The Ford Barn

leo · 09-08-2017, 08:50 AM

I'm working with an original rear steel drum. I found it to be 3 inches deep where the hub bolt bottoms are flush with the inside of the drum. The kind people on the site have advised me that after I cut through the swedge part of the bolt I may still need to tap it out with a hammer and doing so without some type of back support on the drum could cause it to bend. I didn't have anything handy for the support so I went to Lowe's and looked in the plumbing section for a coupling and found this 2 X 3 inch steel piece. It should work nicely. Does anyone think it would be strong enough as a back support for the swedging process?

redmodelt · 09-08-2017, 08:57 AM

Not for swedging, might be ok for knocking out the stud. While some may have used a press with less the 20 tons, a 20 tons or more press should be used, that pipe is not made for that kind of use. You need a solid piece under the head of the bolt.
After the studs and drums are removed you still need to check to see that the flange is flat and square to the axle before the new drums are installed. Often the face the drums fit to will need a clean up cut.

Synchro909 · 09-08-2017, 06:43 PM

I think there is more to swedging than just a support under the head. The drum and hub should be held tightly together, the whole thing supported, then put under the press for swedging. It is about the most often messed up job on a Model A. My suggestion is Talk to Randy Gross and buy a set from him already done. You won't be disappointed.
For the sake of saving a few $, you are likely to end up spending more than you stand to save and still not have anything you will be happy with.
Randy might chime in on this one.

Arlyn Bieber · 09-08-2017, 07:43 PM

It has been my experience the flange on the hub is almost always bent. You must put the hub in a metal lathe and take a cut on the flange to true it. Think about it, if the flange is bent and you swage the new drum on the bent flange, which takes about 25 tons of pressure per stud-- guess what-- the drum will be bent also. This can cause all kinds of future problems. After swaging all the studs the drum and hub must the trued with a brake drum lathe. The drums are never perfectly round so must be trued before fitting the brake shoes. A brake job is more than just replacing the shoe linings. Doing a complete brake job is very time consuming but if done right will stop the car just like when it was new. Matter a fact if done right original brakes are better than hydraulic brakes and you don't have to cut and weld a good frame along with other modifications that usually screw up something else. Just my experience after doing over a hundred brake jobs.

redmodelt · 09-09-2017, 09:44 AM

After we check the flange for true we pre assemble the drum to hub. Using the studs, we place a couple of washers, the bottom one being large enough to clear where the shoulder of the stud that sticks thru the drum. (the first one needs the edge ground to clear the raised part of hub that sticks up so everything sits flat)
2nd one the diameter of the threads and pull everything up tight. Tom made a collier that the assembly sit on, that supports the whole thing for swedging.

larrys40 · 09-09-2017, 10:30 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Arlyn Bieber

It has been my experience the flange on the hub is almost always bent. You must put the hub in a metal lathe and take a cut on the flange to true it. Think about it, if the flange is bent and you swage the new drum on the bent flange, which takes about 25 tons of pressure per stud-- guess what-- the drum will be bent also. This can cause all kinds of future problems. After swaging all the studs the drum and hub must the trued with a brake drum lathe. The drums are never perfectly round so must be trued before fitting the brake shoes. A brake job is more than just replacing the shoe linings. Doing a complete brake job is very time consuming but if done right will stop the car just like when it was new. Matter a fact if done right original brakes are better than hydraulic brakes and you don't have to cut and weld a good frame along with other modifications that usually screw up something else. Just my experience after doing over a hundred brake jobs.

I couldn't have said it better! Same here as I am known for doing good brake work it is all a process. You can't shortcut it, and all the checks and work over and restoration of all parts or replacement ( and fit ) has to be done. When you're cooking at it a comprehensive brake job is at least 30 hours and most of the time 40 by the time you do everything.

Every word Arlyn said on the drums must be done. You can use some cut spacer washers to allow for the shoulder length and a lug nut reversed to hold and pull the hub tight to the drum for swedging, removing one at a time in the press to swedge the one you are doing. Of course it has to be supported on a proper fixture. None of this is easy and it has to be done right or you are going to toast expensive drums and get things out of true.

After a comphrensive rebuild and adjustment the Model a Brakes are way better than hydraulics and will stop on a dime with a screach if need be.

Randy is excellent for doing drums or find someone Model A Schooled in your area who can do this for you.

Larry Shepard

Railcarmover · 09-09-2017, 10:53 AM

Cut the threaded sections off a pipe nipple to have 3" of schedule 40 tubing,the threads reduce the strength of the tube in compression. Swedging isn't rocket science,neither is checking hubs and drums for true...the axle is a good a reference as any lathe for checking a hub face or drum.

09-08-2017, 08:57 AM	#2
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Removing Hub Bolts, This May Help Not for swedging, might be ok for knocking out the stud. While some may have used a press with less the 20 tons, a 20 tons or more press should be used, that pipe is not made for that kind of use. You need a solid piece under the head of the bolt. After the studs and drums are removed you still need to check to see that the flange is flat and square to the axle before the new drums are installed. Often the face the drums fit to will need a clean up cut. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

09-08-2017, 06:43 PM	#3
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Removing Hub Bolts, This May Help I think there is more to swedging than just a support under the head. The drum and hub should be held tightly together, the whole thing supported, then put under the press for swedging. It is about the most often messed up job on a Model A. My suggestion is Talk to Randy Gross and buy a set from him already done. You won't be disappointed. For the sake of saving a few $, you are likely to end up spending more than you stand to save and still not have anything you will be happy with. Randy might chime in on this one. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

09-08-2017, 07:43 PM	#4
Arlyn Bieber Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 180	Re: Removing Hub Bolts, This May Help It has been my experience the flange on the hub is almost always bent. You must put the hub in a metal lathe and take a cut on the flange to true it. Think about it, if the flange is bent and you swage the new drum on the bent flange, which takes about 25 tons of pressure per stud-- guess what-- the drum will be bent also. This can cause all kinds of future problems. After swaging all the studs the drum and hub must the trued with a brake drum lathe. The drums are never perfectly round so must be trued before fitting the brake shoes. A brake job is more than just replacing the shoe linings. Doing a complete brake job is very time consuming but if done right will stop the car just like when it was new. Matter a fact if done right original brakes are better than hydraulic brakes and you don't have to cut and weld a good frame along with other modifications that usually screw up something else. Just my experience after doing over a hundred brake jobs.

09-09-2017, 09:44 AM	#5
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Removing Hub Bolts, This May Help After we check the flange for true we pre assemble the drum to hub. Using the studs, we place a couple of washers, the bottom one being large enough to clear where the shoulder of the stud that sticks thru the drum. (the first one needs the edge ground to clear the raised part of hub that sticks up so everything sits flat) 2nd one the diameter of the threads and pull everything up tight. Tom made a collier that the assembly sit on, that supports the whole thing for swedging. __________________ I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!

09-09-2017, 10:53 AM	#7
Railcarmover BANNED Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,262	Re: Removing Hub Bolts, This May Help Cut the threaded sections off a pipe nipple to have 3" of schedule 40 tubing,the threads reduce the strength of the tube in compression. Swedging isn't rocket science,neither is checking hubs and drums for true...the axle is a good a reference as any lathe for checking a hub face or drum.