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Old 05-13-2018, 11:38 AM   #1
redmodelt
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Default Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

Before telling someone to check the Judging Standards, make sure the information is covered in them. Just because there is a chapter covering X does not mean that the question is covered in chapter X.
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Old 05-13-2018, 01:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
Before telling someone to check the Judging Standards, make sure the information is covered in them. Just because there is a chapter covering X does not mean that the question is covered in chapter X.

Not implying you do, but I really don't understand the non-answer of telling someone (sometimes in a less than mannerly way) to check the Judging Standards, Service Bulletins, whatever. Certainly it's a good idea to have those sources but not everyone does. If they do, presumably they would check them before asking the question. Granted one should answer with correct information or at least acknowledge if they're unsure. But if they can't/won't answer the question, why bother posting at all?


Seems to me the best answer would be something like, "Per Judging Standards chapter 4, page 9, the lower framistan carriage bolt should be raven finish."
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Old 05-13-2018, 01:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

Behind that ^ 100%.
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

I agree too. If we want to encourage younger folks to participate, lets just answer the question. No harm in that. If you don't want to answer the question, then why be snarky and say that it's found in the bulletins or JS. If you don't want to answer the question, then just don't say anything. The same goes with telling someone to search. That's just plain rude in my opinion.

I can tell you that I have spent hours and hours doing searches on this forum, and sometimes the search engine is not very good. I also use the "site:" command in Google to search this forum and others. Some people, particularly newbies either don't have the patience or know some of the terminology to do an adequate search.

I have now invested a lot of money to now have the JS, the bulletins, all three Les Andrews books, and a few others. I have spent hours most every night reading, reading, reading. However, in the year that I have had my Model A, I did not get to that point over night. Also, I am like a guy with a PhD going on his first job. I have a log of "book learning", but not so much in line of hands on experience, particularly anything on the inside of the engine, transmission, or rear end. I will get there eventually, but in the meantime I may ask a question from time to time that might seem basic from someone else's prospective.

All that being said, to any new person reading this, it is very helpful to use the search function, and another very helpful FREE resource are the assembly diagrams that the various vendors have in their catalogs and their on-line stores.

Yet another good resource is the links to other websites found at the very top of this forum page. Look those up, and if you find something relevant to a project you are working on, then bookmark the link you find.

I generally find that if one is patient enough, one can generally find almost anything. I can almost guarantee that it has been asked or discussed before. But, I for one will still ask from time to time.

To borrow a byline from another Bill:

"Bill Soapbox"
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

Has anyone taken a Pole to see how many Ford Barn members own a copy of the "Judging Standards". I've managed to have a good time in the hobby for 50+ years without a copy, don't know if I've really missed anything by not being an expert. Bob
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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Why have a forum if you are going to discourage questions???
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Old 05-13-2018, 03:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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Originally Posted by Roadster62 View Post
Has anyone taken a Pole to see how many Ford Barn members own a copy of the "Judging Standards". I've managed to have a good time in the hobby for 50+ years without a copy, don't know if I've really missed anything by not being an expert. Bob
or how many have updated JS's? Mine is at least 2 maybe 3 updates behind.
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Old 05-13-2018, 04:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

I had a young fellow here working on his old VW.He needed a measurement for his brake pedal setting,so he got on his phone and asked a VW forum he belonged to.Over a dozen answers telling him what manual to buy,where to buy it,and a couple of people telling him what page the answer was on.Nobody saw fit to just write,10 MM.I think somebody got tired of that foolishness and actually gave him the answer.For me,the search function here sometimes sends me into never-never land,and it takes me a couple of minutes to find my way back.
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Old 05-13-2018, 09:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

Well said 51
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Old 05-14-2018, 12:22 AM   #10
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

Agreed. I notice a lot nastiness along with distracting and unhelpful comments from some here.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:35 AM   #11
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

One thing I've noticed is that some folks post just to exercise their thumbs.
If you don't have an accurate/authoritative/informed/experienced/insightful comment or answer.......many I see do not!
Why bother? Just imho
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Old 05-14-2018, 09:16 AM   #12
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
Before telling someone to check the Judging Standards, make sure the information is covered in them. Just because there is a chapter covering X does not mean that the question is covered in chapter X.
I think that this is a very good subject.
My copy of the judging standards is up to date, and I have found that not all information is covered; only the parts that are visible to an observer. Some of the information is quite vague, I believe because more research is needed and being carried out.
I encourage questions on all Model A topics and if a question is covered in the judging standards, I offer to e-mail a copy of the topic to the interested person.

Last edited by Growley bear; 05-14-2018 at 09:17 AM. Reason: add text
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:11 AM   #13
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

After being a Pastor for over 30 years and have found that telling folks to "check the book" never seems to be the answer their looking for, even if the answer is in there.
Sometimes it's the answer we give when we don't actually know the answer ourselves, Huh!
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

I agree lets answer the question to the best of ability.
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Old 05-20-2018, 07:19 PM   #15
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
Before telling someone to check the Judging Standards, make sure the information is covered in them. Just because there is a chapter covering X does not mean that the question is covered in chapter X.
The best solution is to look up the answer in the judging standards and then give the person the answer and reference the page of the standards where you found it. Hopefully that will encourage them to buy a set, or if they have a set look there before asking.

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Old 05-20-2018, 07:49 PM   #16
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

Personally I would probably never ask questions that could be answered by the J S book, as my car will never be judged , at least not by anybody that really knows As anyway, as I only want a car that works, and looks presentable from 20 feet or so. You know, a 20/20 car, one that looks good driving by at 20 mph from 20 feet away. But, one other thing that I have noticed, that kinda bugs me, is that it seems that some people don't fully read an OPs question, as their answers will tell the OP to do things, or check things, that they clearly stated that they have already done.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:34 AM   #17
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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Personally I would probably never ask questions that could be answered by the J S book, as my car will never be judged , at least not by anybody that really knows As anyway, as I only want a car that works, and looks presentable from 20 feet or so. You know, a 20/20 car, one that looks good driving by at 20 mph from 20 feet away. But, one other thing that I have noticed, that kinda bugs me, is that it seems that some people don't fully read an OPs question, as their answers will tell the OP to do things, or check things, that they clearly stated that they have already done.
I also like the idea of a 20/20 car. There is something else that comes into play as to why the judging standards are important to people with 20/20 cars. Whenever I buy something for my car (like maybe a generator) quite often the part that is correct per the judging standards will cost the same as the part that is incorrect. As time goes on the car will become more "correct" with the correct parts and when it is sold will be worth more. No, mine is not for sale.

Charlie Stephens

Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 05-21-2018 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 05-21-2018, 12:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

A lot of people seem to forget that the title of the book is
Restoration Guidelines
. . . . . . . . . . . . & Judging Standards
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Old 05-21-2018, 04:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

Yes, the RESTORATION GUIDELINES and judging standards book contains a wealth of information concerning the Model A. It is a valuable resource and a good research tool.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

I have a copy of the Australian Service Bulletins.

If I ask a question, feel free to quote the page number and issue.

Thanks.
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