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08-18-2014, 11:43 PM | #1 |
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? Chevy 283 pistons
Any opinions out there regarding pros and cons of using chevy 283 pistons in a Model B engine. I am in the throws of rebuilding my B engine after spinning a rod last week. Considering using Rich Faluca's inserted rods with chevy pistons. Need some advise from the audience
Thanks Rick Jensen |
08-19-2014, 08:21 AM | #2 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
Rich does a good job.
283 style pistons are the way to go: short skirts, thinner rings, less piston-cyl friction, less reciprocating mass. Overall benefits of modern technology. When all said and one pour in some Valvoline VR-1 racing oil 30-wt. It is about the only thing left out there with zinc still. Give serious consideration to the oil filter on the valve cover: why have a motor full of grit, especially on a fresh build? Be nice to your bearings and they will be nice to you
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08-19-2014, 08:50 AM | #3 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
We have them installed in a couple of our A's. A few thousand miles and no trouble yet.
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08-19-2014, 10:09 AM | #4 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
i believe all new oils have zinc, just in lesser amounts than a few years ago. A's didn't get zinc when they were new, and don' need as much as new cars do because they have a steel cam and little valve spring pressure. i ran 283 pistons in my 4-port riley years ago with good results.
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08-19-2014, 10:52 AM | #5 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
Rick, have you spoken with Rich regarding this? If not, ask him about his new pistons that he is making.
Personally, I see the extra weight of the Chev. pistons over the Model-A/B pistons as more of a detriment than I see the less friction of the Chev. piston rings being a benefit. |
08-19-2014, 11:34 AM | #6 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
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And to Jim, Good to hear from you and hope that you make a full recovery. As always I appreciate your advice. I'll share your response with Roger Gash also. Thanks Again Rick Jensen |
08-19-2014, 12:33 PM | #7 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
I haven't used 283 pistons in any of my engines. They have some good points. On the other hand, it seems that the valve reliefs in the tops of the283 pistons would lose some compression by adding CCs to the combustion chambers.
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08-19-2014, 01:02 PM | #8 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
I have used them a few times, in fact they are in my 28 Sport Coupe. They work very well. You will have a little longer rod length, modern piston design and narrow rings which is a big plus.
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08-19-2014, 01:18 PM | #9 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
A friend used Egge pistons in his '30 A, How are these different than the 283 pistons. They use the narrow rings also.
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08-19-2014, 02:04 PM | #10 | |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
Quote:
I just put a set of Egge pistons, with modern/narrow rings .0125. Haven't run the short block yet, but expect quick ring seating/sealing as a plus. When ordered, Egge said that I could have rings like thick original or modern thin style. They , IMO, try to please customer. |
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08-19-2014, 02:11 PM | #11 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
Too heavy for me.
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08-19-2014, 02:17 PM | #12 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
I think sometimes we get hung-up on the word "better". When is better really 'better'?
Using an analogy of a Peterbilt road-tractor, it is made to tow trailers, therefore it must be "better" at pulling a small lawnmower trailer simply 'because' of perception! Arguments can be made all day that the Peterbilt has a bigger engine than a pick-up truck, therefore it is easier to pull that 500 pound trailer. Another argument is a Peterbilt has 10 tires whereas the Pick-up only has 4 tires, ...therefore there is better traction for stopping & starting. The Peterbilt is bigger in size so therefore it must be safer in traffic. Yes, these are all truthful arguments someone could make however for the purpose of towing a 500 lb lawnmower trailer, is it really 'better'?? I see this as the same argument between is the Chevrolet pistons "better" than the reproduction Silvolite manufactured Model-A piston? I do agree the Chevrolet pistons are cheaper than the Silvolite pistons however who is seeing that benefit? Some might argue that a modern Hypereutectic alloy piston is modern engineering, --and yes it may be, but just like the Pete vs. a ½-ton pick-up) is it better in our application on a stock Model-A? Yes, the narrower rings cause less parasitic drag, ...but how much horsepower are we gaining with the modern rings --maybe ¼ horsepower?? Like Purdy mentioned, there will be a slight increase in chamber volume but will the Hp loss from this lower compression be detectable? Carl, I said all of that to say this; the Egge pistons are lighter than the Model-A and the Chevrolet piston by about 100 grams so there is some advantage there, the Egge piston does not require a wrist pin modification nor a special connecting rod like the Chevrolet piston does, and it does utilize the thinner ring. The biggest downside to the Egge piston IMHO is the much greater expense. I think this will be where Rich's new piston will excel over the Egge piston, the Silvolite and the Chevrolet piston. Think this through for a moment and you will see why I do not agree the Chevrolet piston is better. Remember it is heavier than what the aftermarket Silvolite piston is!! Presently the Silvolite reproduction piston itself is nearly 90% HEAVIER than what Ford's pistons originally were!! The original pistons were spec-ed to be 319-323 grams in total weight whereas the Silvolite pistons will weigh-in just under 600 grams out of the box!! AND, this is without the pin which the Silvolite wrist pin will weight approximately 200 grams and Ford's spec was like 110 grams +/-. Again, remember the Chevrolet piston & pin is even heavier than the reproduction piston on the market now, and it puts that Chevy piston combination in at double the weight as what original pistons were. No wonder we complain about babbitt longevity and vibrations!! The less weight we are slinging around is much better than how much drag the rings are feeling in my view. . |
08-19-2014, 02:24 PM | #13 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
I have the Egge pistons with 283 rings in three of my engines, one of them being an "A" powered Pientenpol Aircamper. The narrow rings break in quickly and the oil stays cleaner. I prefer the Egge pistion over the Chevy pistons because of the larger pin and the "standard" location of the pin hole in the connecting rod.
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08-19-2014, 03:18 PM | #14 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
Narrower rings are better because they seal better, I do not think they got less drag. with the same tension on the rings you would have more pressure per square inch on narrow rings. 283 pistons are much better than a lot of junk pistons that I have seen in the past sold as replacement pistons. The new Synider's piston seem good, but would rather have a narrow ring.
I have used the egge pistons with the narrow rings, they worked fine. |
08-19-2014, 07:08 PM | #15 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
I use the egge pistons with the narrow rings and have over 10000 miles on the engine. Just got back from a 3200 mile trip to the mountains and never added any oil. JB
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08-19-2014, 09:46 PM | #16 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
283 style are available that will fit stock rods. this has been discussed before here. search it. why buy new rods?????
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08-20-2014, 07:17 AM | #17 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
Correct me if I am wrong but the pin location is wrong on the Chevrolet piston in comparison to the stock A/B location. I suppose you could still run it that way but at a loss of compression. I vaguely remember this topic coming up once before but I did not remember it was that easy. Would you be so kind as to search for us where this is covered and provide us some links? Thank you so much!
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08-20-2014, 09:32 AM | #18 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
Yep, has been discussed, and I have done several installs with super results and no new rods. Order them from John Cosper in Albuquerque NM. Pete's auto machine, ((five-zero-five)) 836-311 zero.
You are correct about a stock 283 piston, but John has them custom made. George Miller has used these also and has posted about them. A quick search should bring this up, as this was discussed recently. The pins are 1.000, and I have had to have the small end honed out about .002 ths in a couple cases, and in 2 other cases the small end was so sloppy (lots of sloppy 'rebuilders' out there) I had to have them re-bushed and then honed to fit. But this is still way cheaper than new rods! As with everything else, mic the pistons and the bores to see exactly what you have and we set them up at .0035, since 3&4 run 20-30 degrees hotter than 1&2. This has been discussed several times also but I know that you know that I do not know where Rich Falluca gets his from. Rich has a good rep around here as well as John. And John turns all of Rich's cranks.
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'31 180A Last edited by tbirdtbird; 08-20-2014 at 09:39 AM. |
08-20-2014, 09:46 AM | #19 | |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
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08-20-2014, 11:37 AM | #20 |
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Re: ? Chevy 283 pistons
Yes they are 283 styl. basically the same as 283 with a 1" pin in the right place. 283 pistons had .927 pin. Yes I have used a few and they work out fine.
For my own engines I use regular 283 pistons with new rods made for 283 pistons. I'm using inserts and want new rods any way. I use to rebore old Model A rods for inserts. But there is a lot of different rod weights out there. Plus a lot of the rods are bent twisted, studs over torqued, so on. I prefer new rods so why not go with better piston. I also have made a few sets of rods but no need to do that now. But if any one does not like 283 pistons, just do not use them. As far as weight they needed that because a 283 FI Vette had 293 HP and would turn 7,000 RPMS from the factory. True they do no need to be that heavy but I do not think it will hut at 2,000 rpms in a A motor. Yes the stroke on the vette is 3" and the A is 4.250 if you want to know the piston speed do the math. I could care less which pistons some uses. But if I was building there engine it would not be those light ones with slit all the way through the skirt. |
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