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Old 12-07-2018, 01:50 PM   #21
Benson
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Here are seven different valve types I have removed in last 10 years from cores.

There have been others but they were dirty or damaged.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg tn_zenith float valves.jpg (79.2 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg tn_zenith float valve types.jpg (76.2 KB, 59 views)

Last edited by Benson; 12-07-2018 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:42 PM   #22
darrylkmc
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Benson,

Thanks for the photos. I thought l was missing something and spent much time yesterday researching valves. I probably have 5 styles, but have none of the Modern styles.

Attached are photos of some Fuel Valve Assemblies l took yesterday, reducing the size to post here did them no favors.

I guess l have not come across any valves so stuck that it broke and created such an involved correction.

Darryl in Fairbanks


Photos are the two styles I usually come across. I got the envelope with three or four of these types of valves..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20181207_125029831.jpg (268.8 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20181207_124625230_1.jpg (253.7 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20181207_133808214.jpg (271.7 KB, 30 views)

Last edited by darrylkmc; 12-07-2018 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 12-07-2018, 06:15 PM   #23
scicala
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

"Sal, I think this is where you and Vince were struggling with the concept of the pilot. The slot had been broken (stripped) on just the one side, so if the pilot on the tool could have indexed into the center of the seat, that would have given the tool something to pivot on instead of the opposite side of the slot (-which was broken.). Interesting about Zenith moving to Abingdon as my shop is about 30 minutes away from there and I never knew they had relocated to there."




Brent, I understand now. The tool needs to have a pilot to go into the ID of the seat.


Zenith is still in business in Abingdon, but struggled since they left Detroit. They left to avoid paying union wages and the high heating/maintenance costs in Detroit.


Sal
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:54 AM   #24
Will N
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

This is where I'm still confused. See all those pictures Benson and Daryl posted? They all show valve variations that are an assembly- the needle is captured in the seat and the whole assembly is removed by that hex head that is above the surface of the upper body casting. There's no groove or screwdriver or special tool needed to extract the seat- unless maybe the hex part of the assembly broke off, leaving the seat behind embedded deep in the upper body casting?

The model T carbs had a separate seat and needle (pic attached), and the seat had slots that required a special tool to remove. This sounds to me what Brent is describing, but I've never seen a Zenith Model A carb with a float valve like this.
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File Type: jpg g seat.JPG (16.1 KB, 4 views)
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:43 AM   #25
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will N View Post
This is where I'm still confused. See all those pictures Benson and Daryl posted? They all show valve variations that are an assembly- the needle is captured in the seat and the whole assembly is removed by that hex head that is above the surface of the upper body casting. There's no groove or screwdriver or special tool needed to extract the seat- unless maybe the hex part of the assembly broke off, leaving the seat behind embedded deep in the upper body casting?

The model T carbs had a separate seat and needle (pic attached), and the seat had slots that required a special tool to remove. This sounds to me what Brent is describing, but I've never seen a Zenith Model A carb with a float valve like this.



Will, with all due respect, I am pretty sure this was explained fully above (-and high-lighted in RED below) but I will state it again for all of those that are still confused. One part of our business as a Model-A mechanics is repairing what previous Model-A mechanics before us "fixed". Maybe this is why I am a strong proponent of doing the job correctly as I see the unnecessary amount of frustration and amount of monies that are spent by the owner correcting it.


In retrospect, years ago I should have started a Wall of Shame showing some of what we encounter and allow others to post similar stupidity they have encountered. In this particular case, the carburetor we needed to repair came off of a fairly new Model-A owner's car that had a similar seat as you pictured. Very likely it was pirated from some different type carburetor and made to work on this carburetor ...and we just needed to get it out to install a correct one. I thought I was pretty clear in that I only wanted to know if someone knew of a commercially manufactured tool with the pilot made into the tip, and really had no intent to discuss the incorrect seat. Hopefully this makes sense now and I apologize for confusing you.












Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Sal, I think this is where you and Vince were struggling with the concept of the pilot. The slot had been broken (stripped) on just the one side, so if the pilot on the tool could have indexed into the center of the seat, that would have given the tool something to pivot on instead of the opposite side of the slot (-which was broken.). Interesting about Zenith moving to Abingdon as my shop is about 30 minutes away from there and I never knew they had relocated to there.

Thanks Dudley for the pix and the numbers for those tools. Larry, that is pretty close to what I was looking for.


To the rest that responded, -thank you! I know that some of you responded with some comments questioning what I was thinking/doing, and that is OK
but you also need to realize that I am often times in the business of repairing what others have 'fixed'. In this particular case, the wrong seat was used by a previous mechanic, ...so it was not the typical Model-A repair.


I also want to point out (--and challenge others to do the same) that I am in the 'restoration' business and not the 'replacement' business. To me, this is an unfortunate direction in which this hobby has gone over the past decade or so which is likely not good for the hobby itself. People really need to learn how to repair instead of replace.


Since many times we never hear "the rest of the story" here how the project came out, so let me close by telling you how we corrected the problem. The carburetor top was inverted and loosely clamped onto he table of the Mill. Because of the irregular shape of the area at the top of the carburetor, to stabilize that area we sprayed a couple of shots of penetrating oil onto the exterior of the carburetor top (to act as a release agent) and placed a piece of sheetmetal directly underneath on top of the Mill table to form a base. We mixed a handful of Kevlar-stranded body filler and placed it between the sheetmetal and the carburetor area on the opposite side of the seat to form a crib. When it dried, that cribbed the area to hold it while we toe-clamped it and on the manifold flange. I ordered a left-handed end mill which came yesterday and we kept pecking the seat body with the mill until it removed most of the brass of the seat. Finally when it was nearly down to the carburetor top, it loosened by the force of the mill flutes grabbing the seat where we then could finish unscrewing it by hand. Likely the vibrations of the end mill pecking against the surface along with the end of the mill trying to grab the brass is what freed the seat free. Thanks everyone!!



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Old 12-10-2018, 03:45 PM   #26
Will N
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Default Re: Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

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Brent, Thanks, and sorry I missed the the part where you did respond that a wrong seat was used. I should read more carefully!
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Old 12-10-2018, 04:46 PM   #27
darrylkmc
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Default Carburetor Float Valve Seat Wrench

Many of us are trying to restore.

A picture is worth a Thousand words.

Darryl in Fairbanks
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