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Old 06-27-2010, 01:59 AM   #1
30Tudor
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Default Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I’m always interested on this site about how when people suggest they may want to add a more modern item to their Model A to improve performance or reliability how much debate it garners. This applies to alternators versus generators, regular brakes versus floaters, etc. I really appreciate the opinions because it helps me realize that the stock Model A was pretty good in its day and for most people the modifications are trying to mask other symptoms rather than actually fix problems. For example an alternator will not fix wiring/electrical issues.

I’m hoping that by posting this thread it will solicit opinions from people on the value of modifications they have made to their Model A and where you think the biggest bang-for-the-buck is. I suspect something similar was likely on the old fordbarn. What would your top three bang-for-the-buck modifications be and why?

I like to experiment and tinker so here are some of the crazy and unfortunately expensive things I have done over the years – this stuff adds up but I sure enjoy the hobby. My car is a driver and I have no desire to have a points car (well OK maybe I do someday). I am trying to preserve the stock look of my Model A as much as possible.

I suspect some people would prefer this post be on the “hot rod & customs” forum rather than here. I don’t mean to insult anybody or cause a fight (I have no opinions on oil). I'm just trying to contribute something to this forum and perhaps help out others based on what I learned - and am still learning thanks to all of you.

Here we go....

· Modern Engine mounts – A guy gave me an extra set of his and I put them in. Not sure it was worth the trouble. My frame hasn’t buckled yet as some people claim it will. I put the rear support in and believe it is necessary to be installed.
· Oil filter – this is a “feel good” thing for me as I still change the oil every 500 miles regardless. With the filter I can now spend more money and make more of a mess everytime I change the oil.
· Air filter – I use the large K&N filter to make the air flow resistance as low as possible. Can’t understand why you wouldn’t use an air filter if you want your engine to last? Where would the bugs have gone that get trapped on my filter?
· Modern Starter Bendix – I had a bendix bolt in my previous p/u (not retrieved by the previous owner) jam between the flywheel and the housing bringing the car to an abrupt grinding stop – fortunately there was no damage and the bolt came out easily using a magnet pick-up through the starter hole after I got everything unstuck by pushing the car backwards in gear. The old bendix now terrifies me.
· LED Brake Lights – huge difference in brightness as I suspect the halogen bulbs are as well.
· LED Centre Rear Light- huge safety upgrade from a rear visibility perspective – a necessity IMO.
· Cast Iron Drums – safety and reliability improvement – very expensive but you can’t put a price on being able to stop after braking down a long hill.
· Brake floaters –Currently installing “Ted’s” – My stock brakes are in excellent shape and are properly set-up however, there is absolutely no question in my mind, based on my experience, the floaters improve braking responsiveness and ease.
· High Compression head – huge bang for the buck for me in terms of power improvement and drivability.
· Ported and polished intake and exhaust ports and manifolds (did it myself when I rebuilt the engine) – hard to tell as I didn’t have a reference but I think it made a big difference. I did the HC head, B cam, porting and muffler installation all at the same time and the impact of all of these was huge.
· Model B cam – A very generous guy in our club gave me an NOS camshaft. Again no reference point for me but I think it made a difference.
· Aries muffler – I considered the dyno test results showing a HP increase but the bigger issue was I could never really get my old muffler to properly seal to the manifold even after hours of metal bashing, sleeves, gaskets and trying everything else. I have a used muffler for free (less shipping) if you would like it.
· Alternator – absolutely made a huge difference to headlight brightness, however, I really like the look of the generator and am considering going back but adding an EVR. If I keep the alternator, I think I will add the better bearing and sleeve set on the water pump. Also intend to add the exciter circuit.
· Mitchell Overdrive – I actually don't use it in third gear most of the time on tours because the average speed is 40 -45 MPH (I may have 3:54 gears in my differential), however, I use it in second gear all the time. If I ever get permission from "the boss" to order the Mitchell synchromesh transmission I will be looking to get better 2-3 gear spacing. These are big expense items and I’m not sure they really offer a high bang for the buck.
· Aluminum cam shaft gear – my prior fibre gear had some teeth come off it – there is no difference in noise between my car with the metal gear and other cars which have the fibre gear. I also shimmed up the thrust plunger so the clearance is 2 to 5 thousands to stop any shaft movement. It's a crazy thing we do in our club but it seems to work.
· Four blade fan – I’m assuming this is an improvement. I’m just terrified of the 2 blade fan after hearing that the blades may come off – do I need to be? I like the look of the two blade fan better and theoretically it would even reduce the probability of having my fingers cut off by 50%.
· Radiator overflow tank – got a little concerned about seeing people’s radiators overflow on tours and the amount of antifreeze that was getting spewed on the road. With the standard set-up it’s a bit tricky to find the right level and people always seem to be topping up wether they need to our not. The overflow tank makes this trial and error process a none-issue and its good for the environment.
· Shortened pitman arm – turning ease – definately good bang for the buck
· Modern water pump seal – big improvement and a no brainer - haven’t had a leak since. Installing the front thrust washer is a must.
· Downsizing my carburetor jets – my theory was that with modern higher energy content fuels the original jet sizes are sized too large. I undersized my jets by two drill sizes each and I know I get better way gas mileage than others (prior to the overdrive), although I haven’t actually measured it - I just compare tank fill amount with others when we gas up on tour. Further adjusting the GAV actually makes a difference. What do you think - I must be crazy and my engine is going to blow up?
· Bowl fuel filter – Luckily it’s not catching any chunks of rust which is a good thing, however, I had to modify it to make it fit into the sediment bowl cap better.
· Amber Cowl Light signal bulbs – home painted. There is no question people coming toward me can see my front signal lights. I didn’t see much other use for the cowl lights as they don’t really provide that much light.
· Turn signal buzzer – definitely makes me aware my turn signals are on when I turn or change lanes at the beginning of the season. By the end of the season I am actually turning off the signals in my regular car manually. Then we freeze up here in Canada for 6 months and I have to re-teach myself all over in the spring. On tours I like to time how long it takes people to turn off their turn signals – I think the longest so far is 30 minutes.
· Additional ground cable – one from the battery to the frame and one from the battery to the engine – no issues with a sluggish starter. Question this if you have engine splash pans as I do.
· Babbit versus Inserts – I went with babbit and hope I never have the opportunity to debate the merits of babbit versus inserts again –touch wood.
· Modern points – not sure on this one - the big thing is probably the condenser location and getting it further away from head and manifold heat. I have the wireless bottom plate and I’m a bit nervous based on some feedback on this site about it potentially burning out. Keeping an eye on it.
· Modern ignition switch – replaced my old pop-out switch after having had a person with an issue on a tour. I will likely add some gauges down the road and if they are lighted, this can’t be done as effectively with the pop-out. If doing it again would get the switch with the accessory position.
· Number 8 stud clamp modification – I can easily take the ignition cable off without having to undo the number 8 stud and risk head warping or a gasket failure. Not sure I even need the cable clamp anyway. Previously posted a picture on this.
· Rear Trunk – absolutely couldn’t live without it when we go on tours or trips. Where else would I put my 50lbs of tools and all the spares I require if my modifications don't work.
· Premium gasoline – avoids ethanol issues which in Canada is sometimes a problem with the 87 octane regular. Haven’t experienced any knock or ping, however, maybe I don’t know what they sound like anyway.
· Stone guard? Considering installing one after seeing the picture on this site showing damage that a rock can do falling off of a truck. On the other side of the argument, I hate the idea of having to clean the bugs out of my radiator as this is easy without the guard.
· Step plates – ordered a set a while back and they are still in the box. I am now thinking that too much “bling” may not be a good thing.

So in terms of the biggest bang for the buck, my top three would be the; high compression head, the rear trunk and the rear centre brake light. Any thoughts on the above?

What would be your top three modifications and why?
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Old 06-27-2010, 02:18 AM   #2
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

hmm... I like your radiator overflow and airfilter. I was surprised to not find one on my A or find any pictures of one. I would, however, suggest you create a heat shield for your airfilter as all the heat coming off your engine is negatively affecting your car's performance.. if that's even an issue on these cars! haha

good thread!
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Old 06-27-2010, 06:32 AM   #3
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I have lots of the modifications you mentioned. Add to that a lightened flywheel.

I recently removed the radiator overflow. I am searching for a ghost problem. I did the normal dumb thing by changing two things at once. I installed the radiator overflow with a sealed radiator cap and I changed from aluminum to cast head. After these changes, I could no longer run with 50% antifreeze without running hotter when pushing the car. It runs cool with 20%. The jury is still out on the overflow causing the problem.

The reason I suspected the over flow is that it caused the water pump to run at slightly higher head pressure. Centrifugal pumps will pump less with higher head. I don't know if the slight difference is enough to cause this problem.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I've modified my 30 Tudor with a lot of performance-safety mods.None that couldn't be changed back.

Top 3 are probably:
seat belts.

Lincoln hydraulic brakes( tried to get floaters to work on a restored mechanical set up. Gave up after 3 years. good brakes when they worked right).

and F150 overdrive transmission
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

1. Add counterweights to prolong babbitt life.

2. Add the stand up filter to the shutoff valve to prolong the shutoff valve life and keep junk out of the carb.

3. Install an electronic voltage regulator to prolong the life of the battery and put less drag on the belt and engine. I'll bet almost no one adjusts the third brush as they should each time the demands change.

4. Add a high compression head to help efficiency, and for the most horsepower gain for the buck, for those wanting more power.

5. A locking collar on the water pump, so you can use the same pump on any engine and don't have to repair a worn thrust pad on an old head.

I tried, but just couldn't limit it to 3 as I feel these 5 things are well worth the money.
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

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Tom,
Do you use carb. air filter's on your A's? what do you think about them, are they any help to an A model? i've heard arug. on both sides. it seem's like it would be a good idea, but Henry must not have thought so.... Appreciate your thought's.....Louis.
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

You left air conditioning off! We have reviewed many of these modifications in the Model A Times along with air conditioning for the Model A, but that is the modification that my wife says was the best!
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Old 06-27-2010, 10:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I've been accused of being a purist but I do like my aluminum 2 blade fan, the locking collar on my waterpump, and my high compression head. If you're going to tour, an overdrive is also nice.
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Old 06-27-2010, 10:25 AM   #9
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Hi 30tudor, If I absolutely have to keep it to 3, I'm going to say hi-comp iron head, B cam, and slung crankshaft. This assumes everything else is operating properly, of course! Happy Motoring!
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I have a page on 'are modifications needed' on my site...fwiw,jm
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:15 AM   #11
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

#1~I use the 'Air Maze' air filter can without a paper or foam filter. I do encircle the can with a 1/16" or so wire mesh to keep the light rocks from being drawn in. And bees or other exoskeleton bugs from holding my butterfly open, as happened on my 1875 cc VW Dune Buggy carb.

#2~For the guy following me, not the entire LED rear plastic lens amber over red brake lite, but rather the adapter and halogen lamp. That way I can keep my glass. Brighter in the daylight is better. Especially with one side only lit. I do have an alt. but don't need it.

#3~No pop-out and a modern point set on the upper plate.

Those would be my three picks. Oh and seat belts for when the doors swing open!

Nothing else needed. As to 'Higher Energy Fuels'...???

· Downsizing my carburetor jets – my theory was that with modern higher energy content fuels the original jet sizes are sized too large. I undersized my jets by two drill sizes each and I know I get better way gas mileage than others (prior to the overdrive), although I haven’t actually measured it - I just compare tank fill amount with others when we gas up on tour. Further adjusting the GAV actually makes a difference. What do you think - I must be crazy and my engine is going to blow up?

30Tudor; Wait! Here Is What Fuel Was In 1918...About the same BTU's as today. So why change the jets? From the Gas Motor by Max Kushlan, 2nd. Edition, 1918. The Branch Publishing Co. Chicago

About180,000 btu/gallon



skip.

Last edited by skip; 07-01-2010 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:26 AM   #12
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I added a cd player/ipod,
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Old 06-27-2010, 12:28 PM   #13
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

30 Tudor forgot to add a bronze labrinth seal and thrust face.
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Old 06-27-2010, 12:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John LaVoy View Post
You left air conditioning off! We have reviewed many of these modifications in the Model A Times along with air conditioning for the Model A, but that is the modification that my wife says was the best!

Why have a model A....isnt that the fun, did we forget the car did fine over 80 years... But really air conditioning.. Buy a Shay!
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Old 06-27-2010, 12:58 PM   #15
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I'm a purest and like to keep my A's stock. Original carburetor, distributor, transmission, brakes, etc.

The 3 modifications I believe in are :

1. ENGINE: counterbalanced crankshaft, lightened flywheel, adjustable lifters, "B" camshaft, modern clutch & pressure plate, leakless water pump, high compression head, balanced engine.

2. DIFFERENTAL: 3.54 gears

3. TURNSIGNALS : Logolite (has its own wiring system) Note: they don't teach hand signals in school anymore. A good safety item.

I live at 3500' elevation, a lot of our tours take us higher, the additional horse power by the internal engine modifications is well worth the expense and increased engine life.

Ron
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Old 06-27-2010, 01:53 PM   #16
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I have tried lots of modification on my model A's over the past 50 years. I'm not trying to tell anybody what they should or shouldn't do. I feel that everybody should be able to make whatever mods that they want without rude comments from the tight ass die hards.

Here is what I believe are the worst. Modern points, electronic ignition, floating motor mounts, air filters on the carb, distributor heat shields, any type of automatic advance on the distributor, thermostat, the old four blade fan that were used on the 33 and 34four cylinder trucks, hydraulic brakes and micro filters .

Here is what I believe are the best for reliability. Stand up filter in the gas cut off valve and I think this is a necessity, Voltage regulator and I have had great results with the Fun Projects cut out style, aluminum repro 2 blade fan, heavy duty radiator with 8 fins per inch, brass rear water pump bushing with 2 Chicago rawhide seals from Snyder, Brass pack nut with seal from Bratton because their aluminum sealed packnut sticks to the rear bushing, and the sealed pack nuts from Snyder has a black seal that is visible in the front and is obviously not original look, modern front water pump bearing and sleeve from Bratton, I use the water pump shaft collar and the water pump bolts that look like studs. with these mods to the water pump you don't need packing and some of my water pumps are working great after 15 years with NO maintainance needed except to back off the packing nut and apply grease. I feel that a water temperture gauge is a needed accessory. I use and have had NO problems with the wireless lower distributor plate, this is the style that is used with original points and uses a brass acorn nut. I use the modern barrel starter drive and have had NO problems in 4 years since first using them. i use the i 1/2 inch shortened pitman arm and teflon buttons in the tie rod ends and drag link.

Here is the performance mods that I use. Regular Brumfield 5.9 higher compression head. I use this head on three of my model A's and believe it to be the best performance mod for the buck. Winfield super street 3/4race cam used on two of my cars and ground by Bill Stipe. This cam has 317 lift , idles good and has great low and mid range with better all around performance. I use the Pertronix flame thrower coil and believe that it gives better performance than electronic ignition. I use a model B flywheel in my roadster, it is nearly 20 pounds lighter and gives better throttle response and helps with smoother gear shifts.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:07 PM   #17
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Purdy Swoft,
Well said, some good idea's on modifications, and good common sense, Thank's.
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

purdy why dont you like the floating motor mounts thinking about these on a 30 im doing would like your imput thanks
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:31 PM   #19
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Default my top 3:

seat belts

Mitchell overdrive

high compression head.


the original posting above cries out for a long detailed "Marshall Daut-type"
reply. perhaps another day.......
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Old 06-27-2010, 10:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

allen, I installed a set on our 31 coupe a few years back and soon regretted it. Clutch chatter started shortly afterwards. With the original rear mounts you have a solid crossmember between the frame and the flywheel housing. With the engine and transmission floating and the torque tube and rear end connected to the transmission the whole drive train has a tendency to lose some stability. Usually the drive train will creep foward from the pressure of using the clutch and brake pedals and from the force of the rear wheels as they pull the car foward. Some of the early flatheads had floating type motor mounts but they had torque rods that attached to the rear of the engine to stabalize the drive train. With the floating motor mounts installed in the model A you don't have the torque rods. The frame will be weakened and will eventually sag at the cowl and a wide gap will appear at the lower rear corners of the hood. You will lose the ability to use the engine pans that help so much with cooling and grounding the engine to the frame. The only good thing that I can say about floating motor mounts is that it is easier to remove and replace the engine because you won't need to use a frame spreader.

This is just my views and experience with float A motor mounts. I don't recommend them. Many people seem to like and use them and it is not my intention to offend anybody that uses them.
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Old 06-27-2010, 10:48 PM   #21
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis View Post
Tom,
Do you use carb. air filter's on your A's? what do you think about them, are they any help to an A model? i've heard arug. on both sides. it seem's like it would be a good idea, but Henry must not have thought so.... Appreciate your thought's.....Louis.
I don't use an air filter, and I also try to never drive on dirt roads. If I have to drive on dirt roads I drive slow and never follow anyone close enough to eat his dust.
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Old 06-27-2010, 10:55 PM   #22
Purdy Swoft
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

allen, with the use of float A motor mounts you lose the solid crossmember between the frame and the flywheel housing. The drive train loses stability and bad clutch chatter can result. The frame is weakened and frame sag will eventually creep in. In some cases a wide gap will be evident at the rear lower hood corners. You won't be able to use engine pans that makes the model A run 15% cooler plus you will lose the ground between the frame and engine.
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:24 PM   #23
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

LED tail lights
EVR for inside the generator
GOOD non paper air filter
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:58 AM   #24
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I have a speedster with lots of mods, but my three for general use by anyone are
1. Battery wire direct to the transmission or bell housing with an additional wire to the frame. Cheap, easy, effective.
2. Internal regulating single wire alternator. Install and forget about it.
3. Leakless water pump. See #2.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:36 AM   #25
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

What guage wire do you use and do you just wire it from the positive post to the frame and the bellhousing? I have to run a ground wiire form my overdrive to the frame as well.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:26 AM   #26
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1. LED tail lights & center stop light
2. Halogen headlights
3. Seat belts
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:52 AM   #27
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Mike/Nebraska: Use the existing battery wire and run it from the positive terminal to any handy bolt on the trans or bell housing. The wire to the frame can be smaller because it does not carry much current, even with the overdrive. The part houses have a wire braid that moderns use for the same purpose. Attach it to the battery positive post and run it to the frame. You can probably use the hole in the frame where the exisiting wire attached. Make sure the connections are clean, sand through the rust, crud and paint to bare metal. You have to find someone who knows their parts inventory because when the kid at the counter asks for the appliation and looks in the parts book, its a kinda funny reaction when you tell them its for a 1930 Model A Ford. They will tell you they dont have it, but it should be in inventory. Sorry I cannot give you an application to ask for.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

as threatened, here are my thoughts on the original laundry list of modifications above:

float-a-motors: take them off. I ran a set for 10 years after a friend recommended them. after consideration of the arguments on Ahooga.com, I replaced them with stock mounts, guess what? I felt NO increase in vibration at any speed.

oil filter: unnecessary. use detergent oil and change it frequently (<2000 miles)

air filter: your carburetor typically does not like it. tried a paper filter in an air-maze, it ran & drove much better WITHOUT. have not tried the low-restriction foam motorcycle filters that many recommend. if you must use a filter, make an adapter out of some ABS street-Ls so the filter is above the carb and will not soak up leaking gas & ignite.

modern bendix: if the original bendix is in good condition and the shaft is straight, it is unnecessary. our Coupe starter hangs up occasionally with such ferocity that we cannot loosen it by rocking; I must loosen the starter to free it. this is due to excessive ring gear wear, not the bendix. it has happened with 2 different starters.

LED brake & center stop lights: never saw them on a car until we went to French Lick. I'm SOLD. we will soon be upgrading both cars.

cast iron drums: our Town Sedan has them. our Coupe has original drums with very minimal wear. guess which one stops better? the Coupe. we bought the TS recently & I have not opened the brakes up to see why. if you do not have excellent original drums, cast iron is the only way to go.

brake floaters: I tried to install some of the older style (pre-Ted's) floating front wedges once, they did not fit well enough to leave on the car. as many have said before: if your brakes are not worn or poorly adjusted there's nothing wrong with the original setup.

high compression head: love them. had a Lion 6.0 on my old Tudor it ran GREAT. the Town Sedan has a Brumfield 5.9, it runs GREAT. Brumfield seems to require less monkeying around with the spark advance on the highway than the Lion did.

B cam: no experience here, but plan to put one in the Coupe when the engine gets freshened up.

Aires muffler: is this a modification? I think not. if you install the plain steel version, it is simply a good quality replacement part! the old cheapie Midas muffler was arguably a modification, because it did not look or perform as original. the stainless mufflers that I run are modifications, I guess, but at those prices I don't ever want to buy more than one per car.

alternator: in 24 years of Model As, I never had one until we bought the TS last November. no complaints about the performance, just not crazy about the appearance.
solid state regulator is a must if you run a generator.

Mitchell overdrive: GREAT! I've had 3 cars with Mitchells and heartily endorse them without reservation.

aluminum timing gear: never had one. never had any problems with fibre gears.

four blade fan: NOT an improvement. tests by Model A Times showed no cooling improvement with four blades and neglible improvement with six blade plastic. Four blade makes water pump harder to change. I use and recommend two blade aluminum and would never run an original steel one. most overheating problems come from clogged radiators- fix that and you'll forget about the fan.

radiator overflow tank: unnecessary ugliness. we drove 2239 miles on the French Lick trip. 5 days on highway were over 100 degrees. total water used = 3 quarts. keep a gallon jug in your back seat. pardon my redundancy, but "most overheating problems come from clogged radiators"

short pitman arm: I like them, some people do not. DONT' TRY THIS AT HOME! use only the new arms from Snyder's or modified arms from someone like Wiley Higgins who makes them correctly.

modern water pump seal: I use the Extreme Duty Leakless. I can rebuild them, but not as good as James does. http://www.leaklessapumps.com/ no grease to clog up your radiator! expensive, but worth it. guaranteed 5 years, I had one start to drip slightly after 6 years service, James rebuilt it for $50 + shipping.

downsizing carburetor jets: never heard of such a proposition, but if it works, why not. better gas mileage is always desirable if it comes with no loss of performance! how 'bout doing a tech article for Model A News or Restorer magazine on this process?

bowl fuel filter: I like the appearance of the cast iron sediment bowl better. we judge the quality of a swap meet based on how many cast iron sediment bowls are seen.

turn signal lamps/buzzer: never had turn signals on a Model A until we bought the Town Sedan. I removed them when I had the steering column out (the wiring was marginally installed) and may not replace. not a bad idea in heavy traffic, just a low priority for me. LED brake lights are more important.

additional ground cable: every Model A should have one installed.

babbit vs. inserts: nothing wrong with correct babbit material poured & bored correctly.
plenty wrong if it's done wrong. would I buy a car with an insert engine correctly done? certainly. would I pay extra for inserts? nope.

modern points: you weren't sure on this one, but I am. "modern" (1970's) points are a royal pain to adjust, stock Model A points are easy as pie. today's stock condensers seem to be pretty sturdy, I've driven a lot of hot weather miles without having one fail. wireless lower plate? totally unnecessary, but you want have the correct type wire soldered to the plate. many repro original type upper & lower plates are inferior to originals.

modern ignition switch: pop-outs can and have caused me trouble, but I like them enough to forgive them. I do keep a distributor jumper wire in my small parts box to get me home in a pinch.

#8 stud clamp- put a couple flat washers on that stud in place of the cable clamp and all is well.

trunk on the sedan: like the convenience, dislike the appearance.

premium gasoline: you've got to be kidding! we run the cheapest gasoline we can find in our 2 modern cars and 2 Model As. occasionally the Coupe will idle poorly on a specific tank of gas, never any other problems.

stone guard: that was my radiator you saw pictured, but I consider the stone guards too ugly for our cars. maybe if we lived on a gravel road out in the boonies, but that is not the case.

step plates: no thanks. just don't care for how they look.


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-Forrest Gump

Last edited by Chris in WNC; 06-28-2010 at 05:44 PM. Reason: aesthetics & redundancy.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:08 PM   #29
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Chris: I want to frame your response and hang it on my garage wall. A voice of reason. Thanks for taking the time to compose that note.
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:55 PM   #30
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Wow! Thanks for all the replies - I hope this is informative reading for everybody. I sure could have used these comments before I made some of my my less-informed investments.

I just remembered that I forgot two items.

Thermostat - quicker warm up of the engine - I presumed engines perform best when they are warmed up and the faster they warm up the better. Other reasons have been given that they reduce coolant flow to stop radiator overflow but this sounds like a cure for the symptoms that result from a missing radiator baffle?

Bronze rear main bearing thrust seal - I put one in and hope I never have to find out if it is working or not.

I think I'm adding the Pertronix flamethrower coil to my post 2014 wish list. If nothing else the name makes you believe the engine will either run better or just blow up. What version works on a 6V system the 1.5 or 3.0 Ohm primary resistance?

Any thoughts on the above?
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:40 PM   #31
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

thermostat get a big YES vote here. I run 180 degree in both cars.

our Coupe only runs about 150 degrees without the 'stat. too cold.
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:08 PM   #32
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Chris - I was just thinking about your comment on the radiator overflow tank. No problem if 3 qts of water hits the road. Of course you guys are lucky down in Florida that you don't even need antifreeze, however, up in these northern climates including the northern US, we sometimes need antifreeze in July and August. Some people even drink it to stay warm (:-) Anyway, the whole point of the overflow tank is to not carry the gallon jug in your back seat and be continuously topping off your radiator.

Anyway, just a thought and thanks for your excellent comments.
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:30 PM   #33
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electric temp gauge
electric volt meter
12 volt starter and alternator
rear floatamotor
cast iron drums
nothing I would change back
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:10 PM   #34
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Cast Iron Drums, because I had a new set of Plasmeter's in inventory.

Clear distributor cap. Nice to see the spark.

Modern Points. Going back to original points.

30,000 miles on everything else original.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:29 PM   #35
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Downsizing carburetor jets sounds interesting. Where can you get smaller jet sizes?

Thanks in advance.

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Old 06-29-2010, 11:13 PM   #36
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Here is an excerpt from of an article on carburetors I did for our club magazine. This article was written to discuss some of the things I learned by trial and error and through fellow club members that weren’t mentioned in the reference materials.

Jets

I had been warned that sometimes the jets supplied from the part’s suppliers are not the same as the originals, particularly the jet orifice sizes. The jets I received from Bratton’s were the same dimensions as the originals, however, the orifice sizes were outside the drill size references that Les Andrews recommends in his book (Main Jet: #63 or #64, Cap Jet: #62 or #63, Idle Jet: #75, Compensator Jet #65) – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit_sizes for conversion to thousands. My first stop was to Princess Auto (a store up here in Canada) where I picked up a set of micro drill bits for about $3.00. I soldered the oversized jet orifices shut with 50/50 solder and re-drilled the orifices to the above specifications using a pin vice. When soldering, use an electric soldering iron or small torch and be careful not to use two much solder as it will easily flow down into the jet creating a lot more work. You also may have to use a larger drill bit and a small file to recreate the dimple at the top of each jet.

Despite the orifice re-sizing my engine was still running rich which I confirmed by having a look at the spark plugs after a test drive. Ultimately I ended up sizing the main, cap and compensator jet orifices two sizes less than recommended in Andrew’s book to get the best results. Make sure the compensator jet is sized larger than the cap jet. With these smaller orifice sizes, I now can use the GAV to optimize the mixture. My recommendation would be to start with the cap, compensator and main jet orifices 2 sizes smaller than Les Andrew’s recommendations as you can always easily remove them and drill them out to optimize performance. You only have to remove the lower carburetor casting to access these jets so they are easy to remove and change. Make sure both your cap and main jet heights are even and set at a point which coincides with the narrowest point in the venturi. This may require playing around with the jet gaskets to achieve this. Make sure that any old jet gaskets are removed from the casting particularly with the main jet. A little thread sealer on the gaskets is also recommended.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:59 AM   #37
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Thanks 30 tudor.

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Old 06-30-2010, 03:39 PM   #38
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Cup/Bottle Holder. See "Model A Times" for Ad.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:53 PM   #39
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

1. Inserted Engine
2. overdrive
3. FS Petronic Ignition
4. LED tail lights
5. 12 volts.

Couldn't stop at 3
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:07 PM   #40
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Its interesting how your understanding and appreciation for things changes as you gain experience When I brought my first Model A it was fitted with Float-o motor mounts and modern upper plate distributor. I was told that both had huge benfits in terms of reliability and drivability . This I slaveishly believed. However the more I listen the more I learn and I suspect I'm going to start reverse engineering some of those modifications and I also supsect I'm not going to be disappointed with the results . In short Henry did a pretty good job originally -Karl
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:34 PM   #41
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

My 1930 Fourdoor has a 5.9 Brumfield head, CI drums, B distributor, leakless water pump, and a modern Zenith carburator
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:47 AM   #42
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Large 4 core Radiator ,best thing I ever did . Here in Central Tx. it gets plenty hot.
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Old 07-01-2010, 12:02 PM   #43
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

30Tudor, you ask about the Pertronix coil, if you are running 6 volts you would use the 1.5 ohm. If running 12Volt use the 3.0 ohm. These coils won't need a resistor and the epoxy filled version won't leak oil like some oil filled coils when mounted with the connections at the bottom as model A coils were mounted. You will get quick starts and more power that you can feel.

I thought that I posted this info yesterday. I don't see it today so here it is again.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:23 PM   #44
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Thanks Purdy - I looked at your previous post and it sounds like you are using this coil with modern points. Is that the indeed the case?

Mike
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:27 PM   #45
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30Tudor, Actually I use original type points, they are easy to adjust and I have had No problems. I have had good results with the original points that I have got from Snyders or Brattons. I tried running the modern points and had nothing but problems. Some believe that having the condensor mounted under the distributor cap is cooler. It doesn't have any air moving over it under the cap as it does in the original position and it gets pretty hot. The only condenser failures that I remember in 50 years were in recent times with the modern condenser mounted under the cap. Actually you can mount the condenser on the coil bracket and attach the condenser wire to the switch side of the coil. I learned this many years ago. That said, the pertronix coil works great with original points. The original coil was around 20.000 volts the Flame thrower coil is 40.000 volts, it pretty much doubles the ignition power. You can feel the difference. I think the last one I got was around $40.00 Thats a lot less than electronic. I think it is pretty cool to modify the original system without makeing visible changes. It is also good to have the simple original distributor that can easily be fixed.
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Old 07-01-2010, 11:41 PM   #46
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As most people know, I don't keep model a's stock because I'm into the speed equipment. Top choices are overdrive, electronic ignition (no matter what anybody says it's simple and can change a module in the time it takes to change points & condenser) modern carb, inserted engine, high comp head, and if you want air conditioning.
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:11 AM   #47
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I'll take your muffler off your hands.
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Old 07-11-2010, 11:55 AM   #48
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Based on the feedback to this thread and other areas on fordbarn, I have ordered a modern water pump bearing and a Pertronix 40,000 volt Flamethrower coil.

I didn't even know the modern pump bearing existed and I think it makes sense in combination with my alternator. Even on my recently rebuilt pump I do have some vibration coming from the fan end so hopefully the new bearing will clear it up.

I very intrigued with the coil as it sounds very impressive. In fact I am wondering if I should have a fire extinquisher around when I take it out of the box. Perhaps I need to replace my normal coil wire with some high voltage cable used in high voltage electrical transmission. At any rate, I needed a spare coil for my kit.
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Old 07-11-2010, 03:05 PM   #49
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Boy O boy we must have been a bunch of idiots back in the forties. We drove stock model A's. Put in gasoline and had a ball. Today you might think the model A is supposed to be launched next week at Cape Kennedy. Enjoy it for what it is, an old car restored as a project to be proud of. I never heard of flo testing, might get you 500 feet more per gallon. Overdrive which you cannot use in hilly country and could buy a lot of gasoline for the outlay. LED lights, most never drive at night. High compression heads are they really that important. Stainless steel mufflers what was wrong with the $55.00 mufflers that everyone at that time was happy with? Now it's a mortal sin to use one. Well I guess I stirred the pot enough for one day. All the above venting is something that made me feel good. Throw it at me now.
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Old 07-11-2010, 04:05 PM   #50
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I feel the same way Tony. I like a basic A model, But i still enjoy looking at all of them.
Here's my 31 i just completed a few mo's. ago.
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Old 07-11-2010, 04:41 PM   #51
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I put a 39 toploader in mine and I love it! Best improvement I have made to date. I plan on putting a high comp head on it and maybe a new ignition in the future. I also like speed parts and I feel that these do not take anything away from the car being a model A. Just slightly improved.
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Old 07-11-2010, 05:37 PM   #52
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Beautiful car.

1. Overdrive
2. Good Radiator
3. High Comp Head

-Weeks

Quote:
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I feel the same way Tony. I like a basic A model, But i still enjoy looking at all of them.
Here's my 31 i just completed a few mo's. ago.
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
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I put a 39 toploader in mine and I love it! Best improvement I have made to date. I plan on putting a high comp head on it and maybe a new ignition in the future. I also like speed parts and I feel that these do not take anything away from the car being a model A. Just slightly improved.

What is a toploader? Is that some type of gun?
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Old 07-11-2010, 08:18 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony S,Fl. View Post
Boy O boy we must have been a bunch of idiots back in the forties. We drove stock model A's. Put in gasoline and had a ball. Today you might think the model A is supposed to be launched next week at Cape Kennedy. Enjoy it for what it is, an old car restored as a project to be proud of. I never heard of flo testing, might get you 500 feet more per gallon. Overdrive which you cannot use in hilly country and could buy a lot of gasoline for the outlay. LED lights, most never drive at night. High compression heads are they really that important. Stainless steel mufflers what was wrong with the $55.00 mufflers that everyone at that time was happy with? Now it's a mortal sin to use one. Well I guess I stirred the pot enough for one day. All the above venting is something that made me feel good. Throw it at me now.
Tony- no quarrel with most of your comments above, but I CAN tell you what was wrong with the $55 Midas muffler. the cheapo design causes excessive back pressure which robs power & generates heat. that's why I switched to Beaver muffler a long time ago and Aires after that. not a mortal sin to use the old one, I just prefer not to.
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Old 07-11-2010, 09:31 PM   #55
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

Hey whatever turns you on, Here is a picture of my friend's modified '31 and my stocker '31. We both drive them daily (except when we're riding our bikes) and enjoy them very much. I have to admit, his is a little faster.
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:10 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30Tudor View Post
What is a toploader? Is that some type of gun?
Yup, TOP GUN...with syncros, and.. if with zephyr gear set and 3:54s, eliminates need for $$$$ overdrive unit!!
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Old 07-11-2010, 10:47 PM   #57
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Default Re: Confessions of a Model A Modifier – Model A Upgrades?

I posted a related question some years ago, "What is your favorite upgrade/accessory?"

The winning answer was, "A cellphone and AAA's towtruck number"!
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Old 07-12-2010, 01:24 AM   #58
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Quote:
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I like to experiment and tinker so here are some of the crazy and unfortunately expensive things I have done over the years –
Blasphemer!

Mods, How dare you!!! May you go to a place where all the body styles of A's are resting and you cannot touch them, just gaze upon them and when you reach towards them they move away from you for all eternity!
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