29 CCPU window channel install

[Ed Saniewski]

I started to install the new repop window channels in my pick up and they only have a hook at one end of the channel. when I restored my 31 S/W Sedan the channel had connectors on both ends that held it in place. The steel track inside the door has two holes on the bottom and a lip on the top. Has anyone installed a new set lately? Do I glue the channel to the lower part of the track? The kit came with a set of very small screws, do these play a part in the puzzle?

[Ed Saniewski]

Bttt

[HDowse]

Ed - I'll go out and check my pickup in an hour or so. I redid my window channels so have been through this same problem. Hunt

[Neil Wilson]

If runs are glued into place, they can not be slid up and down!

For the 82-A closed cab, the door glass runs must be installed with an upper and lower clip. The runs must be able to slide up and down. To install the glass, the runs must be slid up to unhook the upper clip to allow the runs to be tilted inward. The glass can then be lowered into the runs and lowered about half way down. The runs are then hooked at the top and slid down (with the glass installed). The procedure is unique to the 82-A since other doors have removable tops. So, the runs don't need to move.

The new square bottom "U" runs I bought were too wide to slide in the metal retainers. I had to clamp the runs (used a 1/4" thick metal strap and vice) to make them smaller (made them a rounded "U" shape).

[HDowse]

In looking at my '28 CC P/U just now, the tops of the doors are removable and I recall that I did remove the tops, ran the window glass up and removed the glass from the door. This requires removing the window crank handle and escutcheon plate as well as the door panel, none of which are particularly complicated tasks. I see that the channels are clipped on the top and screwed with a small screw mid way down. Since the window is in the channel, I can't tell if I used a screw at the bottom of the channel. I did not glue in the channels but did use contact cement on the rubber at the top of the window.

[wrndln]

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I was pretty sure that the top of the door on a 28/29 CCPU is NOT removable like closed cars are. I thought the inside metal trim was removed to gain access to installing the felt window channels and glass, like Neil noted above. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I haven't looked at my 29 CCPU lately, as it is patiently waiting to be restored and is currently under a tarp.
Rusty Nelson

[Ed Saniewski]

Guys, thank you so much. The top of the door on my 82-A dose not come off and the channel only has one clip. I think I will have to do HDowse did an clip the bottom of the track and use the small sheet metal screws to fasten the channel up high. Neil, did you make those pictures up or is there a book with that info? It is 1 degree Fahrenheit this morning here in Denville NJ, and I am off to work ,but I will be out in the barn this afternoon and look again at the doors. By the way, did anyone come up with an easy way to replace the bottom bumpers, other then drilling out the rivits that hold the bracket, Hmmmmmm? Thanks again.

[Neil Wilson]

Hello Ed,
I took the pictures I posted. They are of my 82-A project. If you can't find the lower clips, then using a screw to hold the runs sounds like it will work. I had not thought of that option. The screws would need to be removed if ever the glass needs to be removed. I think that gluing the runs is a bad idea.

I glued the rubber bumper to the brackets inside of the door. I used the glue which came with the set of runs. I used a "C" style vice grip to clamp the bumpers while the glue was drying. Time will determine if this was a good idea.

FYI - Attached is a picture showing an original door glass channel assembly with the weather strip installed.

[Steve Plucker]

Were not the original channels made of rubber (and not with steel reenforcements), then the cloth sewed onto the rubber including the two "round" tubes on either side of the cloth, then the clips added so as when the channel was put into the door, all one had to do was just "pull" the rubber chanel to lock it in place?

OR were there two types of these channels?

Pluck

[Ed Saniewski]

Steve, I think you are probably correct , but I don't think anyone is making it that way. The kit I got was from Bratton's. I went out to the barn and it looks like I will be able to clip the lower end of the channel and secure the top with screws.My 160-B had the channels you describe. Neil, thanks again for the help. Your photos are great.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by Ed Saniewski

Steve, I think you are probably correct , but I don't think anyone is making it that way. The kit I got was from Bratton's. I went out to the barn and it looks like I will be able to clip the lower end of the channel and secure the top with screws.My 160-B had the channels you describe. Neil, thanks again for the help. Your photos are great.

Ed,

I made my own...just followed the original one I had, found the rubber channel, tubing, black cloth and had them sewen up just like the originals.

It was a snap to put them in!

Pluck

[JTW]

Pictures & rubber channel - tubing source?

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by JTW

Pictures & rubber channel - tubing source?

I got the material in 1980 from a company called WEFCO Rubber Manufacturing Company in Santa Monica, CA.

I do not know if they are still in business or not.

Bratton's has the window channel clips but they look nothing like the originals but look like they will do.

The black felt is of good quality, not thin cheap stuff but a thick material.

The total width of the material is 2-1/4 inches before the sewing of the beading to the material.

I have two types of "beading"...one is hollow rubber, the other a rope type material. Both about 0.170 inch in diameter.

The beading is sewed into the felt material so as to have a 1/2 inch fold on both sides of the felt. When both sides are sewn, the width is then 1-1/4 inch for the assembly.

The felt then is placed into a rubber channel EVENLY. This channel is 9/16 inch wide and 1/4 inch high on the OUTSIDE measurements. The INSIDE measurements of the rubber channel are just a little under 7/16 inch wide but not by much. The height is 3/16 inch. If I recall, I had to get some that was slightly oversized or as close to the original as possible which worked fine.

NOW...you can place the felt assembly into the rubber channel two ways. The correct way is that the two sides are folded towards each other and the end of the folds are "seen" when sewed within the channel...if that makes any sence.

Once the material is placed into the rubber channel EVENLY, it is sewed down the right side, then down the left side of the rubber channel, about an 1/8 inch on both sides from the outer edge on the back of the rubber channel.

The metal clips were then attached with two tube rivets each end.

I can not remember what the original length of each completed channel is...I would think the archives could answer that question OR maybe someone has an original channel and can add to this.

I would think you would want to make them just a little short, not much though, so as when they are attached to the door, they pull up nice and tight but the archival drawings should be more exact.

The complete assembly were refered to as "Runs". I think there may have been several types...This is what I got out of my 1929 Standard Coupe and a Special Coupe and a Tudor Sedan which is represented by A-45983-C.

The Closed Cab, "A" and "AA" Panel Bodies took A-79945-B...just how they differ I do not know. HOWEVER...was not the glass in the Closed Cabs and Panels somewhat thicker than the Coupes? I think it was therefore the "Run Assembly" may be different in size. The Closed Cab's is the same as T-50793-X which ='s A-79945-B.

By the way...in reviewing the November 15, 1929 and August 15, 1930 Body Parts List's, it shows us that there were 20 different types of "Run Assemblies" available for all the body styles up to that point...I wonder just how they all differed and just what was available later also for the other body styles yet to appear?

Maybe it is about time for a Technical Article on these "Runs"!

Pluck

[Neil Wilson]

The Judging Standards lists about four different door glass "runs". I have only see one style. Attached is a picture of a section.

I searched for Wefco Rubber Manfacturing Co and got a hit on the Internet. So, I hope that they still have the rubber channel. I am very disappointed with the runs that are being sold since they don't look much like original.

Steve, how about posting some pictures of the runs that you made?

[Steve Plucker]

[QUOTE=Neil Wilson;148872]The Judging Standards lists about four different door glass "runs". I have only see one style. Attached is a picture of a section.

I searched for Wefco Rubber Manfacturing Co and got a hit on the Internet. So, I hope that they still have the rubber channel. I am very disappointed with the runs that are being sold since they don't look much like original.

Steve, how about posting some pictures of the runs that you made?[/QUOTE]


Neil, I would but they have been in my 1929 Standard Coupe since 1983!

Pluck

[RockHillWill]

I made up a number of these widow felt channels for my Panel Delivery project. The archive drawings show that the rubber .500" to .530 wide and .312" tall. Up until early '29 the inside was rubber tube at which time it went to the 'rope' insert. If I recall correctly the overall height was shown on at least 12 variations of the drawing as 5/8".

I went to a lot of trouble to gather up all the pieces and make these and they worked great on my Dec.'30 Panel Delivery, (2) '31 Pick up trucks and (2) Tudors. The steel door channels were 5/8" wide and about 5/16" high.

But when trying to apply to a '28 pickup cab, thes channels made the widow glass very tight. In looking into the problem, it was noted that the steel channel inside the door was almost 1/2" tall, rather than the 5/16" tall.

Can anyone explain when this change in steel channel heights might have incurred? For what applications?

I must have looked at over (30) drawings at the archives and only found the dimensions that I showed above.wd41 007sm.jpg

wd41 006sm.jpg

[Neil Wilson]

RockHillWill,
Attached is a picture of a run (repo) and a "run retainer" (Ford's parts list names). The run retainer is for an 82-A closed cab. Is this the part which you reference? If yes, I will try to measure the retainer depth on my early '30 closed cab.

Original runs that I have seen for '28/'29's (closed cab and tudor) have had the cord. Also, the material is a cloth and not felt. Was there anything in the engineering drawings that you looked at which specified the material?

[Neil Wilson]

Sorry, I forgot the photograph

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by Neil Wilson

RockHillWill,
Attached is a picture of a run (repo) and a "run retainer" (Ford's parts list names). The run retainer is for an 82-A closed cab. Is this the part which you reference? If yes, I will try to measure the retainer depth on my early '30 closed cab.

Original runs that I have seen for '28/'29's (closed cab and tudor) have had the cord. Also, the material is a cloth and not felt. Was there anything in the engineering drawings that you looked at which specified the material?

You are right Neil...it is a cloth not felt "cloth".

Pluck

[d.j. moordigian]

This is EXCELLENT !

Part #'s and more photos would be great. I don't have any idea what this stuff looks
like or how it works. Looking down the road at my 28 PU.

Thank you, Dudley