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Old 11-02-2018, 03:08 PM   #1
The Master Cylinder
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Default Model A Timing Advance System

I was perusing thru Snyder's catalog the other day and noticed this Nu-Rex Model A Timing Advance System. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/t...ce-system-3903
I know Nu-Rex makes a lot of items but I never remember seeing this before. Does anyone on The Barn have any experience with this advance system? Good, Bad or Ugly?
Thanks
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

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Originally Posted by The Master Cylinder View Post
I was perusing thru Snyder's catalog the other day and noticed this Nu-Rex Model A Timing Advance System. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/t...ce-system-3903
I know Nu-Rex makes a lot of items but I never remember seeing this before. Does anyone on The Barn have any experience with this advance system? Good, Bad or Ugly?
Thanks
I to have looked at it . My impression was it is not needed. Apart form starting and sometimes on steep hills I don't touch the advance and retard lever. -Karl
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

I have been wrong once or twice before. I believe that automatic advance (and retard) is the only optimum way to set the timing for all engine speeds. The how it sounds and feels is too inaccurate.


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Old 11-02-2018, 06:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

I have one of those sitting on a shelf in my workshop. It came out of a car we were reconditioning the engine in but someone had diddled with it and it retarded when it should have advanced. I spoke with the guys at Nurex and they set it right at no charge. Can't complain about that! I haven't used it since.
I don't know how the owner of that car could drive it with the ignition so far out. Maybe it contributed to the fact that the engine was shot??
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Old 11-02-2018, 08:51 PM   #5
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

I have a version of the device whereof we speak originally made by NuRex. It's the deal that goes in the valve chamber INTO WHICH PARTS SETTLE IF AND WHEN THE DISTRIBUTOR NEEDS TO BE REMOVED FOR SOME REASON, WHICH WOULDN'T BE SO BAD IF THERE WEREN'T AN OIL FILTER MOUNTED ON THE VALVE COVER WHICH HAS TO BE REMOVED TO REASSEMBLE THINGS. [I challenge anyone to diagram that sentence.]
Because the Model A is so forgiving, it's hard to quantitate but it seems to work well. I've set mine up with engine timed at 3 clicks on the spark adjust from top, so I've got some wiggle room in case it starts to knock -like, slow speed pulling hills- indicating need for bit of retard needed temporarily.
Generally, the manual spark advance is obviated, which makes it easier to imagine teaching my wife to drive the car.
If you're going to be messing with your distributor very much, I would look into centrifugal advance built into distributor.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

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Why not just use a Model B distributor ??
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

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Why not just use a Model B distributor ??
Good idea - if you can get one! I had one that I intended to use but someone else wanted one and they had been looking for a long while. I gave it to him and I'll use something else.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

I have about 5 restored ones here, stock points & condensers for them ,
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:43 AM   #9
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

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...... I believe that automatic advance (and retard) is the only optimum way to set the timing for all engine speeds. The how it sounds and feels is too inaccurate....
. But what sort of auto advance are you advising????? ..... if you're aiming for true optimum at all times you need to factor in fuel quaility, temperature, mixture, and load as well , not just revs. For a stock Ford A manual control is as good as is needed and is part of the driving fun experience.
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Old 11-03-2018, 06:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

I have one in each of my A's. Works great. Wouldn't be without one!!
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Old 11-03-2018, 08:39 AM   #11
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

My Honda distributor is working a treat, and not only has the mechanical advance, but also has vacuum advance. This matches advance to load and rpms much more closely.
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Old 11-03-2018, 03:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

Corley has the right answer
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Old 11-03-2018, 03:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

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I have been wrong once or twice before. I believe that automatic advance (and retard) is the only optimum way to set the timing for all engine speeds. The how it sounds and feels is too inaccurate.


John
I'm certainly a member of the being wrong club ( according to my wife frequently) as well . I suspect you are right that you get optimum performance by variable timing of an engine . However the issue is does it really make a big difference in the Model A engine. We are playing with only 40 hp so even if it gives you an extra 10% that is only 4 hp.

Anecdotally before I brought the 34 I did about 10000 miles per year in my stock 1930 Phaeton and various other stock Model A's On trips I would cruise at 50-55 mph for hours on end with no problems -would slow down to drive through towns and even stop at lights without ever touching the advance and retard lever -all seemed good .

Yes Derek I could put a Model B dizzy in -but I would miss my lovely copper connectors to the plugs LOL

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Old 11-03-2018, 09:28 PM   #14
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

Karl Hi , no you can still have your copper or brass connecters as stock A body fits ? With many folk running the hi comp heads (20 %) gain then advance -retard is more important, Honda dissy better if running weber carb, so im told , But more important is the wooden cloths pegs on the fuel line ??? Derek
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:13 AM   #15
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

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I suspect you are right that you get optimum performance by variable timing of an engine . However the issue is does it really make a big difference in the Model A engine. We are playing with only 40 hp so even if it gives you an extra 10% that is only 4 hp.
Karl
Probably doesn't make much difference in performance - I'm thinking more in terms of engine health. That being said, with such low compression maybe engine health isn't an issue with inaccurate timing.


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Old 11-04-2018, 11:39 AM   #16
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

I prefer the original manual advance for my driving use . I prefer the Mallory dual point distributor for my girls use or for hotter spark . People that don't know when the engine is lugging would be better off with an automatic advance distributor . For my use , the model B distributors usually advance too slowly for optimum performance .
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Old 11-04-2018, 03:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

FWIW--a puzzle

FOr about 11 years now, whenever I am out with a group of MOdel A's from our club and we stop for gas, my car has ALWAYS taken 1 to 3 gallons less to fill up than the others. Even on long trips, like from MI to VA and back. So, it's not due to cheating at the fillups; you could get away with shorting a fill-up once or twice, but not every time. On the VA trip, all four of our cars had F-150 overdrives. One other had a high compression head. That one was closer to me in mileage, but still I beat it--every time! On our latest Michigan Model A roundup, a friend checked with me how much I had just put in to fillup on the way home. I told him 6.0 gallons;he had taken (as I recall) 8.7 gal. AND upon further discussion, it turned out I had last filled up THE DAY BEFORE while on an excursion about 10 miles from the motel; he had filled up that morning just before we left!

This is a great puzzle to all involved. My car is a 29 Town Sedan (NOT light). Standard wheels and tires, until recently switched to 19" radials. It's not the carb; same results with two diffferent carbs. Two possibilities, neither of which seem likely, but there we are. (1) Pertronix ignition, (2) built in spark advance. Brumfield 5.9 head but at least one other club member has the same and several have the Snyders 5.5.

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Old 11-04-2018, 06:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

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Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft View Post
I prefer the original manual advance for my driving use . I prefer the Mallory dual point distributor for my girls use or for hotter spark . People that don't know when the engine is lugging would be better off with an automatic advance distributor . For my use , the model B distributors usually advance too slowly for optimum performance .

For me, with my model B engine with dual downdrafts, the model B distributor always lacked something. The car would run just fine at say 30 mph, but higher than that, it would ALWAYS overheat. I checked with a timing light and the advance never went over 18* to 20*. I then modified the Honda distributor as described in an earlier thread and now the car runs as I expected it should. Of course, it could also be that my model B distributors were worn out, but the Honda does just fine.


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Old 11-05-2018, 12:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

Can someone give some more specifics on the Honda distributor? What years and makes was it on and how do you retrofit.
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Old 11-05-2018, 02:09 PM   #20
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Default Re: Model A Timing Advance System

I'd like to see that information also.
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