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Old 06-01-2020, 02:06 PM   #21
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

You would need a real good drill , it's pretty hard,and it's real tough steel
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:10 PM   #22
john charlton
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Hi Bay Arian I will check to see what I have here in England as I am closer than USA so postage should be cheaper . Can you get a good used axle in Germany or are you going to buy a new one from a German supplier ?

John in Suffolk County England .
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Good morning John,


I've bought new axles for 500 bucks each here in Germany. I could still return them if you had a cheaper alternative, but I guess that usable axles are at leat 300 bucks in England, so it wouldn't make much of a difference, right?
Have a nice day,


Daniel
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Old 06-02-2020, 12:15 AM   #24
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Hello guys,

using a spindle press at work I was able to get the diff carrier off the axle shaft. I've attached pictures of the diff carrier.

There is excessive wear at the bearing surface of axle and carrier, it seems like some metal from the carrier has welded itself onto the outer part of the axle's bearing surface which caused the axle to tilt when it reached the area of the bearing that still has roughly original diameter.

No wonder it refused to come out!



If I had to guess, I'd say that someon in the past used that car as a stationary engine with one wheel up and that caused the problem, just like it was posted before. The right axle probably got replaced in the past, because it's in MUCH better shape.




The question is what to do now, as far as I see it there are basically 2 options:

1) Get a new diff carrier and just replace it, including a new setup of the entire rear end.

2) Machine the bearing surface of the diff so that it's smooth and use the same carrier again.


If I machine the carrier, I won't have a nice fit of carrier and axle anymore. The question is if it's even needed under normal driving conditions because the force as well as the rotational speed of the axle inside the diff carrier should be quite low as the axle only rotates in the carrier if the car is going through a corner.

So it either rotates very slow with medium load (driving through a corner at higher speed) or it rotates a bit faster with low load (when turning). Correct?


In case that this is not an option and the carrier is not usable anymore, I will have to get an entire new carrier and set up the diff again. I'd like to avoid that if possible, but if I ruin the new axle when doing that I'll have to swallow it and go that route.
So, what would you do?
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File Type: jpg carrier1.JPG (162.8 KB, 84 views)
File Type: jpg carrier2.JPG (179.4 KB, 87 views)
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Old 06-02-2020, 04:18 AM   #25
john charlton
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Hi Daniel .You cannot repair the carrier you have it would cause the spider gears to be misaligned to the axle gear which will damage the axle . The carrier halves are not "matched" like the ring and pinion gear and are listed separately in the English Ford Parts list (July 1st 1931) so you just need A-4205-B which is the left gear case . Luckily I do have one here in good condition it came out of an axle where the other side the roller bearing area was damaged and not worth fixing . The area where the spider gear run are slightly worn so when matched with your right side there could be a slight "step" where the outside of the spider gear rubs but they will soon lap in so I dont think this would be a problem . My son will post a pic of what I have .I do not have a spare complete carrier as I still have 4 more axles to build for future projects if I live long enough !!! 81 years old on Saturday . Use your new axles I do have good used but no guarantee of course and I would have to ship mine to you anyway . Let me know if you want this left carrier .

John in sunny Suffolk County England .

Last edited by john charlton; 06-02-2020 at 07:20 AM.
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Old 06-02-2020, 04:26 AM   #26
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier





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Old 06-02-2020, 04:36 AM   #27
john charlton
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

This is the carrier I have if you pay the postage it is yours for free PM me your address if you are interested .Do you do Pay Pal ?

John
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:26 AM   #28
bavArian
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Hello John,

yes, that's exactly the one I need, A-4205-B. Seems like yours is a later revision? It has 2 additional holes from the inside to the outside, probably for improved lubrication.
I've sent you a PM.
Thanks,

Daniel
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Old 06-02-2020, 05:50 AM   #29
john charlton
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Yes better lubrication I have your PM .

John
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:43 AM   #30
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Another question:

Les' book says to disassemble the diff and check bearing clearance without the axles and spider. Is there any specific reason for that?
I think that it wouldn't really matter and he just did it that way because the diff is easier to handle without the axles?
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Old 06-03-2020, 06:21 AM   #31
john charlton
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

The Les book is correct . This is the way I do it . I put the diff carrier in the complete axle setup with no axles or spider fitted the ring gear is fitted tightly to the carrier . The torque tube is not fitted You assemble the axle housings to the centre member using all the bolts . As you tighten the bolts reach through the torque tube hole and keep a check on how easy it is to rotate the ring gear . If it gets tight before all bolts are tightened then take it apart and put a paper shim each side and do it again . When all centre member bolts are tight see how easy it is to rotate the ring gear with you fingers . If it spins easily and maybe you can move it slightly latterally then take a shim out each side .This is a time consuming process . If it is set correctly when you rotate the ring gear there should be a slight drag should be 16" pounds on the ring gear but it is abit of a fiddle to set this up I just do it by feel .If they are new bearings I set a bit more drag than used bearings . The banjo bolts MUST be tight when you do this . Now the carrier preload is set do not remove or fit more shims or you will upset the preload . Next comes the fun bit you have to set the pinion backlash . Take everything apart and fit the axles and spider gears and fit the torque tube with the drive shaft and pinion . Do not get the shims muddled up remember no addtions or subtractions . Les will tell you what to do next it is a procedure of moving shims from side to side which effectively increases lash or reduces it . The total count of shims MUST remain the same . Why the axles are removed on the first step is that you cannot judge the preload with the drag from the axle seals .I most likely have left something out but I am sure someone will point this out as there are many out there who have built many more axles than I have !!!

John in same place same weather Suffolk County England .
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Old 06-03-2020, 07:44 AM   #32
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

The above assumes the pinion bearing has correct preload .Knew I would forget something !!!

John
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Old 06-11-2020, 08:24 AM   #33
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Update:

My bad luck seems to continue. The diff-carrier John sent me has 2 differences to the old one:


A) The raised parts on the flange that center the two halves are missing.

B) The outer diameter of the carrier where the ring gear slides on is significantly smaller than that of the old part. On the old carrier, measurement (a) is roughly 104.9 mm / 4.125", the new carrier only has 98.3 mm / 3-7/8". So there's a big gap between ring gear and diff carrier.


Difference A shouldn't be a big problem because centering the two halves with the spider should work.Difference B on the other hand IS a problem. The ring gear can't be centered, which I assume is necessary for it to work for more than 50 miles. Were there two different ring-gear IDs? The parts are both marked as A-4205-B.


I've turned down the bearing surface of the old carrier half to be able to insert the new axle. (pic attached)
There is some play between axle and carrier, I'd say around twice as much as with the other, not worn carrier half and that same new axle.

I'm hesitating to use the old carrier with the new axle though because I fear that the old carrier will damage the axle surface.


So my only real option is to get a matching diff carrier with the proper outer diameter for the ring gear, correct?
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File Type: jpg old carrier half.jpg (205.9 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg new carrier half.jpg (195.8 KB, 23 views)
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Old 06-11-2020, 11:54 AM   #34
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Les's book is great, one thing I would change is when checking the brg pre-load, Les says to tighten all side bolts without gaskets. DO NOT DO THIS! I do everything with the axles in a vertical position. 1) Bolt the right side housing to the center section, with no gaskets, I just use 4 bolts. 2) Gently set the left side on. 3) Using 3 or 4 feeler gauges arranged around the housings, to hold the L. housing up off the brg., then slowly lower the housing by selecting smaller feeler's until drag is felt. 4) Using 3 or 4 bolts, snug the housing down until proper drag is felt. 5) Keeping track of the total number of shims, then adjust the backlash as John says. 6) On final assembly the shim thickness on each side must equal the total gaskets used, some on each side. Doing as Les says can distort the side housings, and result in oil leaks and improper pre-load on the carrier brgs. Les is a friend of mine, and we have agreed to disagree on this matter. I'm surprised John's carrier is different than yours, must be English measurements! Good luck!
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Old 06-11-2020, 12:54 PM   #35
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

I'm just as surprised about the different OD. Either someone turned it down for whatever reaseon (ring gear from a different model??) or the english cars really had different ring gears for some reason. Haven't found any trace of ring gears with a smaller inner diameter than 4.125" yet.


Using a feeler gauge seems like a good idea, we have a fine one for setting valve clearances so I'll try it out.
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Old 06-11-2020, 01:18 PM   #36
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Can you turn a little ring for between the carrier and the gear? Or a few little spots of weld then turn to the correct diameter. Wouldn't need to weld all around, just a few places to center the gear.
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Old 06-11-2020, 01:24 PM   #37
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Unfortunately not as my turning machine isn't big enough for that. (it's mainly for scale models, not for cars or machinery)
And having a ring machined probably isn't much cheaper than ordering a used diff carrier.
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Old 06-11-2020, 04:01 PM   #38
john charlton
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

The part I sent you had the correct part number on it so I assumed it was correct . My mistake I should have tried a ring gear on it before I went to the post office !!! So your good part is the same as the part I sent you I suppose . Just confirm you need the side which takes the ring gear and has male "pegs" I will mail you another one if that is the case no postage charge !!! . Sorry about the delay my mistake .

John in Suffolk County England .
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Old 06-11-2020, 08:50 PM   #39
Tom Endy
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

The attached article may be of help identifying the correct carrier half. The later carriers had a different part number for each side. A4205 is the ring gear side. A4206 is the non ring gear side. The diameter on the A4206 carrier side is smaller that the inside diameter of the ring gear.

Tom Endy
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File Type: pdf The Differential Carrier.pdf (240.4 KB, 21 views)
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Old 06-12-2020, 03:28 AM   #40
john charlton
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Default Re: Can't separate axle shaft from carrier

Thank you Tom Sadly I did send the wrong side to Daniel .OOOOPS !!!. But in my defence it was marked A4205 and was not scalloped so visually it looked correct I did not pickup the fact the notches were female and the ring gear land area had been machined down to prevent a ring gear being fitted . It is a factory modification maybe Manchester ran out of A 4026 .It would be easy to do the change from male to female notches but not the other way around . I do have a spare B 4205 which I will send to Daniel no charge . I will take pics with a ring gear and axle in place . I hope I am right that the "B" axle carrier is the same as an "A" carrier to my eye they look identical .In my pic of the carrier I sent you can see where where the ring gear land has been machined down .

John in rainy dull Suffolk County England .
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