Good photo of Skip's impeller?

[Old Henry]

[QUOTE=51 MERC-CT;653334]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

So, looks like I'll just keep doing what I've been doing - keep using the pump I've got and remove the thermostat in the summer to increase flow and put it back in for winter for the heater to work better.
QUOTE]

Was just giving some thought as to what I would consider doing if I had an early ('32-'48) flathead and were in the same situation.
First remove the A.F.R's. (automatic flow regulators), then install M.F.R's.
(manual flow regulators).
The M.F.R's could be in the form of ball valves (no bigger than the I.D. of the head outlets) and located somewhere in the upper hose.
This could be rigged to give control of each side manually from the dash.
Set temp. for normal driving, come to a long hill at altitude, open 'm up.
(Concours types please disregard)

If I were to go with a MFR it would be the cardboard in front of the radiator in the winter.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Chris

I used Skip's pumps . . . [with] . . . NO thermostats as the instructions stated . . .

If you're saying that Skip's pumps actually come with written instructions to NOT use thermostats there has been some deceptive promotion of them on here claiming that they are the best thing since sliced bread and cure all overheating problems without exception for thermostats. That was the only reason I was even considering buying them - so that I could leave my thermostats in year 'round instead of having to remove them every spring and put them back in every fall. Wow! Sure glad I dodged that bullet.

Thanks again to 51 MERC-CT for tipping me off.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

If you're saying that Skip's pumps actually come with written instructions to NOT use thermostats there has been some deceptive promotion of them on here claiming that they are the best thing since sliced bread and cure all overheating problems without exception for thermostats. That was the only reason I was even considering buying them - so that I could leave my thermostats in year 'round instead of having to remove them every spring and put them back in every fall. Wow! Sure glad I dodged that bullet.

Thanks again to 51 MERC-CT for tipping me off.

Yes, the instructions state that not running thermostats helps increase the flow, and to only run them in cold weather.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

If you're saying that Skip's pumps actually come with written instructions to NOT use thermostats there has been some deceptive promotion of them on here claiming that they are the best thing since sliced bread and cure all overheating problems without exception for thermostats. That was the only reason I was even considering buying them - so that I could leave my thermostats in year 'round instead of having to remove them every spring and put them back in every fall. Wow! Sure glad I dodged that bullet.

Thanks again to 51 MERC-CT for tipping me off.

Wait, hold the phone. I thought in a previous post you mentioned that you called Skip and he told you not to use thermostats.

I don't want to go back and re-read all the posts, but the thermostat thing is just coming to light now? Was this all done to stir up the pot?

[51 MERC-CT]

[QUOTE=Old Henry;653395]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

If I were to go with a MFR it would be the cardboard in front of the radiator in the winter.

Yep!, Can remember my father doing it as standard practice on his '38 former police car (still had the patch where the whip antenna went.)

[Old Henry]

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Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Wait, hold the phone. I thought in a previous post you mentioned that you called Skip and he told you not to use thermostats.

I don't want to go back and re-read all the posts, but the thermostat thing is just coming to light now? Was this all done to stir up the pot?

I'm not sure what you mean by "stir up the pot". Such surely has not been nor is now my intention. I have just been seeking accurate information and in all of the "promotions" for Skip's pumps I have ever read (including all but one of the 85 posts on this thread) I have never read that they were not recommended for use with thermostats. I first heard of that in an email communication with Skip just yesterday which I initiated as a result of 51 MERC-CT's comment (#30) and now hear from Chris that such restriciton is actually included with every one of Skip's pumps. Either there is no one but me using thermostats or such very relevant and material fact has at least been omitted if not outright concealed. I have taken quite a bit of gas on this thread for questioning the virtues of Skip's pumps and that I should just buy them and quit asking questions. I would have been pretty teed-off if I had taken that advice, counting on being able to use my thermostats year 'round, then, when I recieved the pumps, read the warning not to use thermostats with them. It's not just the 85 posts on this thread. It's the zillion promotions by you know who for years that has never mentioned this problem with Skip's pumps.

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

Are you saying that the mixed-flow design is better for creating unrestricted flow but not as good at creating pressure to push through restrictions which the centrifugal pump may well be better at?

Using a fresh design he could design it for more flow, more pressure, whatever he wanted. The main difference is I'd expect the mixed flow to have less internal turbulence and less tendency to cavitate.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

I'm not sure what you mean by "stir up the pot". Such surely has not been nor is now my intention. I have just been seeking accurate information and in all of the "promotions" for Skip's pumps I have ever read (including all but one of the 85 posts on this thread) I have never read that they were not recommended for use with thermostats. I first heard of that in an email communication with Skip just yesterday which I initiated as a result of 51 MERC-CT's comment and now hear from Chris that such restriciton is actually included with every one of Skip's pumps. Either there is no one but me using thermostats or such very relevant and material fact has at least been omitted if not outright concealed.

I did not run thermostats in my 33 or 34...never had an overheat. My 41 Ford I do have T-stats in, but I have a set of junky Bob Drake pumps on it...I am doing a new engine for it and I will get a set of Skips pumps. Not trying to promote, just saying they work, and work well.

[Old Henry]

Rest assured that any promotion of Skip's pumps in the future that does not include the caveat about the thermostats is going to get a response from me regarding that problem. Nothing against Skip or his pumps, just in favor of full disclosure of all relevant facts.

[Lawrie]

Henry, I have skips pumps on my 33 with the std engine,I made and fitted t/stats in the tops hoses,It sure made a difference in warming up and so far have been great.But I havent been out in it in summer yet,(thats 6 months away).
Also the pumps are the old ones rebuilt.

If you want to fit the t/stats do what I did and buy a pair from the local auto shop,tig weld them on a small length of stainless exhaust tube then slip them into the top hoses.

Hope you get your engine back soon,
Lawrie

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by Chris

I did not run thermostats in my 33 or 34...never had an overheat. My 41 Ford I do have T-stats in, but I have a set of junky Bob Drake pumps on it...I am doing a new engine for it and I will get a set of Skips pumps. Not trying to promote, just saying they work, and work well.

I'm curious Chris, as to why you consider Bob Drakes pumps junky? I have them on my C59A and they are the bees knees as far as I can see. They work just fine, for me anyway. I'm not defending them, I just have a thirst for all knowledge about things flathead.

[Mike in AZ]

hunt them poor little quackers???...snifffff....what shot do you prefer??....use the old 12 gauge Ithaca pump with high brass....Mike

[G.M.]

I have posted maybe a 100 times about the use of modern thermostats in the hot summer causing the engine to run hot even with 8 .125 holes drilled in the flange to try to increase flow. Thermostats with small flow openings are like putting washers in the hose as recommended by lots of people for 60 or more years. The water was going out the over flow and the washers, the same as small thermostats slowed the flow, less flow eased up on the volume of water going into the top tank.
Less water into the top tank allowed less to flow out the over flow. This works in cooler weather but causes the engine to run hot in hot weather BECAUSE
less water is flowing through the radiator. With the 4 lb pressure cap or 3 lb valve
and either NO thermostats or Bob Shewmans full flow stats much more water is FORCED through the radiator. As I said a hundred times better cooling is achieved with more water in the system (filled up in the neck), more water flow by using pumps that deliver more water. Like the promotion or not there are NO PUMPS that come within 25 gallons in 5 minutes of what Skips pump produce. A shroud and a QUALITY 6 bladed fan also help. Make anyone of these improvements and you get some improvement, do all of them and it won't go over 180 at fast idle or road speeds in 100 degree temperatures. Henry I think you must be so engrossed in your ramblings that you don't read what others write or maybe you just don't understand. I would say it's both. G.M.

[CC33]

All of this talk got me thinking about rebuilding my entabulator. This link may help.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ba_1296857530

[L78CHEVELLE]

Here is some hands on experience with Bob Drake's, Dennis Carpenter's, and Skip's pumps. I have installed them all on 1940 Fords I have bought and sold with Bob Shewman's large opening thermostats that install in the upper hoses near the radiator. I keep the thermostats in the cars year round. In the winter time there was no difference in the temperature of the cars under any circumstance. In the summer there was no difference in the temperature of the cars except in extreme conditions like on very hot days in traffic. In extreme conditions Skips pumps kept the temperature of the car at 180 while the other pumps would go up to 190 or as much as 200. When I would get back into a good traffic flow the other pumps would cool the car down to 180 within two miles. Bob Drake's pumps were $100 a pair on sale. I think Dennis Carpenter's pumps were $125. and I think Skips pumps were about $200. Bob puts his name on his pumps outer housing which I don't like. From memory I think Bob Shewman's thermostats were around $35 for the pair. I'm doing all these prices from memory and they could be wrong. One more thing if you need to talk to Skip or Bob Shewman you call them and talk to them. That is not the case with the other providers. I just wanted to shed some light from my flashlight on this water pump issue. There is no correct answer for all the circumstances that could exist with each individuals needs.

[Old Henry]

G.M. I dare you, no, double dare you, no, let's make it double DOG dare you to post the reference to one post of yours that has ever said that Skip's pumps should not be used with any stock thermostats in 32-48 cars. I have a pretty good memory and don't remember any and just spent some time searching and didn't find any.

[G.M.]

I think you must be losing your memory I posted it so many times I'm getting tired of typing it trying to get it to sink in to people like you. G.M.

[Old Henry]

In searching for any warning by G.M. that Skip's pumps should not be used with stock thermostats in any 32-48 cars I found this image from a post of his in August 2010 that shows skips impeller quite well. That and Tim Ayers' pictures is all I was asking for when I started this thread. Sure was hard to get.

[Tim Ayers]

This thread has gone epic....

Let me shift gears and get us to a happier place: 1.5 or 1.6 valves? Discuss...

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

This thread has gone epic....

Amen to that. And all I asked for was a picture of something, no opinions, no judgements, no criticisms, no testimonials, no advice, no arguing, no bickering, just a picture. Geeezzz.