The Ford Barn

30Tudor · 05-22-2012, 12:12 AM

I took these heads to the metal recycler last weekend. They were off a farm and victims of the Canadian winters and probably a poor harvest one year. Not sure whether the crack repair actually worked, however, I suspect it did.

sturgis 39 · 05-22-2012, 12:58 AM

I can not tell how they fixed them. Were they welded or brazed?

BILL WILLIAMSON · 05-22-2012, 01:48 AM

A looong time ago, I saw an old time machinest "stitching" a crack in a head surface. He drilled & tapped a hole at the beginning of the crack he then used a 1 1/2" long cast iron plug that was threaded on the lower end & square on the upper end. He dipped the threaded end in sulphuric acid, screwed it into the hole, snapped it off, then filed it flat. Drilled & tapped another hole, slightly overlapping the first hole, then repeated the process over & over until the whole crack was filled! I don't remember if I saw him surface the head or what kind of surfacer he had. He said the sulphuric acid was to "lock" the threads securely. Bill W.

sturgis 39 · 05-22-2012, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

A looong time ago, I saw an old time machinest "stitching" a crack in a head surface. He drilled & tapped a hole at the beginning of the crack he then used a 1 1/2" long cast iron plug that was threaded on the lower end & square on the upper end. He dipped the threaded end in sulphuric acid, screwed it into the hole, snapped it off, then filed it flat. Drilled & tapped another hole, slightly overlapping the first hole, then repeated the process over & over until the whole crack was filled! I don't remember if I saw him surface the head or what kind of surfacer he had. He said the sulphuric acid was to "lock" the threads securely. Bill W.

Bill
They still use this method. General Electric did it a few years ago on a 10 mega watt steams turbine case.

Aerocraft · 05-22-2012, 07:54 AM

I have been very pleased with the cast iron repair process offered by Kwik-Way. A modern adaptation of the process described by Bill. See www.irontite.com/

Gar Williams

J and M Machine · 05-22-2012, 08:26 AM

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We use this process and have had great results in doing so.
Many times we see others using JB weld or welding the block or head only to damage the compromised area further.
You can see below the results and once the part is painted the only one to know it's repaired is the owner.
These pictures are of a 1912 Model T and third is of the threaded pins we use to do the repairs.
We can also repair Aluminum in the same fashion.
http://www.jandm-machine.com/metalStitching.html

H. L. Chauvin · 05-22-2012, 10:28 AM

Seeing beautiful cast iron welding repair in the past on engines, especially on tractors & agrucultural equipment was very common in the past.

It was an era where people had more time than money.

Years ago, remember two (2) brothers who specialized in welding cast iron as a sideline business.

They explained that in welding cast iron, when heat from welding, (gas or electric), was concentrated in the crack area, this particular area would quickly expand with heat, (at the rate for the coefficient of expansion for cast iron), while the crack was filled & sealed. This first part of welding, i.e., the heat expansion, was not the real problem with welding cast iron.

The real problem they reported occurred very shortly after, as this cracked cast iron welded area cooled & began to shrink whereby the adjacent cast iron areas would crack from shrinkage forces as the cast iron cooled too rapidly.

To avoid cast iron shrinking, they built a wood fire inside a smal brick enclosure, (about 48" square with 24 " high walls), & allowed the fire to burn down into embers, then placed the cast iron, (heads, manifolds, engines etc.) in the enclosure & covered it with burning embers.

After the cast iron was hot enough, they removed it, welded it, returned it to the embers, & allowed it to gradually cool.

Smaller cast iron parts were prepared by two (2) persons. One heated the part with a torch, the other welded, & the torch man subsequently continued to heat the part to allow it to cool gradually. The welds were neatly finished off with grinding wheels.

Engines with babbitt had to be re-babbitted -- no problem for these two (2) guys who were experts at pouring & scraping babbitt for the old time large flywheel steam engines prior to today's industrial steam turbines.

This was a time when men had time to form wood joints with hand tools & where they built boats with multiple planks with joinery that never leaked.

Difficult today to find a carpenter who can provide a tight fitting mitre joint on a door frame -- if these particular guys had to built a boat, they would quickly learn it would sink.

jrelliott · 05-22-2012, 11:08 AM

There are a few of us who practice the older methods of cabinet making where the joints are mortise and tennon, dovetailed or dadoed. Most of the furnature I build does not contain nails. Can even cut a straight line and perpendicular to surface with a handsaw. The only problem is very few people today care about craftsmanship and want disposable furnature. Make mine to last 150 years.

05-22-2012, 12:58 AM	#2
sturgis 39 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lead. South Dakota Posts: 963	Re: Head Crack Stitching the Old Way I can not tell how they fixed them. Were they welded or brazed? __________________ IF IT CAN NOT BE FIXED WITH BLASTING WIRE, JB WELD OR DUCT TAPE ---IT CAN NOT BE FIXED Do not get me started on the stupidity of ethanol. I think one of the monitors is from Iowa and he will delete the thread.

05-22-2012, 01:48 AM	#3
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Head Crack Stitching the Old Way A looong time ago, I saw an old time machinest "stitching" a crack in a head surface. He drilled & tapped a hole at the beginning of the crack he then used a 1 1/2" long cast iron plug that was threaded on the lower end & square on the upper end. He dipped the threaded end in sulphuric acid, screwed it into the hole, snapped it off, then filed it flat. Drilled & tapped another hole, slightly overlapping the first hole, then repeated the process over & over until the whole crack was filled! I don't remember if I saw him surface the head or what kind of surfacer he had. He said the sulphuric acid was to "lock" the threads securely. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

05-22-2012, 07:54 AM	#5
Aerocraft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 1,387	Re: Head Crack Stitching the Old Way I have been very pleased with the cast iron repair process offered by Kwik-Way. A modern adaptation of the process described by Bill. See www.irontite.com/ Gar Williams

05-22-2012, 10:28 AM	#7
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Head Crack Stitching the Old Way Seeing beautiful cast iron welding repair in the past on engines, especially on tractors & agrucultural equipment was very common in the past. It was an era where people had more time than money. Years ago, remember two (2) brothers who specialized in welding cast iron as a sideline business. They explained that in welding cast iron, when heat from welding, (gas or electric), was concentrated in the crack area, this particular area would quickly expand with heat, (at the rate for the coefficient of expansion for cast iron), while the crack was filled & sealed. This first part of welding, i.e., the heat expansion, was not the real problem with welding cast iron. The real problem they reported occurred very shortly after, as this cracked cast iron welded area cooled & began to shrink whereby the adjacent cast iron areas would crack from shrinkage forces as the cast iron cooled too rapidly. To avoid cast iron shrinking, they built a wood fire inside a smal brick enclosure, (about 48" square with 24 " high walls), & allowed the fire to burn down into embers, then placed the cast iron, (heads, manifolds, engines etc.) in the enclosure & covered it with burning embers. After the cast iron was hot enough, they removed it, welded it, returned it to the embers, & allowed it to gradually cool. Smaller cast iron parts were prepared by two (2) persons. One heated the part with a torch, the other welded, & the torch man subsequently continued to heat the part to allow it to cool gradually. The welds were neatly finished off with grinding wheels. Engines with babbitt had to be re-babbitted -- no problem for these two (2) guys who were experts at pouring & scraping babbitt for the old time large flywheel steam engines prior to today's industrial steam turbines. This was a time when men had time to form wood joints with hand tools & where they built boats with multiple planks with joinery that never leaked. Difficult today to find a carpenter who can provide a tight fitting mitre joint on a door frame -- if these particular guys had to built a boat, they would quickly learn it would sink.

05-22-2012, 11:08 AM	#8
jrelliott Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pine, AZ Posts: 794	Re: Head Crack Stitching the Old Way There are a few of us who practice the older methods of cabinet making where the joints are mortise and tennon, dovetailed or dadoed. Most of the furnature I build does not contain nails. Can even cut a straight line and perpendicular to surface with a handsaw. The only problem is very few people today care about craftsmanship and want disposable furnature. Make mine to last 150 years.