge for free. I haven’t seen any guns held to anyone’s head here and the submit reply button doesn’t always have to be pressed.

[28Ca8149]

I have a 1928 AR roadster .I bought this car in 1955 from the original owner that was the local Ford dealer mechanic . This car has a original honey comb radiator and a plate glass windshield .Every thing is original except the tires .The spare is still original There has been a lot of discussion about the car over the time .I wrote Ford years ago and they said that ford did a lot of things to keep the line going .This car could have been a Regina car .Hay Joe we ,we need some radiators .go to Maclouds ,the local hardware and get some radiators Thus the honey comb rad ,The model A expert in Calgary was to give a speech at the banquet about the difference between a Canadian car and a US car .He said I laid under your car for an hour and re wrote my speech

[daveymc29]

I own a sizable library with all the normal fix it books and some from the Clymers and such and though I have read them all I still have questions and have been very happy with the answers I get from this forum. Some very good advice probably get's deleted and overlooked because of the snarkiness of the responder. But I am here to learn any way I can and will answer some questions "the way that has worked for me." I have only been driving these things for a few years compared to most, bought my first running A in 1993. Over the couple of years I have been on this site I have amassed another library by copying your responses. Now if I could just find.......??

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by 28Ca8149

I have a 1928 AR roadster .I bought this car in 1955 from the original owner that was the local Ford dealer mechanic . This car has a original honey comb radiator and a plate glass windshield .Every thing is original except the tires .The spare is still original There has been a lot of discussion about the car over the time .I wrote Ford years ago and they said that ford did a lot of things to keep the line going .This car could have been a Regina car .Hay Joe we ,we need some radiators .go to Maclouds ,the local hardware and get some radiators Thus the honey comb rad ,The model A expert in Calgary was to give a speech at the banquet about the difference between a Canadian car and a US car .He said I laid under your car for an hour and re wrote my speech

According to the Restoration Guidelines/Judging Standards (This has always been my understanding) Page 10-1 lower left hand column states that "All windshields (except the Town Car) were sheet laminated safety glass in 1928-1929."
To my knowledge the Model A was the first American automobile to be equipped with a safety glass windshield. As with much of the Model A history there is a story that goes along with this. If you don't have access to the RG/JS I would be glad to e-mail you a copy if you are interested.
I didn't realize that you and your car are from Canada. I know that there are variations between countries of manufacture; this is very interesting. Is there a Canadian Restoration Guideline book?
Chet

[Growley bear]

This is a very good place to gain automotive mostly related information/education.

[zzlegend]

Originally Posted by 28

You can look at it like that if you like.

My take is most of the questions on here are done conversationally, meaning people want to bounce ideas off of a community that should be pretty close knit. The people that are asking questions genuinely want to know or need help, we are not a community made up of adolescence. I agree that if there are numerous stupid questions then the community should step in and set the expectations, but we’re not there and will never be because we are made up of intelligent real people. The problem here is when members are just shut down by someone who is annoyed and rude about people just asking questions. Everyone sees it, no one appreciates it and no one likes to be talked to in a condescending manner. It like a fart in church and leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth when someone is upset over another’s questions.

No one is forcing anyone to post replies divulging their hard earned knowledge for free. I haven’t seen any guns held to anyone’s head here and the submit reply button doesn’t always have to be pressed.

Excellent post 28. You hit the nail on the head. Especially the last paragraph.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by 28

You can look at it like that if you like.


No one is forcing anyone to post replies divulging their hard earned knowledge for free. I haven’t seen any guns held to anyone’s head here and the submit reply button doesn’t always have to be pressed.

Very true statement Sir, ....and many of the ones that researched the correct knowledge to offer, --or truly have/had the actual hands-on experience to offer no longer press that reply button here for many of the reasons posted above.


If my math is correct Sir, you have been a member here all of about 8 months. Many of us have been here for 8 years, --and much has changed here during that time. Adding to that, a few of us were here on Fordbarn some 8 years prior to the beginning of the present format, and we remember what the old Fordbarn was about. The respect and the topics back then were much superior than what is found here today. Personally I find that sad. And more to the direct point, the original Fordbarn, --and even the beginning of the present Fordbarn used to be focused on correct restoration. Now anything goes.


So the irony is that 10 years ago, someone could say 'check the Judging Standards', and nearly all of the readership did just that much like a Preacher preaching to his congregation and referencing scripture, the congregation turns in their Bibles to read that passage for themselves. You could tell people were doing that because people would post in the thread about what they read and ask questions relating to what they just read Now it seems like hobbyists really are not that interested in learning to do something correctly, --or just learning in general, but instead they seemingly just do whatever it takes to get by and on to other things.

[denis4x4]

Believe it or not, my library includes the Judging Standards as well as the truck info along with the service bulletins, Les Andrews books and several other publications like Jim Brierly's book and Bill Carroll's book. Whether you're a restorer or hot rodder, the info in these books is invaluable.

[JohnB15632]

I will give you a very specific question, what is the fastener size and length that secures the column molding to the A column of a 31 SW.

The correct size I found out is 10/32. The length, as given by suppliers is 3/4". However, the molding is tapered which means that the top fastener needs to be 1/2 ".

When I asked the question, I got the answer, check the RG JS. The only problem, the RG JS does not answer the question of length.

It took me trial and error, purchasing incorrect fasteners, and generally getting frustrated that I could not get an answer on Ford Barn. Ford Barn made me feel really stupid.

I have learned to not to depend on Ford Barn anymore.

Thanks,

[Mike V. Florida]

Thank you JohnB15632 for the example. The answer you received "check the RG JS." is a very poor one. It could mean, check the RGJS the answer is there, or it could be that, I don't the answer but check the RGJS. Either way, I feel your frustration and if that is what redmodelt was talking about then count me in with his request. We need to more clear in our communication.

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by JohnB15632

I will give you a very specific question, what is the fastener size and length that secures the column molding to the A column of a 31 SW.

The correct size I found out is 10/32. The length, as given by suppliers is 3/4". However, the molding is tapered which means that the top fastener needs to be 1/2 ".

When I asked the question, I got the answer, check the RG JS. The only problem, the RG JS does not answer the question of length.

It took me trial and error, purchasing incorrect fasteners, and generally getting frustrated that I could not get an answer on Ford Barn. Ford Barn made me feel really stupid.

I have learned to not to depend on Ford Barn anymore.

Thanks,

For that, I would have suggested the "Ford Model A Standard Hardware" book....

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by cpf240

For that, I would have suggested the "Ford Model A Standard Hardware" book....

Exactly!! By a show of hands, who here owns that book?


FWIW, that book (-just like the RG&JS) requires an effort to search out information. I suspect the average restorer here has never encountered this topic, and does not have the ancillary items (-parts books, Mick's fastener book, prints, etc.) to be able to research John's question. It also should be pointed out the amount of someone's time that would also be required to look this up. There was a day when this forum had knowledgeable participants who would have gladly taken the time to research that for John, as they truly cared about authenticity and for those who were seeking to restore to that level. It is a shame that almost of those knowledgeable people have moved from here.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Exactly!! By a show of hands, who here owns that book?

But the joke with the hand aside, we let him down. I don't read every post as I once did on this site, less then 10% actually, and do not remember seeing that one. I'm sorry John.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by updraught

I have a copy of the Australian Service Bulletins.

If I ask a question, feel free to quote the page number and issue.

Thanks.

As Upgraught points out, judging standards are not all the same. Directing someone to them for an answer is pointless and condescending. Not all of us are interested in being fussy about minor details to make our car just like it left the factory. I understand those who do but it seems in some cases, the reverse is not so. Just MHO!

[tinman080]

As a retired 45 year career auto body repairman, painter, mechanic, with 6 years in the Air Force as a 431 aircraft maintenance guy I have been savaged on this site by a couple of ''groups'' on here. My hobby is not restoring existing cars, I build my own from the frame on up. Suits me, I do it to relax. I'm a solitary kind of guy. I use LOTS of Ford bits and pieces so the Ford Barn interests me. I don't think I've ever asked a question about building or maintaining a vehicle. I have presented a few instances of what I have used Ford pieces for in my applications in a couple of threads and have not been well received at all. So the presentation of a non-answer or reference to a source not everyone is privy to has a tendency to sour me on that person's future posts. A website can die the Death of a Thousand cuts delivered by only 3 or 4 ''experts''.

[cradlescyth]

I can just about afford the car let alone the books.

I would rather drive than read.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Exactly!! By a show of hands, who here owns that book? ...

...

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

So let me see if I understand this correctly. Some should spend time and money to gain reference materials and knowledge and they should just give it away to others who feel the books are not worth their time or money?

Yeah, people really really want to waste $5,000 on trying to get books from overseas that will, yes will, be lost in the post over & over (when was the past time you got an intact parcel/parcel at all?) in order to gap their spark plugs.

Originally Posted by tinman080

A website can die the Death of a Thousand cuts delivered by only 3 or 4 ''experts''.

I see that all too often.

[pooch]

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The tide has changed over the last 10 years from being fussy about how the cotter pin is curled on a 500 pointer to an original rusty POS being driven and enjoyed.

[Corley]

"I don't submit anything for judging, you can judge it if you want, but I don't give a crap if it's not up to your standards, it's mine and I'll do what I want with it."

But, maybe that's not the point. I imagine that many times people who have the judging standards in their library don't understand why someone else posted a question, when the answer is right there in the js. WHY? Well, maybe they don't have the document, and don't want to spend $$ on something regarding "judging", or maybe it's just quicker to post the question for the experts on this forum.

Who cares about the reason for asking the question, if you know the answer, give it, if not, well then, as they say, you don't need to post anything. If you want to refer the asker to some other document, something online would be much better than referring people to a hard copy doc they probably don't have access to.

Just what I think, nothing more...

[F.M.]

The "Book" is also called the "Restoration Guidelines" .. If you dont follow what it says why ask a question ?.. Years ago if someone did answer the question correctly and it agrees with the "BOOK" you would get other people saying, its not like that on MY car.. So now many dont bother to answer at all because it just starts a war..

[Corley]

Originally Posted by F.M.

If you dont follow what it (the JS&RG book) says why ask a question ?...

I hope you can now see that this question does not make any sense... To further explain:


First, if you had the book and followed the book, then you may still have a question about the process. Right? Second, you, again, assume one has the book, and they may not. Right?. Third, as your last sentence intimates, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and due to a vehicles history, modifications, or whatever, the book may not hold the answer in this case. Right? Lastly, that sentence seems to indicate that there is only one process in completing a task, the way the book guides you to do it, which is simply not true. The same result can be achieved with several different approaches and methods. Right?


Right. (All in good fun!)

[cpf240]

As great a resource the JS & RG book is, it doesn't, and probably can't, cover everything. Having said that, it is a good first place to look for "how it is/was supposed to look".


One will have to look to other resources for the 'how-to' questions.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by pooch

The tide has changed over the last 10 years from being fussy about how the cotter pin is curled on a 500 pointer to an original rusty POS being driven and enjoyed.

I guess that is basically a true statement, ...but maybe the truer statement is that 'tide' was basically told they were no longer welcomed here so they moved on to another location so now there are very few here to discuss that portion of the hobby.


FWIW, I asked the question a few months ago to a B.o.D. on each of the two clubs about do they really sell that many RG&JS books these days, -and both club directors indicated that sales was still pretty decent. Therefore there must still be some Model-A owners that care enough about making their car accurate to spend the money buy that book.



.
.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Corley

I hope you can now see that this question does not make any sense... To further explain:


First, if you had the book and followed the book, then you may still have a question about the process. Right? Second, you, again, assume one has the book, and they may not. Right?. Third, as your last sentence intimates, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and due to a vehicles history, modifications, or whatever, the book may not hold the answer in this case. Right? Lastly, that sentence seems to indicate that there is only one process in completing a task, the way the book guides you to do it, which is simply not true. The same result can be achieved with several different approaches and methods. Right?


Right. (All in good fun!)

I think this whole thread topic has about run its course but I am going to share one more analogy that you can either choose to embrace, -or you can form your own opinion and believe what you want.


Just as in Baseball, --or Golf, ...or in most Motorsports there is a Rulebook that is the 'Guideline' by which we are to use if we want to participate as a group. The Model-A RG&JS is nothing more than a Rulebook with guidelines.


Just like in PGA's Rulebook, it does not teach you how to play the game of Golf. It merely gives you a 'standards' by which you are to play by. If you go to a golf course to play a round, other players on the course do not care whether you Tee-off with a #2 Wood or a #5 Iron. If they are standing there watching, (-and wanting to play thru!!) while you "doing it your way", they really don't care and probably are just glad you are not in their group. I'm sure that is how some hobbyists view these guys bragging that their rusted POS is a survivor car that is all original.


But back to the original topic of the rulebook, the RG&JS really is nothing more than just a suggestion for a way that you & your friends are to play if you are seeking to accurately assemble.


That same mindset applies to all types of other sports too. Nothing in a Baseball rulebook shows 'how' to play the game. Nothing in the RG&JS shows 'how' to restore your Model-A. Its sole purpose is to be the benchmark in adjudication, and to suggest what individual parts are likely authentically correct on your vehicle.

Originally Posted by cpf240

As great a resource the JS & RG book is, it doesn't, and probably can't, cover everything. Having said that, it is a good first place to look for "how it is/was supposed to look".


One will have to look to other resources for the 'how-to' questions.

Great point.


.
.

[Mark DeRoseau]

Love the golf analogy..... But I think the point is that most are asking, how far to clear the trees for the dogleg left. And the answer isn't a 5 iron, or a 3 wood. And definitely not read the PGA's Rulebook. It's about answering 210-230 yards out, or not at all.... Too many people see others on the "tee box" and wanna chime in that I'm doing something incorrectly or I'm clubbed wrong when they have no idea of my capability... If ya see me on the tee box and I have an iron in my hand, don't tell me I should have a driver, when I only asked for the yardage. And if ya tell me to read the Rulebook, I hope your golf cart is fast than mine, cause the demolition derby is on....

[Corley]

Cool response Mark! I'm having trouble hitting my balls too...

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Mark DeRoseau

Love the golf analogy..... But I think the point is that most are asking, how far to clear the trees for the dogleg left. And the answer isn't a 5 iron, or a 3 wood. And definitely not read the PGA's Rulebook. It's about answering 210-230 yards out, or not at all.... Too many people see others on the "tee box" and wanna chime in that I'm doing something incorrectly or I'm clubbed wrong when they have no idea of my capability... If ya see me on the tee box and I have an iron in my hand, don't tell me I should have a driver, when I only asked for the yardage. And if ya tell me to read the Rulebook, I hope your golf cart is fast than mine, cause the demolition derby is on....

Love your analogy too. One thought though..... sometimes if you are hanging out at the clubhouse, the Pro will walk by and give you a free tip to try. If you don't put forth the effort to do what the Pro says, what does the Pro typically say next time??

Listen, I agree wholeheartedly there are some here who post on any post as a way to get their numbers higher. You also gotta understand that many that truly DO know the correct answer have chosen to sit in the background and observe for various reasons.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Love your analogy too. One thought though..... sometimes if you are hanging out at the clubhouse, the Pro will walk by and give you a free tip to try. If you don't put forth the effort to do what the Pro says, what does the Pro typically say next time??

Listen, I agree wholeheartedly there are some here who post on any post as a way to get their numbers higher. You also gotta understand that many that truly DO know the correct answer have chosen to sit in the background and observe for various reasons.

That's a "yes" too both paragraphs......