You Get What You Pay For

[Ken Crans]

Just in general... When you guys buy parts from someone else, one persons description is truly different from someone else. They might say it's in nice shape when actually its not useable, it sure is hard to get an honest description,and the money that we pay. with that said, what do we go by?

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Ken Crans

Just in general... When you guys buy parts from someone else, one persons description is truly different from someone else. They might say it's in nice shape when actually its not useable, it sure is hard to get an honest description,and the money that we pay. with that said, what do we go by?

Ken, As you are aware, you "go on" instinct" and often enough, the sellers reputation.
There are good, honest folks out there. Mike Driskell immediately comes to mind. I'd like to think I am another.
I know both Mike and myself tend to describe used parts perhaps in worse shape than they actually are thereby avoiding any buyer's remorse.
It is unfortunate and I agree with you that there are many sellers that are simply ignorant and / or deceptive.
When I see an ad that states "great shape for it's age" I tend to think the worst. "For it's age" is a calculated disclaimer.
Bottom line? Don't get discouraged, just be careful...
Ya ask questions, form a "gut" feeling about the seller and take yer chances...

[Mike51Merc]

To me "honesty" isn't a word I can rely on for anything because it's all in the head of the person doing the describing. In other words beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A seller can honestly say something is in great shape but that's an opinion not a fact.

What I look for are objective facts, and to get the facts I have to ask specific questions. They don't say "buyer beware" for nothing.

Conversation:
"It's in great shape"
Does it have any dents?
"Just a few"
Is the paint scratched"
"Just a little"
And so it goes........

[Sixseven]

I know that my perspective on rust changed when I moved from Vermont to California, then a little more when I came to Georgia. In VT, a little rust meant the car still cast a shadow. Today I look at a little rust as a small patch panels might be needed and surface rust in some locations. But then again as a kid in VT with no money, I was dealing with cast-off cars and parts that nobody else wanted.

As far as trusting sellers for their description,I think it is a matter of experience that I have with them. Then I also consider the age of the seller, if it can be determined as I know that my perspective changed as I got older. Yet another factor is whether the seller is a flipper or is honestly in the hobby. A flipper always has a less critical view point, a serious hobbiest or professional is generally more conservative in their description.

One problem I have is when I look at new reproduction parts in the various catalogs and see the same apparent part selling for 1/2 in one catalog or is it twice in the other catalog? How do I gauge quality there?

[Uncle Bob]

Agree with the comments above. Often it's like translating a foreign language and you have to work out the idiom.

For example; a guy in Arizona writes "rust free" in his ad. You've got a decent possibility he means it doesn't have any (or significant) rust. A guy in Michigan writes that same statement and what he might mean is he's throwing in the rust for no extra charge.

It's one of the frustration of sellers on sites like this who don't post up pictures on their classified ads. They may think "Hey, I said it's a clabbershackle, everybody knows what they look like!" It's about qualifying your description for accuracy buddy.

[PeterC]

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I am of the philosophy "an educated consumer is the best customer” meaning that if you are after a particular part - you should be prepared to know exactly what you are looking for and ask all the right questions to ensure the quality of the part - asking specific questions as to condition down to specifics. Also get some detailed pictures - pay a bit more for the right part and stay away from those that do not want to provide details.


Mike Driskill is a good example of a guy who knows his stuff and is willing to share details from a seller standpoint -

[19Fordy]

I always ask for plenty of close up photos. Then I call and speak with the seller. Still, it's a gamble.

[34pickup]

All I can say is its a crap shoot.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Agree with the comments above. Often it's like translating a foreign language and you have to work out the idiom.

For example; a guy in Arizona writes "rust free" in his ad. You've got a decent possibility he means it doesn't have any (or significant) rust. A guy in Michigan writes that same statement and what he might mean is he's throwing in the rust for no extra charge.

It's one of the frustration of sellers on sites like this who don't post up pictures on their classified ads. They may think "Hey, I said it's a clabbershackle, everybody knows what they look like!" It's about qualifying your description for accuracy buddy.

I drove to Pennsylvania a number of years ago to check out a '40 Ford coupe. The seller insisted it was "rust free" even after I'd asked for specific (known trouble areas) about corrosion. Now, this is an 800+ mile trip (one way) for me. When I got there, at first I thought he was showing me a different car by mistake. Nope, turns out what was apparently to be understood was it was "rust free" for a car that was 70 years old. The remainder of that short visit did not bode well for the seller.

C'mon, "rust free" means just that... RUST FREE. I don't give a poop about age as that has nothing to do with the aforementioned issue.
The guy was a cheat and a liar. No two ways about it.

[39topless]

I have purchased a lot of parts from Barners and have never had a problem but
when the seller states "no PayPal" I pass on the item. It's not about the measly 3% fee that PayPal charges the seller, it's about the buyer's protection that comes with a PayPal purchase. When a seller won't accept a payment through PayPal, I just assume he does not want to offer the buyer any recourse. If the problem for the seller was the 3%, he could just ask the buyer to pay that.

[Scott H in Wheaton]

To me "rust free" means no cancerous rust that has eaten holes or caused the panel to weaken. Surface rust can be ground off or sandblasted without having to do a patch panel.

[J Franklin]

When it is stated "rust free" maybe he meant he wasn't charging for it?

[ford38v8]

An "honest" description of something can have a different meaning than what you heard. For instance, if you have a recollection of what Bill Billechek said regarding the NFL rules on inflation of footballs, he was being honest in his carefully chosen wording, but he knew the balls would not have passed the test after they cooled to the 50º F field temperature, which wasn't specified in the rules. Bottom line, when the wording of a description seems carefully composed, be suspicious.

[funrunr]

I found a 41 coupe in the trading times years ago, it was in Pennsylvania and 9hrs away. My wife and I drove through the snow storm with a trailer. Once there the car didn't look anything like the one in the picture. The guy stated the pictures were from 20 years prior when his dad still drove it. Not one solid body panel on this car. I spent 15 minutes telling him how wrong and deceitful he was and left. I vowed to myself to never deceit someone like that guy did me. Pictures help a lot as long as they're current.

[Mike B]

I think the main point is, ask for pictures of areas you want to see...whether it be a car, fender, or a henway.

Ofcourse ask for a description of other things as ell...and weigh the description vs the pics.

As mentioned before, some sellers just don't know...me, I'm in the like mind as Kube mentioned...point out the bad..and talk about the good.

Personally I'd be sweating bullets if someone were to drive a long way to look at something I didn't represent correctly...how someone could/would do that, I have no idea...but does bring up another point, between here at the Barn, as well as the HAMB...many will go look at "it" for you, and save you a day or two of a wasted trip for nothing.

Small (shipped) parts, you take your chance with pics..cars? Well, the longer the drive, the longer you should spend looking for someone who can take a look at it.

[Mike in Mass]

THIRTY YEARS AGO , my brother flew out to Wisconsin,hitchiked another 40 miles, to look at a 39 coupe.,,, bought it ! well ,,couple weeks later my brother ,dad an me drive out to get it (from massashusetts mind you ). bolted 8 inch channel irons to a 10 ft bed of an F-350 flatbed. All the way out there, alls we here is how smokin nice this coupe is WELL ,we pull into the guys yard , its out front ,sun is shining, AND THERE is a patch panel above the running board looked like the guy fired the rivets from a gattlin gun. I says ,,Carl didn,t you see that patch panel when you looked at it ! 27 hours for that ! ! ALL he could muster was IT WAS DARK OUT WHEN I LOOKED AT IT ! I don,t know who had a rougher ride home ,my brother or the coupe stickin 6 feet of the back of the truck . Mike

[19ED30]

Seller say's No Rott !!!! Because where the Rust would be is MISSING """"

No Rott ! Seller Quote

And if you ask for more photo's it's like you are hherasing the seller,

[Royal Ryser]

I bought a 36 Tudor sight-unseen out of Hemmings. The car was in Michigan, so I knew there was a pretty good chance it had some "rust" problems. I got a few photos and they looked Ok but I knew not to really trust them. However, when I talked to the owner, I got the idea he was a straight shooter (risky, I know.) He said the body was in good shape, but "if you hit the fenders with a hammer, you'll put a hole through them." He was right. The fenders had some rust through that had been patched by brazing on some handmade panels, and leading over the patches. All told, he was square with me and I was satisfied
That said, I have sold some parts that I described as fairly as I could, but I wondered if I had overstated their condition. I never had anyone complain about how I had described them, and so I think the descriptions were OK. All around, it is a crap shoot, but many more people are honest and straightforward than are crooks. Still, what I think is excellent, somebody else might think is poor......

[Vanspeed]

I feel I am a honest seller. I have sold three vintage fords out of country, one to japan, one to England and the other New Zealand. All are super happy. I sell parts the same way. I recently bought something for my pickup and told Ken about it as he has dealed with him in the past. He got a good honest description, I didn't. It is getting very difficult for me to buy without seeing it, without touching it.

[51PanelMan]

Originally Posted by Vanspeed

I feel I am a honest seller. I have sold three vintage fords out of country, one to japan, one to England and the other New Zealand. All are super happy. I sell parts the same way. I recently bought something for my pickup and told Ken about it as he has dealed with him in the past. He got a good honest description, I didn't. It is getting very difficult for me to buy without seeing it, without touching it.

Since this is obviously aimed at me, I'll add my reply.

I immediately offered you a full refund including shipping. You declined and said that you're already fixing it. You saw the detailed pictures and made your decision. Pictures are worth a thousand words. I apologize that you didn't get a nearly perfect 60 year old used part. I've been selling parts for almost a decade and have sold parts and trucks to people all over the world. I rarely have had issues like yours and have always stood behind what I've sold. I've always corrected the issue because my reputation, honesty and self worth is much greater than any old part. This isn't a business for me. It's a hobby. I take the time to seek out the parts, to photo them, to post them, to go back and forth with the buyer, to package them, to ship them. I don't get rich doing this. I barely fund my truck hobby with whatever little money I make selling these parts. I help others with their projects by getting parts that they need or can't find. I, too, buy parts online and have online pictures and the seller's description to go by. I make a decision and take a chance. Sometimes it's a crap shoot.

It's always best to buy parts in person so the buyer can touch and feel the part but that's hard to do from a few thousand miles. I don't feel that it's right for the OP to go about this indirectly in a public forum. This was between you and I. If Ken got involved with it and had an issue, he could have contacted me. He has my phone number.

My full refund offer still stands.

EDIT: Ken didn't have this issue when he bought parts from me for his Panel truck and he went through the same buying process as you. I also spoke with another person who lives in your area and has bought parts from me. Ken also made his opinion known to this person about the running boards I sold to that person. Yet that person also went through the same buying process and had no issues. Matter fact, I text with that person regularly and also buy parts from him. Perhaps the OP can help you find "$50 parts" that aren't beat up beyond repair and aren't full of rot and rust holes.

Lastly, if there was still an issue them why did you send me a PM on FTE looking for another part?

I stand behind the quality of the used 60+ year old parts that I sell.