Want to adapt a F-O-M to my flat 6. Advice?

[tubman]

This is an interesting subject. Personally, I have never seen one (a flathead 6 with a F-O-M) or even heard of one, and I have been around a long time. I am staring to think this was a combination that was talked about, but probably never made it into production. Can anyone refute this?

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by tubman

This is an interesting subject. Personally, I have never seen one (a flathead 6 with a F-O-M) or even heard of one, and I have been around a long time. I am staring to think this was a combination that was talked about, but probably never made it into production. Can anyone refute this?

In post number 52 on this thread Drbrown writes: "In my adjacent thread questioning longevity of F-O-M's, one Barn Member raved about how his 6 with F-O-M performed."

I don't know if the guy was raving about a OHV 52 or newer 6,or the flat 6 of 1951.

[tubman]

I saw that as well, and though there was nothing definite, I think he was referring to an overhead 6. I do know that when I was in high school, a friends parents bought a new '54 with a six and Ford-a-Matic, and he could beat our flatheads with it (and quite soundly, too.) I probably had about 80,000 less miles on it,

[LazarusLong]

Update for anyone still following this thread.

I now have pretty much everything I need to make the swap,except for a flat 6 FOM bellhousing ,a 1 brl flat 6 carb with the correct FOM dashpot,and a FOM driveshaft. I have agreed to buy a FOM driveshaft from a guy in Mo,and am waiting to hear from him on shipping.

I have a spare flat 6 manual shift bellhousing and flat 8 manual shift bellhousing,and if worse comes to worse,I can always cut and weld them together to make one.

I now have the car running,steering (changed the steering box),handling,and stopping like a new one,and am driving it pretty much every day it isn't raining.

I just can't imagine anyone being happier with a car than I am this old beat-up 51 business coupe. Hope to start in sanding down and priming sections of the body this week to prime and paint with whatever spray cans I happen to have in order to preserve it for the time when I will be restoring the body,paint,and interior. The car was sanded down to the bare metal at some time in the past,and then painted without using primer. Over time,maybe 4 different colors. Even the dash has color popping off and leaving bare metal with no primer.

Going to sand it down to the bare metal again,and then prime it with self-etching primer using a roller and spray cans. I will use spray cans and a roller to shoot temporary color over it to in order to keep it from rusting again.

Pulled the seats out of it and installed one bucket seat from a Honda so I can start doing patch work on the floors on the passenger side,and do some wiring work under the dash as I find the time.

Which is good because I need to pause on the "throw cash at it for parts and labor" phase,and morph into the "don't spend much money and do labor on it" phrase.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by LazarusLong

I have a spare flat 6 manual shift bellhousing and flat 8 manual shift bellhousing,and if worse comes to worse,I can always cut and weld them together to make one.

I don't see how this can help; perhaps you meant a "flat 8 automatic bellhousing"?

[38 coupe]

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I hate to be the bringer of bad news but I remember a discussion in the V8 Times advisor section where the 49-51 advisor concluded that Ford never did make a six cylinder FOM in 1951. You may want to contact the advisor, Cecil Goff, to get the details on how he came to this conclusion.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by 38 coupe

I hate to be the bringer of bad news but I remember a discussion in the V8 Times advisor section where the 49-51 advisor concluded that Ford never did make a six cylinder FOM in 1951. You may want to contact the advisor, Cecil Goff, to get the details on how he came to this conclusion.

This is what I think as well. The bellhousing would have been a one year only item, and I can't see Ford tooling up for it as an extra cost option on an automobile meant to be a price leader. It'd be nice to know what really went down.

[scicala]

LazarusLong bought the factory brochure on EBAY that I found, that said the Fordomatic was available on 6 and 8 cyl. engines in 1951. I just think there may be a couple out there, but so rare that nobody (here anyway) has ever seen one.

Sal

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by tubman

I saw that as well, and though there was nothing definite, I think he was referring to an overhead 6. I do know that when I was in high school, a friends parents bought a new '54 with a six and Ford-a-Matic, and he could beat our flatheads with it (and quite soundly, too.) I probably had about 80,000 less miles on it,

I think you may be right on that. 51 was the first year of the FOM,and people back then were hesitant to try anything new. By 52 when the OHV inline 6 came out the FOM already had a good reputation for reliability,and it was a dream come true for people who lived and drove in hilly territory.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by tubman

I don't see how this can help; perhaps you meant a "flat 8 automatic bellhousing"?

Sorry,while it is true I have several flat 8 standard shift bellhousings,I also now have two Flat 8 FOM bellhousings. I just bought the second one this weekend by accident from a guy that had a complete and operational FOM he had just pulled from his 51 Victoria because he wanted to put a C4 in it. I drove 300 miles one way to pick it up,and damned if it didn't come with the FOM bellhousing,torque converter,flex plate,2 6V FOM starters, and the 51 FOM driveshaft yoke.

That's the kind of surprise I can learn to live with

Pretty much all I am missing now is the single barrel carb with the dash pot,which I will probably never find and will end up using a newer carb from a 216 or 223,and the FOM speedo cable,which can be bought any day of the week you want to buy one.

Oh,and the correct bellhousing,which I will probably never find. I am going to keep looking,but I have pretty much accepted having to cut and weld one of the Flat 8 FOM bellhousings to my spare flat 6 standard shift bellhousing in order to make one.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by scicala

LazarusLong bought the factory brochure on EBAY that I found, that said the Fordomatic was available on 6 and 8 cyl. engines in 1951. I just think there may be a couple out there, but so rare that nobody (here anyway) has ever seen one.

Sal

I had another guy on another board say he checked with the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn,and even they don't know if a flat 6 was ever sold with a FOM. We all know it was in the sales literature as a option at the start of 51,but by mid year they had quit advertising it was available with the flat 6 engine.

If the Henry Ford museum can't find any evidence of any being made or sold,chances are they are pretty rare.

The good news is that IF one can be found,I should be able to buy it pretty cheap because I have to be the only one out there that even wants it.

Face it,people in 1951 tended to be more frugal than the people of today,and anybody "frugal" enough to buy a base car with a flat 6 engine wasn't going to pop for another couple of hundred dollars for something that was going to give them less gas mileage. They would pay extra for a overdrive,radio,and heater,but not for a auto trans.

The people with the bucks to spend that wanted to spend it bought a Crestliner or a Victoria,not base cars.

[rotorwrench]

The problem is that FoMoCo was also frugal, even with the younger Henry Ford III at the helm. Several long time contributors to the Early Ford V8 Club magazine have come to the conclusion that the H-6 never had an automatic transmission mated when this question was asked of them. This info is from folks with years of Ford experience behind them. That makes it about as rare as it gets. Since the Ford flathead 6 already used a back plate, it would be a matter of fabricating a back plate to fit the 6 cylinder block with machining to take the FOM transmission bell. If you know a good machinist, an adapter could be fabricated. The Crankshaft may also need a recess if the one that's there is not big enough. The other thing may be the drive flex plate or starter drive. Since there are virtually no FOM flex plates for the H6, one would have to be fabricated unless the V8 part would just happen to fit. The difference in location of the starters between the V8 & the 6 is another problem that might arise. The FOM has no modulator so the throttle linkages would have to be fabricated and made to adjust properly for shift function. The list goes on.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

Does the crank on the 6 need to be machined for the t.c. hub?

I have no idea. I now have a rebuilt 51 FOM sitting on my shop floor,a torque converter,and a flex plate. I also have a flat 6 in a 50 parts car I will pull so I can try to marry all this stuff on my shop floor where I can see what I am doing.

Now that you have mentioned the back of the crank,I am going to have to check to see if the back of a 50 226 crank is different than the back of a 51 226 crank.

Sorry for the late reply.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by tubman

I don't see how this can help; perhaps you meant a "flat 8 automatic bellhousing"?

Yes,I did. Thanks for the correction.

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by toby

A Fordomatic was not offered in 51 for a 226, 6 cylinder. .....

Yet Ford advertising says they were.

[lio45]

In any case, with your custom bellhousing you will truly have an unique yet period-correct '51 coupe... whether or not FoMoCo made a handful of them or zero, you'll probably have the only one in existence at the moment!

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by lio45

In any case, with your custom bellhousing you will truly have an unique yet period-correct '51 coupe... whether or not FoMoCo made a handful of them or zero, you'll probably have the only one in existence at the moment!

And I am going to have a TO of fun by lying and telling people I bought it like that,

[lio45]

Originally Posted by LazarusLong

Face it,people in 1951 tended to be more frugal than the people of today,and anybody "frugal" enough to buy a base car with a flat 6 engine wasn't going to pop for another couple of hundred dollars for something that was going to give them less gas mileage. They would pay extra for a overdrive,radio,and heater,but not for a auto trans.

The people with the bucks to spend that wanted to spend it bought a Crestliner or a Victoria,not base cars.

I was actually thinking about your logic, and I believe I have an irrefutable argument to offer to counter it: your own example!

Out of the more than one million buyers who bought Fords in 1951, it's entirely plausible that there were a few frugal war vets with knee problems and/or a bad left leg, and their powertrain of choice would be the same as yours... the inline 6 mated to the Ford-O-Matic

[LazarusLong]

Originally Posted by lio45

I was actually thinking about your logic, and I believe I have an irrefutable argument to offer to counter it: your own example!

Out of the more than one million buyers who bought Fords in 1951, it's entirely plausible that there were a few frugal war vets with knee problems and/or a bad left leg, and their powertrain of choice would be the same as yours... the inline 6 mated to the Ford-O-Matic

Yes,but they had other options. They could have just bought a V-8 Ford coupe,or bought a GM or Studebaker with a automatic. Chances are any Ford dealer back then would have sold a V-8 Ford coupe to a one-legged vet for the same price as a flathead 6 coupe.

I even have a 51 Victoria with the V-8 engine and FOM transmission myself. I was driving it yesterday.

[LazarusLong]

Update in case anyone is interested.

I now have a rebuilt short-shaft 51 FOM,the driveshaft, the correct 3.3:31 rear end,torque converter,flex plate,and I recently bought a Ford 6 cylinder bellhousing and starter plate for a 51 pu.

I even bought a junk 50 Ford tudor with the flat 6 in it so I could pull the engine and do all the figuring and misfiguring on how and what to do while the engine and trans sat on my shop floor so I could see what I am doing.

I believe the 6 cylinder truck bellhousing and starter plate will be the key to making a easy adapter. It will be months before I get around to it,but I will update this thread once I get started if anyone is interested.

Still looking for a 51 Ford carb with the auto trans dashpot,though.