Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2021, 04:30 PM   #1
Charlie ny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,748
Default '36 rear end in my '32

How much do I shorten a '36 torque tube and drive shaft for use in my '32
p'up. The stock 4 cyl rear end won't take much more 286 cu in abuse.
I'm lazy on this one...just need the number.


Charlie ny
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2021, 04:55 PM   #2
cas3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sw minnesota
Posts: 2,828
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

The 35& up rears are 9 1/6" longer at the TT flange . measured from center line of axle tubes. Double check, but if you measure I believe thats what you will find
cas3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-20-2021, 04:57 PM   #3
cas3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sw minnesota
Posts: 2,828
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

So, the number would be, you're 32 tube length - 9 1/6"
cas3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2021, 06:01 PM   #4
DavidG
Senior Member
 
DavidG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,726
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

Have you thought about the disparity between '32 rear cross members/rear springs and those of '35s plus?
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2021, 06:19 PM   #5
bobH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: so cal, placerville, vegas
Posts: 1,221
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
Have you thought about the disparity between '32 rear cross members/rear springs and those of '35s plus?
Yes to David, and, it doen't make for a simple answer to Charlie's question. So, does Charlie want to modify the straight 36 spring (grind narrow), or modify the spring pocket on the 32 frame, and 'shine-on' any difference in wheelbase, or account for a correct wheelbase and make modifications to accomplish that? No simple answer on how much to shorten TT. I'd suggest some 'thinkin' needs to go into the answer. And, besides what I've mentioned, there are obviously other ways to do this.

(And, besides the 9/16 that cas3 has mentioned (which is correct), I'm pretty sure Charlie would have to account for whether he has the usual 'round' pinion flange rear end, or the later and rarer 'scalloped' pinion flange. I'm pretty sure they are different (?) with respect to TT length.)

Last edited by bobH; 06-20-2021 at 06:28 PM.
bobH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2021, 07:12 PM   #6
bobH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: so cal, placerville, vegas
Posts: 1,221
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Some suggestions.... And, still, no simple, easy answer to Charlie's question.
1. Measure from 32 axle center-line, to front tip of 32 TT bell. Make the 36 the same. This will keep the wheelbase the same, and the spring pocket will fall where it needs to fall.
2. Measure from the center of the 32 spring, to the front tip of the 32 TT bell. Make the 36 the same. This will allow use of the 36 spring, into the 32 cross-member (with the spring narrowed a little). And, I believe this will change the wheelbase a little.
3. Check hot-rod sources to see if anyone is providing spring mounts to use a 32 spring with a later rear end. If so, re-think how to do all this.
4. Alter driving habits to accommodate the engine/rear end that you have.
5. Consider using a 33-34 rear end (or, if you already have a scalloped 32 rear), and do the mods to put in the 36 center-section. I'm pretty sure this has been outlined on this forum or on the hamb. This is not an easy one, but it would give you the strength of the 36 center-section, combined with the curved 32-34 spring. You would have to stretch the spring, or use slightly longer shackles. (And, of course, you would modify the 36 TT for this configuration.)
Just some ideas......

And.... we haven't even begun to address 36 wishbone mods, due to the 36 having the spring perches on the end of them....

Last edited by bobH; 06-20-2021 at 07:55 PM.
bobH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2021, 07:21 PM   #7
DavidG
Senior Member
 
DavidG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7,726
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

If his rear end has lasted this long with that much oomph in front of it, likely it is the late '32 axle with the straddle-mounted pinion gear.
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2021, 11:07 PM   #8
deuce lover
Senior Member
 
deuce lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern France
Posts: 3,777
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

If you decide on using the 33-34 V8 pass car rear it is 8 9/16" longer (TT & driveshaft) than the stock '32.
deuce lover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2021, 03:40 AM   #9
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 7,290
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

I put a 36 rear end in my 32 sedan current project. I can tell you the numbers but on mine I have home made rear spring perches bolted onto the axle. I have set the wheelbase to 106" though.
I did the torque tube first, covered it in this video:

https://youtu.be/PFI4sniuH7w

I then deduced the length of the driveshaft and covered it in this video.

https://youtu.be/-mOo2eZX_2U

Mine ended up at:
Torque tube: 1339mm. 52.72"
driveshaft: 1294mm. 50.94" (Including coupler).
I found mm much easier to work with on this job.
Whatever torque tube length you end up with, making the driveshaft 55mm (including coupler) shorter will put the speedo gear in the right place.

Mart.

Last edited by Mart; 06-21-2021 at 03:49 AM.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2021, 05:51 AM   #10
Charlie ny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,748
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

I was hoping to use the '32 spring and install it on the '36 rear. My axle has the round
collar and no straddle mount. My motor quickly did away with the 4:11 rear the truck came with so I gathered enough parts to quickly build a 3:78 rear....non straddle. 3:78 are holding up but this thing launches so nice...well you know.
Charlie ny
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2021, 06:10 AM   #11
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 4,429
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

Why can't you just use the '32 side bells to keep the spring where it needs to be and '36 everything else? I'm under the impression the side bells are interchangeable as long as they are the correct length of the particular axle shaft.

Last edited by Tim Ayers; 06-21-2021 at 09:24 AM.
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2021, 09:13 AM   #12
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 8,322
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
Why can't you just use the '32 side bells to keep the spring where it needs to be and '36 everything else? I'm under the impression the side bells are interchangeable as long as they the correct length of the particular axle shaft.

The axle bells WILL bolt-on, but the holes are "clocked" differently by 10 I've read, so that is going to impose a 'difficult'-to-deal-with angle on the spring. And it becomes difficult to keep the axles themselves at a "correct length" because the '35 and later BANJO is 5/16" wider than the '32 banjo.

Those boys at HOT ROD WORKS in Idaho MAY have THE answer with some "magical", different-width bearings that they offer. I'd give them a call! DD
__________________
Click Links Below

'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN


T5 W/TORQUE TUBE
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2021, 09:24 AM   #13
Tim Ayers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 4,429
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
The axle bells WILL bolt-on, but the holes are "clocked" differently by 10 I've read, so that is going to impose a 'difficult'-to-deal-with angle on the spring. And it becomes difficult to keep the axles themselves at a "correct length" because the '35 and later BANJO is 5/16" wider than the '32 banjo.

Those boys at HOT ROD WORKS in Idaho MAY have THE answer with some "magical", different-width bearings that they offer. I'd give them a call! DD
Thank you. I didn't realize that.
Tim Ayers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2021, 10:33 AM   #14
32phil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montgomery, NY & Port St. Lucie Florida
Posts: 854
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

On 32 rears, the torque tubes are the same length for the round flange and the Hex (that's what Ford called the late 32 style TT) style.
Center sections are the same axle center line to the TT mounting flange. You can use the round flange drive shaft if you cut it at the rear weld and then weld in the adapter. Have the adapter turned down to fit inside the driveshaft. Have this and the welding done by a professional.
I'm using a 6 to 10 spline driveshaft adapter from Joe's Antique Parts in Mass.
Spring hangers/springs are the same soooooo you can do a direct swap of a complete round flange for a complete hex flange rear. 33 34 rears are the same as 32 hex rears the difference is in the TT. 33 34 TT are longer and need to be shortened to the proper length to install in a stock 32. Drive shafts too.
What I have learned over the years is when installing a later, 35 up rear in a 32 Ford the location of center bolt for the later straight spring is the same as for the 32 curved rear spring.
The straight spring will not go into a stock 32 rear Xmember without some modification.
It will interfere in two places. You can grind the spring to allow it to fit in the rear Xmember or you can modify the 32 Xmember to fit the spring. Not very difficult either way. When you try to put it in you will see the areas of interference and then you can get out the grinder or modify the Xmember.
One new option is Roadster Supply sells a 32 rear Xmember designed specifically to put a straight spring rear in a 32. I think it's lowered 2 inches and will take the straight spring and is already drilled for the rivets.
As far as the TT and driveshaft lengths:
These dimensions are what I'm going with for my car.
Hopefully someone else will verify or dispute.
This is for a 1940 Ford rear in a stock 32 chassis.
The TT is 53 1/8" the drive shaft is 50 1/8'' tip to tip
When you shorten the driveshaft make sure it is clocked properly to keep the bottom on the bottom and the speedo gear in the correct place.
Also at some point you will need to relocate the rear radius rods.
I'm using round flange style as they mount inboard and don't hit the frame rails on a lowered car. New brackets must be welded on the bells and the holder for the center bolt must be repositioned on the TT as well.
Hope this helps.
Feel free to comment
__________________
Early Ford Lock & Key Service
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46583
32phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2021, 12:47 PM   #15
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 8,322
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32phil View Post
As far as the TT and driveshaft lengths:
These dimensions are what I'm going with for my car.
Hopefully someone else will verify or dispute.


When you shorten the driveshaft make sure it is clocked properly to keep the bottom on the bottom and the speedo gear in the correct place.

Hey Phil....Here are the figures that I have on file....I believe ALL within a blond hair of what you have.


TORQUE TUBES '33/'34

V8 = 61-13/16"
4-cyl = 60-3/16"

DRIVE SHAFTS '33/'34

V8 = 60-5/32"
4-cyl = 58-7/16"
__________________________________

1932 SCALLOPED Torque Tube and Drive Shaft

'32 Torque Tube = 53=5/16"
'32 Drive Shaft (Matching) = 51-5/8"

___________________________________


When comparing the FLAT-FACED scalloped flange area on the EARLY banjo with that of the LATE banjo, you'll notice in the pictures below that the single "odd" drain hole (for oil to drain from T/TUBE) does NOT match-up between early and late. I would think it maybe prudent to keep this in mind, depending on which Torque Tube/Banjo combination one goes with.


'32-'34 BANJO





LATE BANJO




For what it's worth, one last suggestion when considering shortening a T/Tube. Never make any cuts on the torque tube at the front...too many different variables in this area, plus the TAPER to deal with. With that said, the SPEEDOMETER GEAR should always be the SAME distance from the hemispherical bell....a constant! This becomes beneficial when it comes to measuring for how much to remove at the rear end of tube. The most-critical and exacting measurement will be the length between the centerline of the speedo gear, and the center of the hole in the splined pinion for the driveshaft LOCK PIN. Everything else is easily calculated off of that measurement. DD


........
__________________
Click Links Below

'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN


T5 W/TORQUE TUBE
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2021, 08:53 AM   #16
Charlie ny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,748
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

Thank you thank you thank you ! Great info every where. Based on the above and
some personal council from Mart I think I will modify the '36 spring so I am able to
retain the '36 spring mounts.

From personal experience will this get me set except for shortening the TT and drive

shaft and wish bones ?
Charlie
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2021, 09:56 AM   #17
32phil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Montgomery, NY & Port St. Lucie Florida
Posts: 854
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

V8COOPMAN I agree 100%
__________________
Early Ford Lock & Key Service
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46583
32phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2021, 12:05 PM   #18
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 8,322
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

Quote:
Originally Posted by cas3 View Post
So, the number would be, you're 32 tube length - 9 1/6"

cas .....If you MEANT to say "MINUS 9-1/16 inches"....then THEORETICALLY, you should be spot-on! DD
__________________
Click Links Below

'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN


T5 W/TORQUE TUBE
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2021, 01:06 PM   #19
Andy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kerrville, Tx
Posts: 2,571
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

You could make bolt on plate adapters that move the wishbones forward to retain the wheel base and then heat and bend the spring mounts to the angle needed for the 32 spring. I am a big fan of using the original spring as they are the right rate for the car.
I had a friend and the height and wheelbase were both wrong after a rear end change and the adapters fixed both problems. They just bolted between the axle housings and the radius rods.
Andy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2021, 05:01 PM   #20
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 8,322
Default Re: '36 rear end in my '32

.

Charlie....Hold the press!

I like what you're doing here, and I've been beating my brain trying to help you figure-out a CLEAN way of doing this. I know that YOU are one of the relative few guys on the forum here that is pretty-well qualified and equipped to do the necessary mods to make this project turn-out RIGHT!

As "Andy" suggested, I finally got to looking at old posts, trying to figure a way to possibly fabricate a bolt-on adapter to possibly move the '36 radius rods inboard OR outboard on the '36 axle bells so that you could utilize the 'curved '32 spring on the '36 hangers. I am a huge advocate of "BOLTING things TOGETHER" if at all possible. Then, I remembered that STOCK '32 Fords normally have the rear wheels sitting JUST FORWARD of center in the fender openings. It would look so much nicer IF they were CENTERED in the fender opening. Then, I came-across an old thread where several guys are talking about putting '36 rears in '32 chassis.

A couple of folks noted that if you use a straight spring, it tends to position the wheels (axle) in the CENTER of the fender opening like they should have been. A couple of folks also noted using a 1940 FRONT spring (with higher arch) with several of the leaves removed. The idea of the higher arch being that the main leaf can be spread for the wider mount required for the rear. They said that the '40 FRONT spring will sit in the '32 REAR crossmember with NO MODIFICATIONS. You will have to NARROW the shackle mount on each '36 radius rod/spring mount to accommodate the narrower '40 FRONT spring.

Interestingly, I found figures that indicate the '32 spring hanger mounts are 47-1/2" wide, whereas the '36 hanger mounts are 48-1/4" wide....ONLY 3/4" WIDER for the '36.

I saw a note that indicated that the '36 radius rods are so long that they will reach forward to about the area of the '32 K-member. That MAY make it difficult to fit to the bottom of the torque tube if they are TOO long. Someone suggested utilizing the shorter '42-'48 rear radius rods, with a mounting lug re-welded at an appropriate spot on the bottom of your '32 torque tube.

I believe there are some pretty nifty bits of info in this link to that old thread BELOW, for you to consider. Link below! Give it a GOOD read, Charlie.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...rear+wishbones

Having shortened a '35 torque tube and drive shaft for our "T5 Transmission to Torque Tube" project (click on the MAROON-colored link at the extreme lower left of this note), may I remind you that the most important measurement to consider for shortening your D/SHAFT and T/TUBE will be the distance from the center line of where the speedometer gear will be (which you can mock-up with the front end of the un-cut drive shaft fitted into the driveshaft U-Joint at trans), and the center of the hole in the splined pinion shaft for the drive shaft LOCK PIN. You can take this measurement once you have the rear end & spring mounted in the final location. ALWAYS cut the REAR END of the drive shaft and torque tube. You don't want to cut the FORWARD TAPERED portion of the T/TUBE, nor the FRONT end of D/SHAFT where the roller bearing and SPEEDO GEAR are mounted. That speedo gear position remains a constant, and easily measured in conjunction with REAR of transmission.

I hope some of this will help you get this done in the normal "Charlie ny" tradition. If I can help in any other way, please give me a shout!

Dick Davidson (DD)
__________________
Click Links Below

'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN


T5 W/TORQUE TUBE
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:51 PM.