Autolite Spark Users Only

[billybronco1]

My 36 runs very rich, carb has been replaced and adjusted more than once. Current plugs are Autolite 388 and by what I have read that is a pretty hot plug. Plugs are black as well as the tail pipe, no smoke. I see a lot of people use the 216 or 386. Should I stick with what I have or try something else? What do you use "Autolite users only please" not to confuse the matter.

[40cpe]

I use Autolite 216 in my 8BA 276" engine with a Rochester 2G carb. My plugs show a medium brown color. I'm unsure how much effect the rest of the ignition system has on the plug color. Dirty points and plug wires with high resistance could affect plugs.

[35fordtn]

I run 386's on the Early engines with the 18MM thread size with ZERO issues. On a stock engine, a 388 Autolite should perform fine as well although it is supposedly a heat ranger hotter than should be run... or so I'm told

Also, in recent years I only run autolites of NGK

[alanwoodieman]

what carb do you have on your 36? Stromberg or Ford 94 type? I use and recommend auto lite 216. power valve can be leaking in a 94 and cause this problem

[billybronco1]

I don't know I just bought the car and I'm trying to figure out all these things out is it on the carburetor itself? Also I like to determine the engine model which has been replaced.

[JSeery]

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There is an article on ID engines, I'll have to try and find it. Evolution of the Flathead is a good article, but my copy is like 3.4 Mb and too large to load.

[35fordtn]

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

what carb do you have on your 36? Stromberg or Ford 94 type? I use and recommend auto lite 216. power valve can be leaking in a 94 and cause this problem

216’s are too small (14mm) for the early 18mm heads 386 is the 18mm equivalent

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

My 36 runs very rich, carb has been replaced and adjusted more than once. Current plugs are Autolite 388 and by what I have read that is a pretty hot plug. Plugs are black as well as the tail pipe, no smoke. I see a lot of people use the 216 or 386. Should I stick with what I have or try something else? What do you use "Autolite users only please" not to confuse the matter.

Don't understand why you are trying to correct a richness problem by changing spark plugs.
To me the most obvious thing to do is to address carburetor jetting, etc.
And it could be something as simple as a clogged air cleaner.

[billybronco1]

I'm sure that will be a discussion for a later date, I have many things to sort out before I address that. I was just curious what others were using for plugs, I didn't read many using the 388.

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

what carb do you have on your 36? Stromberg or Ford 94 type? I use and recommend auto lite 216. power valve can be leaking in a 94 and cause this problem

alanwoodieman,

I'm not sure what carb this is, I can't find any markings on it.

[alanwoodieman]

Stromberg carb, so I would think too large jets, back up and take a picture of the engine head. take the air cleaner off and make sure it is not clogged up, It appears to be a dry type and the "cleaner" part of the air cleaner is a wrapped up bunch of fiber mesh just under the top cover ,remove wing nut and take it off and then remove this and see if the richness goes away

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

alanwoodieman,

I'm not sure what carb this is, I can't find any markings on it.

If no marking, possibly an aftermarket Stromberg 97

[35fordtn]

The Model 40 Strombergs had no markings... But his is a Chinese knockoff of a stromberg,.

[JSeery]

IMO you need to pull the carb and send it to one of the rebuilders here on the Barn and have it checked out/setup. Running a engine with a very rich mixture and lead to premature ware on the cylinder walls and rings. A carb fix is way cheaper and easier than a rebuild. The early repo carbs have known fuel leakage issues. In fact, it is my understanding that the really early ones can not be repaired (for a reasonable price) and you are better off with a new/rebuilt one.

[34PKUP]

Originally Posted by JSeery

IMO you need to pull the carb and send it to one of the rebuilders here on the Barn and have it checked out/setup. Running a engine with a very rich mixture and lead to premature ware on the cylinder walls and rings. A carb fix is way cheaper and easier than a rebuild. The early repo carbs have known fuel leakage issues. In fact, it is my understanding that the really early ones can not be repaired (for a reasonable price) and you are better off with a new/rebuilt one.

Although rebuilding is a good idea (if needed), that is not going to resolve any jetting issues which may be the only problem.

[billybronco1]

Here is a pic of rich on my Autolite 388 plugs, one doesn't look too bad.

[drolston]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Here is a pic of rich on my Autolite 388 plugs, one doesn't look too bad.

Wait, wait! Did these two plugs come out of the same engine at the same time? If so, the problem is not the carb.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by drolston

Wait, wait! Did these two plugs come out of the same engine at the same time? If so, the problem is not the carb.

Before you can make a blanket statement like that, don't we have to know what cylinders they came out of? If they came out of cylinders serviced by the same side of the carburetor, you are probably right, but if they are serviced by different sides, it is possible that one side (barrel) of the carburetor may be functioning properly and the other side is not.

[billybronco1]

I did not keep track of there position I will get new plugs after I deal with some other issues and monitor more closely. I agree that one is worse than the other. I will check to see I have three others that are really black.

[billybronco1]

Only one real black one out of the 8

[Cobra Joe]

Hard to tell by the picture, but does that look more like "oil fouling" than carbon fouling, it looks kind of wet?



I also run 216's

[Phil Gillespie]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Only one real black one out of the 8

Possible that "black one" could be from a cylinder which may not be firing!
To check at all plugs/cylinders for firing. If ok then to next stage.
Phil NZ

[drolston]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Only one real black one out of the 8

That is the same symptom I just tracked down on the "Missing at Full Throttle" thread. Turned out to be a broken connection in the spark plug cable to cylinder #2. With the engine at idle pull any other spark plug wire off and listen for the slight RPM drop. Put that wire back on and pull the wire from the offending cylinder; it will probably not affect the RPM, indicating that cylinder is not firing.

Check continuity of the spark plug wire from the distributor end to the plug end. If you are using solid copper plug wires it will read near zero Ohms. If you are using carbon core wires (bad idea) or spiral wound wires you will find resistance of up to 4,000 Ohms per foot.

And clean or replace the black plug.

[billybronco1]

I'm having trouble with a leaking head gasket or something in one cylinder you might have seen my other post. This plug could have come from that cylinder, don't know. Just ordered new plug and will watch every thing closely moving forward.

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by alanwoodieman

Stromberg carb, so I would think too large jets, back up and take a picture of the engine head. take the air cleaner off and make sure it is not clogged up, It appears to be a dry type and the "cleaner" part of the air cleaner is a wrapped up bunch of fiber mesh just under the top cover ,remove wing nut and take it off and then remove this and see if the richness goes away

I took a closer look at the air cleaner yes has the steel wool and chicken wire does not seem super type or clogged but it also has a fiber type material on top under the cover, is that standard? I do plan to run it a bit with out the air cleaner to see what happens. Other good news previous owner found the original carb, (at lease original to him) says it ran the same as the replacement, but I plan to open it up and perhaps try different jets and power valves and do some experiments. I will start a new tread when I get into that and sure could use some advise.

[billybronco1]

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BTW how the heck do you replace the steel wool and rabbit wire in that air cleaner, it does not appear it comes apart.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

BTW how the heck do you replace the steel wool and rabbit wire in that air cleaner, it does not appear it comes apart.

It's not replaceable (at least not easily). You clean it in a solvent.

[billybronco1]

I guess its hard to tell how the air flow is through the air cleaner without pulling all the stuff out. Do most guys run there stock cars with the original style air clean, seems it could be problematic.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

I guess its hard to tell how the air flow is through the air cleaner without pulling all the stuff out. Do most guys run there stock cars with the original style air clean, seems it could be problematic.

Many have modified their original oil bath air cleaners to accept a dry modern filter.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

I guess its hard to tell how the air flow is through the air cleaner without pulling all the stuff out. Do most guys run there stock cars with the original style air clean, seems it could be problematic.

The air blows down onto the surface of the oil then up through the filter material. It is not a direct path.

[flatford8]

“Do most guys run there stock cars with the original style air clean, seems it could be problematic.”
Mine has been on my car for 70 years. It works just fine. The worst part of an oil bath air cleaner is forgetting it’s got oil in it and tipping it a little when you have it off making a mess.......Mark

[billybronco1]

Mine is not an oil bath as far as I can tell

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Mine is not an oil bath as far as I can tell

Turns out there are both dry and oil bath filters (so much for what I know!)

[billybronco1]

Just steel wool or copper wool? Looks pretty black too, could be why it runs rich.

[JSeery]

A past thread on this filter. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98754

https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/pr...=18&Topic=3401

[billybronco1]

I think I'm going to opt for some kind of replacement and save this one for the next owner.

[TomO]

To determine if the air cleaner is clogged, start the engine and let it idle. Remove the air cleaner with the engine still running, If the engine speed increases significantly, the cleaner is clogged. Clean and oil it.

[Ol' Ron]

I don't understand why people don't buy an AF meter/ There not very expensive and can solve allot of problems in a fraction of a second!!!!!

[billybronco1]

In what is an AF meter?

[tubman]

An "Air/Fuel" meter will tell you the ratio of fuel to air in the intake charge (generally around 14:1) by analyzing the engines exhaust. They essentially need two inputs; 12 volts to power them and a feed from the exhaust. They come with a special cable and a sensor the mounts into the exhaust stream. This can be done in one of two ways; either a bung can be welded into the exhaust pipe (ideally 36" from the exhaust port), or a "Sniffer Tube" that clamps temporarily into your tail pipe. . Obviously, the former is a better way of doing it, but that latter usually is satisfactory.

I have one mounted on my engine test stand. It works well, and cost about $120, including the gauge, cable, and sensor.

[Ross F-1]

They are all 12v tho...

[billybronco1]

Ah, good to know takes a lot of the guessing out of trying to get the air-fuel mixture correct

[JSeery]

Sounds like a good time to use the sealant. You can do a before (which you already have) and after.

[Ol' Ron]

I don't understand why people don't buy an AF meter ?? There not very expensive and can solve allot of problems in a fraction of a second!!!!!

[Phil Gillespie]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

I don't understand why people don't buy an AF meter ?? There not very expensive and can solve allot of problems in a fraction of a second!!!!!

im interested in an AF meter here in NZ dont see much advertized.
Any recomendations please? ebay?
Phil NZ

[petehoovie]

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https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rsrairfuelmeterl.htm

[Phil Gillespie]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rsrairfuelmeterl.htm

with this unit is it easy to swap between vehicles?
Would like to be able to check a couple of flathead setups with this.
Thanks
Phil NZ

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Phil Gillespie

with this unit is it easy to swap between vehicles?
Would like to be able to check a couple of flathead setups with this.
Thanks
Phil NZ

From what I could determine about the unit it sells for about $250 and does not come with the sensor or the weld in bung.
It does not even have a digital readout.

There are more suitable units that come with all the components and can be used on other vehicles.
They need 12 volts to operate but for setup purposes on a 6 volt system a stand alone 12 volt battery can be used.
This is an example of what is available (and the one I am using)----------


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-39...8AAOSwsXFZJTf0

[Ross F-1]

I have the Innovate unit linked above, it is very interesting to watch how the carb responds under different conditions.

You have to weld a bung on the exhaust, preferably up near the manifold. Hook up power and a thick cable between the O2 sensor and the display head. Can be hooked up to a laptop to capture data while driving (see below). I'd say you could switch it between cars in less that half an hour.

[Phil Gillespie]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

I have the Innovate unit linked above, it is very interesting to watch how the carb responds under different conditions.

You have to weld a bung on the exhaust, preferably up near the manifold. Hook up power and a thick cable between the O2 sensor and the display head. Can be hooked up to a laptop to capture data while driving (see below). I'd say you could switch it between cars in less that half an hour.

How do you get on then with twin pipes does it require a bung at each one.?
Appreciate your info as want to be sure to get the right one and all bits in one hit.
Phil NZ

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Phil Gillespie

How do you get on then with twin pipes does it require a bung at each one.?
Appreciate your info as want to be sure to get the right one and all bits in one hit.
Phil NZ

Only one bung on one side required.
That's all I am running.

[JSeery]

The exhaust entering the tail pipe will be a mixture of all the cylinders on one side of the engine and is representative of the air/fuel mixture for the engine.

[billybronco1]

I got the old carb today, now I know its a Stromberg because it says it on it. Do you know what model number this would be? Could this be the original Ford carb? I had the car running for a while today without the air cleaner she was smoking a bit hard to know if its from running rich or burning oil. Smoke was not blue, tail pipe is black. But really how does these cars run on 10% ethanol? Do they tend to run a bit rich anyway?

[billybronco1]

Sorry forgot to send pics

[Bums F-1]

One good thing about Autolite plugs is they have rolled threads, best for aluminum heads.

[Brian]

that's a stromberg 48 -correct for 34-35 Fords

[billybronco1]

How about 36?

[Brian]

36 saw the introduction of the Stromberg 97

[terry]

Seems like I read somewhere that the Stromberg 48 was used in the early 36 Fords, as well. Terry

[cajunfirehawk]

I run the 388's too fwiw.