Dayum.. Just found a pan rail crack.

[Mart]

I bought a 59A flathead a few years ago and have just been cleaning it up to get it back into running condition so I can put it in my 33 as a freshened up stocker. I have fitted it with a full set of French valves, including the adjustable lifters and removed, cleaned and refitted the pistons and rings. The bearings have been inspected and are good. I was just cleaning up the sump face so I could refit the pan and lo and behold there is a crack about 2" long. It does not appear to extend anywhere beyond what I can see, and I can't find any more. The 33 runs a non pressurised system and my current thoughts are to lightly V it, epoxy it and carry on. It only has to hold the water, right?, and that is not pressurised.

I am annoyed, though. I do have one more block, but that is slated for a big overbore and a 4" crank, so I don't want to have to use that one yet.

I havn't sunk a lot of money into the one with the crack, so it is worth giving it a go, if it doesn't work, I can pull it and look at getting it pinned or welded.

Mart.

[deuce_roadster]

Crack detection is always step 1 before spending ANY time or money. Sorry it turned out that way. I believe those pan rail cracks are usually caused by freezing so there could be others you cannot see. Good luck, I hope the epoxy solves your problem.

[BILL WZOREK]

> Anyone <

Is it possable to pressure check the block at the point he is now???

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Mart, is it just cracked on top of the pan rail where the gasket goes, or does it go down on the inside some. I hade one awhile ago that had crack about 3in. long right where the gasket went. I maged it and it didn't go down inside or outside. I drilled a 1/8 hole at each end of the crack and V out the crack a little and filled it with JB weld. That's usually caused by a freeze up crack. I don't believe it will ever leak. Walt

[Mart]

As far as I can tell, it is just on the face. Further back on the block on the wide part near where the oil pump bolts on, there is a distinct bulge, probably more frost damage that did not quite result in a crack.

I just bought some cast iron arc welding rods off of that there e-bay. At least I'll have the option to Vee the crack out and cold weld it.

It's about time I cranked the old arc welder up, it's been years since I last used it.

In for a penny, in for a pound!

Mart.

[Russ/40]

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Mart, if you go the welding route, please take a photo series so we can see how and what you did.

[rotorwrench]

If structure isn't a problem, you might be OK to braze it.

[NealinCA]

The block in my RPU was cracked under the gasket just like you describe . We V'd and epoxied it and have had no problems, and I was running a pressure cap. I might have drilled the ends of the crack, I can't remember.

I'd run it.

Neal

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by Mart

As far as I can tell, it is just on the face. Further back on the block on the wide part near where the oil pump bolts on, there is a distinct bulge, probably more frost damage that did not quite result in a crack.

I just bought some cast iron arc welding rods off of that there e-bay. At least I'll have the option to Vee the crack out and cold weld it.

It's about time I cranked the old arc welder up, it's been years since I last used it.

In for a penny, in for a pound!

Mart.

If you try to arc weld it with cast iron rod you'll wish you hatened. To do that you should heat the block to 1300 degrees. The JB weld will work fine. Walt

[Fe26]

Give the Cast Iron rods a go, if they are the modern type you won't need to preheat the block, but I would reccomend you drill a hole at each end of the crack to prevent the crack developing further. One other thing I do when weld Cast Iron is I use a grinder to make the vee preparation, then I use a small Cold Chisel and chip away the ground surface to expose the course grain of the iron, this enables a better 'key' between the nickel rod and the metal

Good luck.

[Vergil]

This won't help with your crack but I found interesting, a 1939 patent for engine block crack repairs. You can click on one of the pictures and a window will pop up with the picture, at the top click on original image and it can be zoomed in on.

Vergil

https://www.google.com/patents/US226...ed=0CD8Q6AEwAQ

[J and M Machine]

Originally Posted by Mart

I bought a 59A flathead a few years ago and have just been cleaning it up to get it back into running condition so I can put it in my 33 as a freshened up stocker. I have fitted it with a full set of French valves, including the adjustable lifters and removed, cleaned and refitted the pistons and rings. The bearings have been inspected and are good. I was just cleaning up the sump face so I could refit the pan and lo and behold there is a crack about 2" long. It does not appear to extend anywhere beyond what I can see, and I can't find any more. The 33 runs a non pressurised system and my current thoughts are to lightly V it, epoxy it and carry on. It only has to hold the water, right?, and that is not pressurised.

I am annoyed, though. I do have one more block, but that is slated for a big overbore and a 4" crank, so I don't want to have to use that one yet.

I havn't sunk a lot of money into the one with the crack, so it is worth giving it a go, if it doesn't work, I can pull it and look at getting it pinned or welded.

Mart.

Don't weld it if you're not familiar with Cast Iron Welding. The proper way is in an oven and long heat and cooling cycles. not with a bench top welder.!

Best/permanent way to fix it is through metal stitching.

The first picture of the Model A Ford Block "welded" rendered useless by the amount of heat and amount of repair couldn't fix because cast iron is now glass and cracked all the way round repaired area.

Second pictrure of a fire truck cylinder head was brazed by a "certified welder'' and the braze peeled off like bubble gum also cracked on either side of the braze. Repaired by metal stitching; cutting pieces,then fit and stitched in place to make a seamless repair.

[Ken/Alabama]

I'm with Walt on this one. I have repaired two blocks with cracks in the pan rail and used JB Weld . Both of those engines have been running for several years now without a problem.

[wga]

Repaired a block with Devcon http://www.devcon.com/products/produ...m?familyid=101

Ford has a product they sell for use on their diesel engines to repair cracks.

JB Weld on a GM block that went for thousands of miles after a repair.

So pick your poison, be sure the area is squeaky clean. Lacquer thinner, etc.

[Henry Hopper]

I think Id go with the JB Weld as first option Mart, Ive heard it is good stuff......are the French valves and lifters the ones I gave you?good luck mate and post some progress results/ pics, to see how you got on.

[flatford8]

Welding cast iron is a real special operation. JB weld won't ruin it but welding it wrong absolutely will.....Mark

[Mart]

JB weld ordered. I watched a video on youtube for the cold weld method. I might practice welding on something else first, see how it goes. If not great, the JB weld will do it.

This is the video - I thought it was pretty good info.

http://youtu.be/Yopcz-IYDyQ

Thanks for all the advice.

Nige, they are my valves (I had 2 sets) and your lifters - my lifters went rusty due to a leaky roof.

Mart.

[Marv]

Originally Posted by Mart

As far as I can tell, it is just on the face. Further back on the block on the wide part near where the oil pump bolts on, there is a distinct bulge, probably more frost damage that did not quite result in a crack.

I just bought some cast iron arc welding rods off of that there e-bay. At least I'll have the option to Vee the crack out and cold weld it.

It's about time I cranked the old arc welder up, it's been years since I last used it.

In for a penny, in for a pound!

Mart.

If i were going to weld it, which i would, use only nickle 99 rod not over 1/8 ". Preheat the area with a rose bud , to 400* using a temperature crayon to check the temperature that you can buy at most welding supply stores. Grind the crack out about 3/8" past the crack and weld a pass left to right let cool to 400* and weld right to left and use a needle scaler, between welds to stress releive it and it should not crack.

[Mart]

I took some pics of the motor, we all love pics of flatheads, right? Now, I know it's not the prettiest, but I bought it like this, and I just want to see how it runs, right? What I can see, is that I need to do a lot more cleaning before buttoning it up.

Overall pic of the motor from the top. Deck isn't great, bores are linered and bored to +.030". Pistons are old, rings look new.

Whoever fitted the liners sort of goofed, the bores have a big chamfer on the top, making the use of big bore gaskets necessary.


The valves were pretty well worn, so I kitted it out with a set of French valves. I had two sets, so picked the best ones.
Inlets and exhausts have differnet part numbers and markings.


The French valves are shorter than USA ones, and are rotator type, the springs are short, the lifters are longer to compensate. the lifters are nice, you can hold them with a slim 1/2" spanner while adjusting them.


Bottom end looks ok, the crank is pretty clean, bearings look new.The crack in the rail can be seen in this pic.


And a closer view of the crack. I took close up pics of the insides of the rails and I can't see any other cracks.


I'll let you all know how the repair goes.

Mart.

[alan]

show us a picture of the"buldge" in the pan rail to add to the knowledge on the board