COOLING~How Much Water Is Needed?

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The 'A' cooling system holds three U.S. Gallons.
If you can not cool it with two and a half U.S. Gallons, your not going to cool it with three U.S. Gallons.

Some common sense needs to be injected here. The cooling system is a 3 gallon affair. No more than 2-1/2 gallons is needed to circulate around to cool the engine if the radiator is free flowing and grease free and has tight fins to tube contact. Were talking a 1930 unit. Were talking mine. I did make a water dip stick for peace of mind. Hot or cold I know where my level is. I don't use a restricting thermostat and I don't overheat if the timing is right. That's a whole nother ball of wax.

Any more water than 2-1/2 gallons up to engine temperature in this non pressurized system tends to puke out the overflow tube or out the top of the radiator. And an overflow bottle does little good and has generally been not needed for 80 plus years, millions of 'A's and billions of miles. But I could be wrong.

skip.

[Aerocraft]

Skip, I agree. All four of the A's I have on the road, two '29s, a '30, and a '31 will dump at least a quart and a half on first run if I put the three gallons in when filling the system from empty. I might as well just pour nearly two quarts on the ground. The coolant exits via the overflow tube since all the caps are well sealed. It has been my experience that two and a half gallons is enough. All four will run at slightly different levels. All of them run at cruise without overheating, even in mid-90s temperatures. Gar Williams

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

BUT, ....how many fan blades are you guys using on your cooling fan?

If 2½ gallons are all that will be used, then a 4-bladed steel fan must be used HOWEVER if you use a 6 blade plastic fan, you can use 1½ gallons of water, ........A N D, if you use one of the 8-bladed, aluminum hubbed, serpentine belt driven fans on a triple ball bearing enclosed shaft water pump, then "all the guys" swear that you only need ONE gallon of water in the entire cooling system to properly cool the engine.

Then the debate over using the set-up with 1 gallon of water comes that some feel you need to run a 180° thermostat to allow the engine to even come up to correct operating temperatures as outlined in the Service Bulletins.

.

[skip]

Great Humbug dissertation. Reminds me wild hickory nuts. When finely ground up these offer a green solution to run-of-the-mill coolant sealants. Grins. skip.

Yes roccaas, most of the steamed water misses me 'cept when the windscreen is down or pulled out at the bottom of the frame. 'Like bugs in the teeth, a happy moment'. I use copious amounts of Rain-X as a preventive to spots before me eyes. And I squint a lot.

[roccaas]

Mine tends to spit up what she doesn't want/need.

Grins, skips out of the way of arc of coolant, washes spots off windshield, rolls on down the road.

[Old182]

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I'm with Skip & Gar (FWIW!). With all due respect to Brent, in 1930 everyone knew how to grease a water pump, file and change points, time the engine and change a flat tire. They did it routinely and I'll bet they also knew just how much cardboard to put in front of the radiator in the winter so the engine would warm up but not over heat. We can take advantage of the hundreds of improvements that have been made over the years and we can incorporate some into our cars. Safety items notwithstanding, at what point does a Model A cease to be a Model A? After the electronic ignition? Pressurized mains? Pressurized cooling system? Juice brakes? Sychro tranny? I guess I'm just naturally dense, but I kind of enjoy the inconveniences of owning and driving my car with most of its 1930 technology still in place. When the Model A was designed and built, thermostats had been in use for almost 15 years (1914 Cadillac was first), and the Model A was a revolutionary car for its day. I believe Henry would have put one in if he thought it was necessary, but he didn't. My bet (without doing the heat transfer calculations - paaleeze!) is that our non-pressurized, 3-gallon-minus-the-puked-overfill is an overdesigned system that just keeps on working as it should provided the proper parts are used. My fingers are croxxed as I writhe thiss, but my 2-blade fan, 50/50 mix, non-pressurized, non-thermostated engine is getting through this exceptionally hot summer much better than I am!

[Aerocraft]

Sorry Brent, but all my cars have the modified (reinforced per the research and blueprints of an Aeronautical Engineer as published in The Restorer a few years ago) original fan and they stay cool with approximately 2 1/2 to 2 5/8 gallons of 50-50 coolant. Wednesday afternoon a buddy checked my 40B (with an original radiator) using a heat sensor after a run through traffic and it read 179 degrees with 92 degrees OAT. Gar Williams

[marc hildebrant]

If the books are to be believed.......

The model A's combination of thermosiphon and pump meant that the engine had a type of heat control built in. Namely that the pump and the impeller blades were weak enough to "need" the thermosiphon effect to work. What that meant was that until the water got hot enough to rise up on it's own, the water pretty much "stayed" put thus letting the engine quickly get up to temp.

Once at temp, the thermosiphon flow and the pump now kept the water flowing to the radiator fast enough to keep it cool.

The design of the cooling system with it's baffles and impeller size was clearly an attempt to control the water temp. Quick temp rise then cooling.

What I do not know, is if the termostat in the upper hose improves on the original engine designers method.

By the way, when I lived in Minnesota, cardboard was needed below about 0 degrees by all cars. Below -30 things got really interesting...

Marc

[Old182]

Good info, Marc. I do believe Mr. Ford would have included a thermostat in his new car if the engineers felt it was needed. Your post makes sense. On a visit to Duluth in my USAF days, I found the secret to staying warm in Minnesota: Having 110v plugs hanging out of every window and doorway to plug into your car's cooling system! I heard the summers are great there if you can get that weekend off.

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by roccaas

Mine tends to spit up what she doesn't want/need.

Grins, skips out of the way of arc of coolant, washes spots off windshield, rolls on down the road.
__________________
Tango Whiskey Hotel Golf

Shouldn't that be "Tango Hotel Whiskey Golf"?

Think about it.

Jim

[marc hildebrant]

Old182,

Yes, the summers are not that long in Minnesota. But, they are long enough for a fair growing season.

Now, the winters are another story.....

Marc