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Old 03-20-2020, 04:05 PM   #21
derek costello
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Tubman is right, We install highlift cams and heaver valve springs and increased pressure oil pumps.. All these modifications are not what Mr. Ford contemplated, the increased loads on the camshaft and the aluminum timing gear should perhaps have better lubrication because of this!
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Old 03-20-2020, 04:15 PM   #22
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

I would look at what Ronnie said. And he's not concerned.
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Old 03-20-2020, 04:35 PM   #23
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Since when are questions about these engines a bad thing? Sometimes I think this forum looses sight of what it's real purpose is.
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Old 03-20-2020, 09:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek costello View Post
Tubman is right, We install highlift cams and heaver valve springs and increased pressure oil pumps.. All these modifications are not what Mr. Ford contemplated, the increased loads on the camshaft and the aluminum timing gear should perhaps have better lubrication because of this!



Its not needed that area of the engine sees plenty of oil not only from the original design. But also from additional windage due to the oil flowing out of the front main bearing thats now covering the crank gear.
High lift cams and valve springs with additional pressure compared to stock will not cause any additional wear on the front gears theres actually so little strain on this assembly when you compare the design to an overhead valve arrangement the Ford flathead design is way over built.
When it cones to the additional load in the overhead valve layout i also know from decades of experience even then the stock arrangement will give many years and thousands of miles of reliable service. Oh and it will also work well at well over 200MPH
When it comes to increased pressure/volume oil pumps that to will not cause additional loads that will stress those gears. The higher volume pumps have relief valves that are set so soft there not going to hurt anything. Case in point is if the pump would cause more load than the area of concern would be the idler gear at the rear of the block. From my experience theres never been an issue at the idler end.
Thinking and asking questions is a good thing and thinking outside the box is always interesting. Good luck
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:37 PM   #25
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Now that we've considered all the options we have her, nobody has mentioned all the oil coming out of the front main bearing, which hits the slinger from the gear on the crank acting like an oil pump. I doubt vry much if there is an oiling problem in the front cover, no matter what engine your running..
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:44 PM   #26
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

The aluminum timing gear will make more noise but more oiling won't fix that either. Some folks like the sound anyway. You can tell they are there, sort of like an old quick change rear axle set up.
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Old 03-21-2020, 04:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

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Now that we've considered all the options we have her, nobody has mentioned all the oil coming out of the front main bearing, which hits the slinger from the gear on the crank acting like an oil pump. I doubt vry much if there is an oiling problem in the front cover, no matter what engine your running..



A Ol' Ron read post #25 above its mentioned!
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"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder and Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record run July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 from a standing start in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
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Old 03-22-2020, 09:39 AM   #28
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Missed that, don't know if it's my eyesight , or brain. Interesting discussion, for a non problem.
Gramps
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

OK: I'm anal. about this lack of lubrication to the timing gear area of the late flathead blocks. I have taken the timing cover off of other blocks and they all seem dry in there, (compared to the valve valley or crankshaft area) these areas all are wet with oil from the last time the engine was run! So I redrilled the pipe plug in the timing gear chamber.020"
which will give me a few drops of oil without robbing the front cam bearings or crankshaft of oil.......now my increased loads on my cam shaft have been satisfied!
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Old 03-23-2020, 03:55 PM   #30
derek costello
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

OK I'm anal about the dry area I keep finding in other flathead blocks in this cam gear area. so I redrilled a .020" hole in the pipe plug, to help with the increased loads on my camshaft.

After looking at other late flathead blocks the valve Vally and the crankshaft areas were wet with oil from last being run BUT the cam gear area was DRY!

This is on engines that perhaps have not been run for awhile.............
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Old 03-23-2020, 04:56 PM   #31
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek costello View Post
OK: I'm anal. about this lack of lubrication to the timing gear area of the late flathead blocks. I have taken the timing cover off of other blocks and they all seem dry in there, (compared to the valve valley or crankshaft area) these areas all are wet with oil from the last time the engine was run! So I redrilled the pipe plug in the timing gear chamber.020"
which will give me a few drops of oil without robbing the front cam bearings or crankshaft of oil.......now my increased loads on my cam shaft have been satisfied!

The valley and crank shaft areas on old engines will be visually wetter this is caused by the windage of oil. Question how is it the lifters do not wear the cam lobes since they have no oil feeding them? Answer windage.
One more time there is no lack of oil to the cam and crank gear. Now what you have accomplished is reduce the oil flow UNDER PRESSURE to the front Main bearing not a smart thing to do. The front main bearing and finally the rod bearings at the very end of the flathead oil delivery design will now see reduced flow. Good luck.
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"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder and Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record run July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 from a standing start in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:20 PM   #32
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Back in the 50's I had a customer bring a new rebuilt engine in that he had just done. He was complaining of only 40 lb of oil pressure with an M15 pump. I took the front cover off and he had forgotten to install the plug in the galley behind the cam gear.

I highly doubt a .020 hole is going to affect the oil preassure or volume even with a stock pump.

A much more important thing to do on a wet sump flathead is to widen and deepen the grooves in the front and center cam journals for more flow to the mains.
8ba's usually have no problems but the early cams quite often have over 50% of the groove blocked by casting flash.
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:34 PM   #33
derek costello
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

I can only go by dry timing gear areas, I will report on my .020" hole modification.

This size hole will not affect front cam bearing lube.
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Old 03-24-2020, 01:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek costello View Post
I can only go by dry timing gear areas, I will report on my .020" hole modification.

This size hole will not affect front cam bearing lube.
Timing cover surface is vertical, so oil is going to drip back into the pan, thus appearing drier than the valley area.
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:20 PM   #35
derek costello
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

The oil coming out of my 020" hole will either squirt on the back of the cam timing wheel or just run down on to the cam shaft collar then onto the cam gear either way I will satisfy my dry camshaft gear problem.

My existing oil pressure is 80lbs cold so I know I have sufficient oil pressure to take care of that front cam/crank bearing as well as my oil-hole modification.....
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Old 03-25-2020, 07:40 PM   #36
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by derek costello View Post
The oil coming out of my 020" hole will either squirt on the back of the cam timing wheel or just run down on to the cam shaft collar then onto the cam gear either way I will satisfy my dry camshaft gear problem.

My existing oil pressure is 80lbs cold so I know I have sufficient oil pressure to take care of that front cam/crank bearing as well as my oil-hole modification.....
Whoa! are you sure? This is not a normal situation and it IS NOT desirable, It looks like we have a whole new situation to help you with.
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Old 03-25-2020, 08:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Well at least all those worn out gears at the front of the Canadian flatheads will now be a thing of the past. And think about all the other worn out stuff found in the front of the engine the distributor drive gear the distributor gear as well as the distributor shaft bushings finally a solution to that as well. Wonder if a seal will now be needed below the distributor to keep oil from leaking out with all the extra oil flying around. LMAO
However this might help improve fuel economy.
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I use the F word a lot no not that word these words Flathead , Focus and Finish.
"Life Member of the Bonneville 200 MPH Club using a Ford Flathead block"
Owner , Builder and Driver of the First Ford Flathead bodied roadster to run 200 MPH Record run July 13, 2018 LTA timing association 200.921 from a standing start in one and a half miles burning gasoline.
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Old 03-27-2020, 01:11 PM   #38
derek costello
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Default Re: Timing gear oiling?

Ronnie is right! The Distributor gear was dry in both engines and so was the lower bearing in the bottom shaft of the distributor........
I think this additional oiling is going to benefit those areas.........
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