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Old 05-24-2018, 09:41 AM   #41
Synchro909
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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Originally Posted by updraught View Post
I have a copy of the Australian Service Bulletins.

If I ask a question, feel free to quote the page number and issue.

Thanks.
As Upgraught points out, judging standards are not all the same. Directing someone to them for an answer is pointless and condescending. Not all of us are interested in being fussy about minor details to make our car just like it left the factory. I understand those who do but it seems in some cases, the reverse is not so. Just MHO!
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Old 05-27-2018, 02:46 AM   #42
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

As a retired 45 year career auto body repairman, painter, mechanic, with 6 years in the Air Force as a 431 aircraft maintenance guy I have been savaged on this site by a couple of ''groups'' on here. My hobby is not restoring existing cars, I build my own from the frame on up. Suits me, I do it to relax. I'm a solitary kind of guy. I use LOTS of Ford bits and pieces so the Ford Barn interests me. I don't think I've ever asked a question about building or maintaining a vehicle. I have presented a few instances of what I have used Ford pieces for in my applications in a couple of threads and have not been well received at all. So the presentation of a non-answer or reference to a source not everyone is privy to has a tendency to sour me on that person's future posts. A website can die the Death of a Thousand cuts delivered by only 3 or 4 ''experts''.
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Old 05-27-2018, 05:45 AM   #43
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

I can just about afford the car let alone the books.

I would rather drive than read.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:25 PM   #44
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Exactly!! By a show of hands, who here owns that book? ...
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Old 05-28-2018, 03:52 AM   #45
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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So let me see if I understand this correctly. Some should spend time and money to gain reference materials and knowledge and they should just give it away to others who feel the books are not worth their time or money?
Yeah, people really really want to waste $5,000 on trying to get books from overseas that will, yes will, be lost in the post over & over (when was the past time you got an intact parcel/parcel at all?) in order to gap their spark plugs.

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A website can die the Death of a Thousand cuts delivered by only 3 or 4 ''experts''.
I see that all too often.
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Old 05-28-2018, 04:45 AM   #46
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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The tide has changed over the last 10 years from being fussy about how the cotter pin is curled on a 500 pointer to an original rusty POS being driven and enjoyed.
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Old 05-28-2018, 09:09 AM   #47
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

"I don't submit anything for judging, you can judge it if you want, but I don't give a crap if it's not up to your standards, it's mine and I'll do what I want with it."

But, maybe that's not the point. I imagine that many times people who have the judging standards in their library don't understand why someone else posted a question, when the answer is right there in the js. WHY? Well, maybe they don't have the document, and don't want to spend $$ on something regarding "judging", or maybe it's just quicker to post the question for the experts on this forum.

Who cares about the reason for asking the question, if you know the answer, give it, if not, well then, as they say, you don't need to post anything. If you want to refer the asker to some other document, something online would be much better than referring people to a hard copy doc they probably don't have access to.

Just what I think, nothing more...
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Old 05-28-2018, 10:09 AM   #48
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

The "Book" is also called the "Restoration Guidelines" .. If you dont follow what it says why ask a question ?.. Years ago if someone did answer the question correctly and it agrees with the "BOOK" you would get other people saying, its not like that on MY car.. So now many dont bother to answer at all because it just starts a war..
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Old 05-28-2018, 11:43 AM   #49
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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If you dont follow what it (the JS&RG book) says why ask a question ?...

I hope you can now see that this question does not make any sense... To further explain:


First, if you had the book and followed the book, then you may still have a question about the process. Right? Second, you, again, assume one has the book, and they may not. Right?. Third, as your last sentence intimates, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and due to a vehicles history, modifications, or whatever, the book may not hold the answer in this case. Right? Lastly, that sentence seems to indicate that there is only one process in completing a task, the way the book guides you to do it, which is simply not true. The same result can be achieved with several different approaches and methods. Right?


Right. (All in good fun!)
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Old 05-28-2018, 11:54 AM   #50
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

As great a resource the JS & RG book is, it doesn't, and probably can't, cover everything. Having said that, it is a good first place to look for "how it is/was supposed to look".


One will have to look to other resources for the 'how-to' questions.
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Old 05-28-2018, 12:45 PM   #51
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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The tide has changed over the last 10 years from being fussy about how the cotter pin is curled on a 500 pointer to an original rusty POS being driven and enjoyed.

I guess that is basically a true statement, ...but maybe the truer statement is that 'tide' was basically told they were no longer welcomed here so they moved on to another location so now there are very few here to discuss that portion of the hobby.


FWIW, I asked the question a few months ago to a B.o.D. on each of the two clubs about do they really sell that many RG&JS books these days, -and both club directors indicated that sales was still pretty decent. Therefore there must still be some Model-A owners that care enough about making their car accurate to spend the money buy that book.



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Old 05-28-2018, 01:11 PM   #52
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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I hope you can now see that this question does not make any sense... To further explain:


First, if you had the book and followed the book, then you may still have a question about the process. Right? Second, you, again, assume one has the book, and they may not. Right?. Third, as your last sentence intimates, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and due to a vehicles history, modifications, or whatever, the book may not hold the answer in this case. Right? Lastly, that sentence seems to indicate that there is only one process in completing a task, the way the book guides you to do it, which is simply not true. The same result can be achieved with several different approaches and methods. Right?


Right. (All in good fun!)

I think this whole thread topic has about run its course but I am going to share one more analogy that you can either choose to embrace, -or you can form your own opinion and believe what you want.


Just as in Baseball, --or Golf, ...or in most Motorsports there is a Rulebook that is the 'Guideline' by which we are to use if we want to participate as a group. The Model-A RG&JS is nothing more than a Rulebook with guidelines.


Just like in PGA's Rulebook, it does not teach you how to play the game of Golf. It merely gives you a 'standards' by which you are to play by. If you go to a golf course to play a round, other players on the course do not care whether you Tee-off with a #2 Wood or a #5 Iron. If they are standing there watching, (-and wanting to play thru!!) while you "doing it your way", they really don't care and probably are just glad you are not in their group. I'm sure that is how some hobbyists view these guys bragging that their rusted POS is a survivor car that is all original.


But back to the original topic of the rulebook, the RG&JS really is nothing more than just a suggestion for a way that you & your friends are to play if you are seeking to accurately assemble.


That same mindset applies to all types of other sports too. Nothing in a Baseball rulebook shows 'how' to play the game. Nothing in the RG&JS shows 'how' to restore your Model-A. Its sole purpose is to be the benchmark in adjudication, and to suggest what individual parts are likely authentically correct on your vehicle.




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Originally Posted by cpf240 View Post
As great a resource the JS & RG book is, it doesn't, and probably can't, cover everything. Having said that, it is a good first place to look for "how it is/was supposed to look".


One will have to look to other resources for the 'how-to' questions.

Great point.


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Old 05-28-2018, 05:16 PM   #53
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

Love the golf analogy..... But I think the point is that most are asking, how far to clear the trees for the dogleg left. And the answer isn't a 5 iron, or a 3 wood. And definitely not read the PGA's Rulebook. It's about answering 210-230 yards out, or not at all.... Too many people see others on the "tee box" and wanna chime in that I'm doing something incorrectly or I'm clubbed wrong when they have no idea of my capability... If ya see me on the tee box and I have an iron in my hand, don't tell me I should have a driver, when I only asked for the yardage. And if ya tell me to read the Rulebook, I hope your golf cart is fast than mine, cause the demolition derby is on....
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:21 AM   #54
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

Cool response Mark! I'm having trouble hitting my balls too...
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:35 AM   #55
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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Love the golf analogy..... But I think the point is that most are asking, how far to clear the trees for the dogleg left. And the answer isn't a 5 iron, or a 3 wood. And definitely not read the PGA's Rulebook. It's about answering 210-230 yards out, or not at all.... Too many people see others on the "tee box" and wanna chime in that I'm doing something incorrectly or I'm clubbed wrong when they have no idea of my capability... If ya see me on the tee box and I have an iron in my hand, don't tell me I should have a driver, when I only asked for the yardage. And if ya tell me to read the Rulebook, I hope your golf cart is fast than mine, cause the demolition derby is on....
Love your analogy too. One thought though..... sometimes if you are hanging out at the clubhouse, the Pro will walk by and give you a free tip to try. If you don't put forth the effort to do what the Pro says, what does the Pro typically say next time??

Listen, I agree wholeheartedly there are some here who post on any post as a way to get their numbers higher. You also gotta understand that many that truly DO know the correct answer have chosen to sit in the background and observe for various reasons.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:07 AM   #56
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Default Re: Telling someone to check the Judging Standards

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Love your analogy too. One thought though..... sometimes if you are hanging out at the clubhouse, the Pro will walk by and give you a free tip to try. If you don't put forth the effort to do what the Pro says, what does the Pro typically say next time??

Listen, I agree wholeheartedly there are some here who post on any post as a way to get their numbers higher. You also gotta understand that many that truly DO know the correct answer have chosen to sit in the background and observe for various reasons.
That's a "yes" too both paragraphs......
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