Front Motor Mount 1956 Year with 302

[Jwawhite]

The lower Core Support holds the Front Motor Mount. The arrangement I think supports the front end sheet metal.

With an engine swap, mine to a 302 motor, what can I do to support the sheetmetal now? The front mount is no longer attached and the front end does move a bit.

[dmsfrr]

On a baby bird the front body sheet-metal fastens to the big U shaped radiator support. Which is held up by welded on brackets resting on rubber pads on two small brackets welded to the frame.
Might something like this work for you?
.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

The lower Core Support holds the Front Motor Mount. The arrangement I think supports the front end sheet metal.

With an engine swap, mine to a 302 motor, what can I do to support the sheet metal now?

The front mount is no longer attached and the front end does move a bit.

You have a 302/5.0L swap and the engine is supported how?

Please describe the installation, and...



Got your PM, but before we can go any further, I need to know what was done to the frame...

[JeffB2]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

The lower Core Support holds the Front Motor Mount. The arrangement I think supports the front end sheet metal.

With an engine swap, mine to a 302 motor, what can I do to support the sheetmetal now? The front mount is no longer attached and the front end does move a bit.

Why would it have been removed in the first place ? I don't see any need for doing it. I have a 302& AOD in my '54 and probably 100+ guys in my HAMB Ford Group have done the swap, Pictures here: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-mounts.41498/

[KULTULZ]

Below is an ILL of a 56 Sedan Frame-

5019 is No. 1 Cross-Member-

This member holds the front of the front clip assy up on a mount. You can shim that mount under the core support to level the front clip.
_________________________________

-EDIT - ADDITIONAL INFO-

This front Cross-Member is subject to corrosion damage and can be replaced as needed (still available).
_________________________________

No. 2 Cross-Member is a part of the frame assy, and carries the engine supports/mounts.

Is your engine swap the same or different somehow?

[KULTULZ]

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Originally Posted by Jwawhite

The lower Core Support holds the Front Motor Mount. The arrangement I think supports the front end sheet metal.

With an engine swap, mine to a 302 motor, what can I do to support the sheetmetal now?

The front mount is no longer attached and the front end does move a bit.

Wondering about your setup. Was the car purchased with the engine swap already performed?

[Jwawhite]

Got The Flag out today.
The car has been put (down) away until Th. While repairing the steering ram grommets, I looked over the front end a bit. It appears to me the fenders, inner fenders and core support hang above the frame. When driving the car, it looks like the fenders are bobbing up and down a bit. I don't remember this from my last wagon 46 years ago.

K do you have a blow up concerning a Model 59C? Your illustrations are different from my car. The engine swap was done before purchasing car, looks like usual setup, mustang engine mounts? With a transmission mount setup. Do you know the process for leveling front clip? I will look over the front X member for any connection on Th and the the second X member is tubular. What is the process for leveling front clip? From what I've seen concerning previous work, I would not be surprised to find the bolt, shims or grommets missing on front X member.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Got The Flag out today.

The car has been put (down) away until Th. While repairing the steering ram grommets, I looked over the front end a bit. It appears to me the fenders, inner fenders and core support hang above the frame. When driving the car, it looks like the fenders are bobbing up and down a bit. I don't remember this from my last wagon 46 years ago.

K do you have a blow up concerning a Model 59C? Your illustrations are different from my car. The engine swap was done before purchasing car, looks like usual setup, mustang engine mounts? With a transmission mount setup. Do you know the process for leveling front clip? I will look over the front X member for any connection on Th and the the second X member is tubular. What is the process for leveling front clip? From what I've seen concerning previous work, I would not be surprised to find the bolt, shims or grommets missing on front X member.

At No. 1 X-Member. the core support rides on as the ILL shows. Make sure the mount/hardware is intact. You shim/shim pack that mounting to raise the front clip.

I need photos if possible of how the engine was installed (mounts on No. 2 - tubular) X-Member.

[Jwawhite]

Thursday photos will be taken and I'll post them.

Isn't that something, the front clip of car rests on the center point of core support to the first X member.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Thursday photos will be taken and I'll post them.

Isn't that something, the front clip of car rests on the center point of core support to the first X member.

Well, that is the front support for the clip. It is stabilized by it's attachment to the cowl/hinge pillars.

Re-read my earlier posts. That No. 1 (5019) X-Member is subject to corrosion. Replacement are available.

[Jwawhite]

What is this? Aftermarket? This brace may be supporting the front end sheet metal. I won't be able to mount this bracket on mine for there is an aftermarket tubular finned auto transmission cooler there. dmsffr mount system looks doable on mine (your work looks great btw dmsffr. Thinking of L brackets off frame side supports with-body mount pads- welded to core support...preliminary thoughts. I've ordered the 49-59 Illustrative Manual on CD and perhaps the above mount is in it.

[CrownVic55]

That is factory. Sets the height of the splash pan and front end sheet metal. Check the Hot Rod Reverends post on this site. Last page, close to bottom shows that bracket and what happens if it isn't there. His site has lots of very good info. He also sells a cd with service manuals on it. Check that out if you don't have them.
Ben

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

What is this? Aftermarket? This brace may be supporting the front end sheet metal. I won't be able to mount this bracket on mine for there is an aftermarket tubular finned auto transmission cooler there.

Originally Posted by CrownVic55

That is factory. Sets the height of the splash pan and front end sheet metal.

Check the Hot Rod Reverends post on this site. Last page, close to bottom shows that bracket and what happens if it isn't there. His site has lots of very good info.

He also sells a cd with service manuals on it. Check that out if you don't have them.

Ben

The shown setup (your photo) is OEM as mentioned. The actual core support (16138) is supported by the front cross-member (5019) and that bracket shown (17899) supports the gravel shield, grille center support and hood latch.

If you look closely under the 16138 is an insulator. This supports the complete front end assy. There is a rubber insulator there (AD 8125-B). This has to be sound and where you would adjust the front assy for height/level if necessary.

The MPC PARTS ILL shown (Re: Typical) is showing the 57/57 support system. This may cause confusion.

Are you saying this bracket is missing on your wagon?

[Jwawhite]

Yes, it's missing, apparently removed for Trans cooler, will have photos Friday. Explains front end bobbing....more corners than I can count were cut on this car.

I'm afraid to do a compression test.....

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Yes, it's missing, apparently removed for Trans cooler, will have photos Friday. Explains front end bobbing....more corners than I can count we're cut on this car.

I'm afraid to do a compression test.....

Nothing like having an old car...

It would be difficult to say all it has been through.

Your 302, is it carbed or injected? Trans type?

[Jwawhite]

It's a 1994 302 fuel injected, AOD with tv cable. OBD1 with readable port.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Yes, it's missing, apparently removed for Trans cooler, will have photos Friday. Explains front end bobbing....more corners than I can count were cut on this car.
.....

It might be time to move the trans cooler a bit?

[Jwawhite]

dmsfrr, yes, I was thinking about attaching the Trans Cooler to the underside of the Stone shield in front of the lower bracket (possibly) behind the front bumper. It appears the mechanic welded two tabs to the Radiator bracket and frame--- then proceeded to make a frame pad sandwich. Question is since the front sheet metal is somewhat attached to the frame, why the perceptible movement of fenders? Thank you K for the frame diagram, above, note the lower front bracket welded to the frame with an eyelet fore and aft. Was the rear eyelet the original connection of bracket that surrounds radiator? I see no other tabs on that piece to hold the core support assy.

[dmsfrr]

I'm not familiar enough with the front sheet-metal layout to have an idea.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

... note the lower front bracket welded to the frame with an eyelet fore and aft.

Was the rear eyelet the original connection of bracket that surrounds radiator? I see no other tabs on that piece to hold the core support assy.

Yes, the rear islet for the core support insulator and front eyelet for the center grille-hood latch support.

Whoever did this conversion was not detailed orientated. From what I can see the original frame brkt was cut out and the center brace(s) have no support.

Here is the bottom brkt which has been left out- https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-1956-F...O/222748371144

Keep it under 120MPH!

[KULTULZ]

Here is a photo of a service replacement front cross-member (B5A 5019-C) to give you an idea of the mounting points-

CORRECTION- Shown Is A Take-Out



Why that oversize cooler I have no idea. That would be filed in Circular File #13.

[Jwawhite]

"We don't need no....Details".
I ordered the bracket from Jim on eBay, along with associated parts.
No doubt this is what I find on the car whenever I get into something.....something not quite right.
Thanks to all for looking over this matter and the great info supplied.
I may get this all straightened out in March.

[Jwawhite]

Does anyone have an idea as to the correct parts and the order they are in, concerning the radiator support mounting islets to the frame? The CD does not illustrate this mounting area to frame for a station wagon. Is the illustration for the 51a like a Wagon but with two mounts? It looks like 3 large grommets and one washer, don't know if there is a spring inside the grommets..

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Does anyone have an idea as to the correct parts and the order they are in, concerning the radiator support mounting islets to the frame? The CD does not illustrate this mounting area to frame for a station wagon.

Is the illustration for the 51a like a Wagon but with two mounts? It looks like 3 large grommets and one washer, don't know if there is a spring inside the grommets..

What is being shown on the 54/57 ILL is a 1957 FORD. 51A is a Retractable. At one time, I would a$$-u-me the separate years were shown but as time went on and service parts were deleted, they were combined into TYPICAL ILL.

Read the text on the left side of the Ill



If the correct ILL is not in the Shop Manual, you will need an Assembly Manual for the model year.



The actual insulator is rectangular in shape. I have no idea why the mounting system was changed (fabricated) in such a way unless they had trouble finding the correct service parts (or weren't concerned).

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

1956 Ford Fairlane Town Sedan 292 V8 with Ford-o-Matic

Your '56 is mostly unmolested isn't it?

Do you have the below setup @ the bottom rear of your core support?





This info seems to have been left out of the 49/59 MPC FINAL ISSUE.

[Jwawhite]

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Installed my lower bracket today, it's either short, the front end is up in the air or the frame tang is bent downwards. I'm going with the last but a question I do have is: how can one tell if the front end sheet metal Assy is level? I removed the nut on the backside of the radiator bracket to frame and they may be missing a heavy duty spring. Does it mattter? Anyone familiar with the Wagon setup?
K I have a 302 in mine and the front metal motor mount bracket is long gone, of course. Today I removed the rubber and metal bar from mount that sticks off lower radiator mount, they are no longer useful

[Jwawhite]

K, in your photo above, do you have a camera view of the rear mounts, behind radiator, from underneath or a frontal view...facing the rear of the radiator? What is the makeup of the parts, is it like my photos? Do you have a spring in ea of yours? I have three flat rubber washers with a large washer above and below them.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ; 03-01-2018 POST #25

(Asking another reader)

Your '56 is mostly unmolested isn't it?

Do you have the below setup @ the bottom rear of your core support?





This info seems to have been left out of the 49/59 MPC FINAL ISSUE.

I finally found what all of this is (or was). It's called front engine steady rest and was on all 55-56 (54?) model years. This was in addition to the engine and transmission mounts.

Most application I have seen (photos) has had this feature removed.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Installed my lower bracket today, it's either short, the front end is up in the air or the frame tang is bent downwards. I'm going with the last but a question I do have is: how can one tell if the front end sheet metal Assy is level? I removed the nut on the backside of the radiator bracket to frame and they may be missing a heavy duty spring. Does it mattter? Anyone familiar with the Wagon setup?

K I have a 302 in mine and the front metal motor mount bracket is long gone, of course. Today I removed the rubber and metal bar from mount that sticks off lower radiator mount, they are no longer useful

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

K, in your photo above, do you have a camera view of the rear mounts, behind radiator, from underneath or a frontal view...facing the rear of the radiator? What is the makeup of the parts, is it like my photos? Do you have a spring in ea of yours? I have three flat rubber washers with a large washer above and below them.

I don't have a '56 so I can't be exact in helping you. Someone here will have to hopefully help and provide info/photos.

Yours has had an engine swap and as bad as I hate to say it, not very detailed in the workmanship. I would look for a good donor to pick the needed parts from.

Please keep the board updated.

[KULTULZ]

I hope I haven't scared you.

No matter how much it was butchered, it can be brought back. Are there any old car salvage yards close to where you are?

I want to know the answer to this also as the 55/56 were a lot more complicated than I ever imagined.

Don't forget, the front clip is held up with a main mounting and the mounting you just did. They have to work together.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite POST #26

Installed my lower bracket today, it's either short, the front end is up in the air or the frame tang is bent downwards. I'm going with the last but a question I do have is: how can one tell if the front end sheet metal Assy is level? I removed the nut on the backside of the radiator bracket to frame and they may be missing a heavy duty spring. Does it mattter? Anyone familiar with the Wagon setup?

K I have a 302 in mine and the front metal motor mount bracket is long gone, of course.

Today I removed the rubber and metal bar from mount that sticks off lower radiator mount, they are no longer useful

The front end sheet metal assy is held up by the rear mount via the core support. Yours has been modified/moved to the front. The OEM front mount only holds the center grille brace and hood latch support. It is not strong enough to hold the sheet metal up/steady by itself.

Rethink the rear mount (in your instance front mount).

OK...

The measurements of the installed panels may be given in the SHOP MANUAL-

1956 FORD SHOP MANUAL

Part Four - Bodies

Chapter I - Body Construction and Maintenance

2 - Body Alignment 278

...or...

The original Ill's should be in this catalog - PUB DATE SEP 1956



...or...

The 1956 Specific Body Assembly Manual

[George/Maine]

I bought a 56 with a 302 last fall and was looking at your post mine has the trans lines to radiator and old motor mount removed.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by George/Maine

I bought a 56 with a 302 last fall and was looking at your post mine has the trans lines to radiator and old motor mount removed.

Yeah, it's important to run the fluid through the radiator cooler as the ATF must remain at a certain temp(s) to correctly work just like engine oil. Just an air exchange cooler will cause the trans to operate at too low of a temp.

The latest part being discussed is not an actual mount but something I believe designed to stiffen the frame/chassis.

Is your main core support mount still intact or was it modified?

Thanx for your info...

[Jwawhite]

George, yours is a sedan, yes? If it's a Wagon, would you snap a photo of the back of the radiator viewing up? I'd like to see your mount setup. Thnx

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

George, yours is a sedan, yes? If it's a Wagon, would you snap a photo of the back of the radiator viewing up? I'd like to see your mount setup.

Thnx

All models will have the same setup, wagon or sedan.

[Jwawhite]

K, Wagons are different. Remember the "typical" illustration you posted? It portrays just the single stud through the radiator bracket directly to frame mount piece. Mine: a stud attaches a lower bracket (front of radiator, below stone shield) directly to a mount attached forward off the xmember, also, on the back of my radiator bracket are two attach points from bracket to frame: I am interested in finding out what originally was installed at those two points. Was it rubber cushions with heavy duty springs and large washers? What order of placement?
Was able to drive the Frankenwagon yesterday on surface streets and I believe the bouncing fenders are much improved with the new bracket install.
Left photo bracket as described, right photo rear of radiator, two attach points on either side of forward engine mount. Thank you Jim.

[Jwawhite]

K if you look at the photo posted by George out of Maine (George how are those NorEasters?) there are no rear mounts like mine, but the front motor mount bracket pieces are removed.
They consist of two rectangular rubber pieces, rectangular metal bar to hold the rubber, the metal notched attachment point and 1/2 inch? Nut and bolt. He doesn't have a Wagon looking closer at pic.

[George/Maine]

Jwawhite I just can in from plowing 9hrs so far about 6". I plow early so the state plow doesn't,t plow me in. I think the front cross member has been replaced on mine and handles very good stock height. I,ll get some pics and take a closer. I did notice the splash pan has some rust and pieced together.
I check mine out and the radiator support is bolted to cross member and all sheet medal are held by that. If you have problem with handing your cross member maybe rotted .
ebay


1956 ford crossmember goodell new for $300

[KULTULZ]

Am still ciphering on this 56...

Originally Posted by Jwawhite Posted 12-31-2016

I placed my VIN number into an old Ford vin registry to find out particulars of my Parklane model. Made in Dallas, had a 4 barrel on it, but listed as Customline. Why doesn't the vin distinguish a Parklane? Got to thinking about it, was the extra trim put on during the resto? And then henceforth a Parklane? Finding other vins from Parklanes on-line, they all are identified as Customline.

Any VIN experts out there?

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

I am not positive and need a second opinion about my new to me Ford Wagon.

Here is all the info from the VIN plate.
M6DR110577
60C CDS BB 3K552B

Here is what I'm concerned about: Did I buy a vehicle that is NOT a Parklane?

Was the vehicle misrepresented?

Well, it is trimmed as a PARKLANE but was actually assembled as a CUSTOMLINE RANCH WAGON (59B). The 4th character of the VIN narrows it to 59B.

The PAINT CODE CDS-

C= BERMUDA BLUE (Lower Body)
D= DIAMOND BLUE (Upper Body)
S= SPECIAL PAINT (Customer Special Order-Fleet Colors-Etc.)

Is there anyway you can provide a digital close-up shot of the PATENT PLATE? A few characters are confusing.

KULTULZ- Whistling in the graveyard once again...

THREAD SOURCE- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=211811

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

K, Wagons are different.

Remember the "typical" illustration you posted? It portrays just the single stud through the radiator bracket directly to frame mount piece.

That ILL is 1957 Specific ONLY. The 54-56 is a completely different animal.

Mine: a stud attaches a lower bracket (front of radiator, below stone shield) directly to a mount attached forward off the xmember, also, on the back of my radiator bracket are two attach points from bracket to frame: I am interested in finding out what originally was installed at those two points. Was it rubber cushions with heavy duty springs and large washers? What order of placement?

Your support bracket-



...is fabricated most likely by the person that did the drive-train upgrade.

It is not OEM assembly.

The other pieces you are describing (at rear of radiator) is (was) the ENGINE STEADY-REST and is not needed with the SBF engine swap. The detail of the 56 core support mounting has been deleted from the MPC.

You will need either one of the two manuals I have listed previously and/or someone here with an original assy 56 to take photos. Without the original ILL/diagram, identifying the correct original assy will be difficult.

Thank you Jim.

You are quite welcome Jim. Sometimes I feel that I am adding to the confusion rather than helping...

I would like to know the correct answer myself.

Remember, the main support under the core support (16138) actually supports the front clip. The other bracket, just the gravel shield, grille and hood latch.

[Jwawhite]

K, looking at eBay parts, I came across the attached photo. You'll note the similarities between this bracket (for radiator) and my car. I need to find someone with a Wagon and ask what set up is on theirs, rubber, bushings, spring?, etc. Jim is my Ford part supplier out of northern, CA.

[KULTULZ]

Jwawhite...

Go back and read POST #39 (Edited) in this thread.

I think... ... I have the mount(s) figured out. Will be back later.

[George/Maine]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

K, looking at eBay parts, I came across the attached photo. You'll note the similarities between this bracket (for radiator) and my car. I need to find someone with a Wagon and ask what set up is on theirs, rubber, bushings, spring?, etc. Jim is my Ford part supplier out of northern, CA.

That support looks like my 56
What I think happened they did the swap and found out the fenders were loose up and down. You the buyer know that.
First years of upper control arms they used the engine mount to help the cross member. What they did was put a rubber mount in the hole were the engine was bolted. They didn't know of the weak and rotted front cross member so sold it. You could take a 1/4" x 2" x 24" and weld to bottom of cross member. I do believe that mine was changed and have no problems with my 302V8

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by George/Maine

That support looks like my 56

What I think happened they did the swap and found out the fenders were loose up and down. You the buyer know that.

First years of upper control arms they used the engine mount to help the cross member. What they did was put a rubber mount in the hole were the engine was bolted. They didn't know of the weak and rotted front cross member so sold it. You could take a 1/4" x 2" x 24" and weld to bottom of cross member.

I do believe that mine was changed and have no problems with my 302V8

George, your core support mount has been modified also (most likely they could not find correct replacement parts).

The OP problem seems to be an incorrect re-assembly after the engine upgrade. The builder installed a biscuit type insulator(s) to replace the original mounting system. At the front of the cross-member the brace that holds up the gravel shield - grille support - latch support was left off and the space taken up by a remote ATF cooler.

Most of the original photos are still within this thread.

Photos of OEM install (and these are not exactly detailed, just what I have come across on the net)-

The first two show how his was re-assembled after the swap and the rest shots of somewhat correct assy. Will need original engineering drawings or an unmolested 56 to determine exact assy and PN's.

[KULTULZ]

GOTCHA!

Core Support Insulator - Spring- 1.52in Long - 54-57 FORD - B 8130

[George/Maine]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I did see the springs were missing from mine.
I think if you have 2 or more guys just push the bumper up and down and watch the fenders. A good half the weight of car is on the upper control arms and see if the cross member moves and fenders.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by George/Maine

I did see the springs were missing from mine.

I think if you have 2 or more guys just push the bumper up and down and watch the fenders. A good half the weight of car is on the upper control arms and see if the cross member moves and fenders.

The front suspension upper control arms?

What those springs and pad under the core support do is allow a little flex so as the actual radiator will not absorb road shock. If the core support is directly bolted down, it is going to be hard on the radiator.

The OP has a CA car so most likely a good front cross-member (hopefully).

[Jwawhite]

Yes, control arm a bit confusing....the springs are missing on mine also. What I gather is a rectangular rubber bar is mounted to the bottom of the radiator bracket with one spring above and below the crossmember mount - in stock applications. K's comment about radiator damage sounds about right, but does this system mount tighten up the front sheetmetal solidly? Perhaps not, there may be some movement limited by the dedicated connection in front of radiator, i.e. lower bracket, which I installed recently. Driving the car a short distance after install appears to be a fix? Visually inspecting the front of frame closer, I note a rust line crack that follows the texture of the weld bead. (newer front xmember) I may have a failed weld at this area of the front xmember. Late April car may be over at the welders and will ask for a look over/ reweld.

[KULTULZ]

OK...

Found a service replacement kit- B-8310-S

SOURCE- http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/e...prices-pg3.htm



It seems these were also used back into the twenties so don't let that throw you off.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

....the springs are missing on mine also. What I gather is a rectangular rubber bar is mounted to the bottom of the radiator bracket with one spring above and below the crossmember mount - in stock applications.

K's comment about radiator damage sounds about right, but does this system mount tighten up the front sheetmetal solidly? Perhaps not, there may be some movement limited by the dedicated connection in front of radiator, i.e. lower bracket, which I installed recently. Driving the car a short distance after install appears to be a fix?

Visually inspecting the front of frame closer, I note a rust line crack that follows the texture of the weld bead. (newer front xmember) I may have a failed weld at this area of the front xmember. Late April car may be over at the welders and will ask for a look over/ reweld.

No, there is only one spring per side (2) of the actual mount (5019). The insulator rests on the cross-member flange (mounted atop the cross-member) between the bottom of the core support (16138) and the member flange.

This gives correct front sheet metal assy height or it is shimmed as necessary to level. This mount assy, while allowing little movement, absorbs road shock before it reaches the core support/radiator assy.

The front of the cross-member flange mount is fixed (bracket 17899 holding the front gravel shield). No movement is allowed. If the main support is not correct in assy or has a service failure, it will allow the front sheet metal to beat itself to death.

The 2nd mount shown with an insulator in your initial photo was a part of the front engine steady rest assy and can be removed as you have a 302 now.

So briefly, when the tech used a biscuit type mount on the original cross-member flange, it resulted in the front sheet metal assy being too high and not held down-adjusted correctly.

I hope that makes sense.

[George/Maine]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Yes, control arm a bit confusing....the springs are missing on mine also. What I gather is a rectangular rubber bar is mounted to the bottom of the radiator bracket with one spring above and below the crossmember mount - in stock applications. K's comment about radiator damage sounds about right, but does this system mount tighten up the front sheetmetal solidly? Perhaps not, there may be some movement limited by the dedicated connection in front of radiator, i.e. lower bracket, which I installed recently. Driving the car a short distance after install appears to be a fix? Visually inspecting the front of frame closer, I note a rust line crack that follows the texture of the weld bead. (newer front xmember) I may have a failed weld at this area of the front xmember. Late April car may be over at the welders and will ask for a look over/ reweld.

The pic# 41 you have found on ebay is what you need. Its bolted to Pic 21 in the 2 holes in xmember.
If put the 2 bolts with springs with both springs on bottom.
Those pics are no good showing factory with one spring on top and one on bottom. I see that pic on ebay $180 but that's the one you need.
I guess when your car was put back on rode it was missing.
The radiator is in rad support and the spring gives some movement but if you don,t have them you don,t need there.

[Jwawhite]

K, thank you for helping in trying to figure out the Station Wagon set up between frame and radiator support. There may be no factory info available.
If we look back at "Typical", in relation to a 51a front end, there is a spring between radiator support/frame and another spring mounted below the xmember. Also, there are shims shown inserted just above frame mount.
If my front end was up/ or down, I think a giveaway would be lines at front fender/ door and door/ body. Lines look good so I'm thinking the front sheetmetal is somewhat level--bolts nuts washers are all installed at cowl, fenders, inner fenders and core support.
Now, do I buy springs install with donut rubber washers or call it a day?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

K, thank you for helping in trying to figure out the Station Wagon set up between frame and radiator support. There may be no factory info available.

If we look back at "Typical", in relation to a 51a front end, there is a spring between radiator support/frame and another spring mounted below the xmember. Also, there are shims shown inserted just above frame mount.

Again, that ILL is 1957 Model Year Specific ONLY. And the exact info is available, only not in the SHOP MANUAL or FINAL ISSUE MPC.

The 1954 to 1956 was different in MTG although both 54/56 and 57) used the spring kit.

Now, do I buy springs install with donut rubber washers or call it a day?

That's going to be entirely up to you. If you are satisfied how she rides as is, then you are good. The actual insulator (1) is rectangular,.62" thick and 2.8" L. No round or doughnut insulators. You replaced the front bracket and that helped a lot.

This was only a learning exercise for myself. It is your car and you have to be personally happy with it.

Did you read the post info on your PATENT PLATE info?

GOOD LUCK with it and enjoy...

[Jwawhite]

K, my above was a bit of ruminating on my part, it was a learning experience for me too.
Here's a pic of my VIN plate, some yahoo sanded it. Thinking about wet decal replica with quality decal material combined with glue, heat and urethane spray. Need some help finding someone who can take a photo of theirs that I could use for my wet decal makeup. This stuff can also make replica decals for rest of car.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

.....Here's a pic of my VIN plate, some yahoo sanded it. Thinking about wet decal replica with quality decal material combined with glue, heat and urethane spray. Need some help finding someone who can take a photo of theirs that I could use for my wet decal makeup. This stuff can also make replica decals for rest of car.

Replacement data plate decal, already made. $1.50
All the '55/'57 Thunderbird restoration parts suppliers have them on-hand.
They also have 'whole car' decal sets from $20 to $50 - depending on how big the set is.
Order from the place that gives you the best shipping price... ?

Example:
https://www.larrystbird.com/product/...-very-late-57/

And several pages of decals, tags, stickers, etc. specifically for '54 to '57 passenger cars...
https://www.larrystbird.com/product-...hicles-decals/
.

[Jwawhite]

Doh!

[KULTULZ]

The car is a PARKLANE- 59C



Will you still need a PATENT PLATE photo with the decal shown?

[56sedandelivery]

This is the one off my 56

[Jwawhite]

Yes K I would be interested in a "proper" patent plate decal! I, as of yet, have been unable to find one. The T Bird decal would work and I don't think anyone else would catch it. My car is not a 100 point car, as you know the driveline has been changed out, body, interior colors are not stock and the car needs a lot of detail work. I'd say it's a 10 foot car, looks better at a distance!�� A nice photo of a 54, 55 and 56 Patent Plate--- I think they may be the same? Or just a 56 would be great. I could produce multiples and send them at cost for fellow owners, like 55 sedan delivery.....

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Yes K I would be interested in a "proper" patent plate decal! I, as of yet, have been unable to find one. The T Bird decal would work and I don't think anyone else would catch it. ...

Jwawhite, I'm not sure what there would be to 'catch', except it being a decal instead of whatever the original paint/printing(?) process was.

With as cost conscious as the Ford bean-counters were about inventory control, I believe this style data plate is not Thunderbird specific and was used on all cars from earlier in the 50's until late '57.
The '55/'57 T-Birds were actually built with a great many off-the-shelf passenger car parts and Ford wouldn't have made such a relatively insignificant item specific to only one line of vehicle.
If I'm not mistaken, the same style Data Plate was also used on the same year Mercury's.

.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Yes K I would be interested in a "proper" patent plate decal! I, as of yet, have been unable to find one. The T Bird decal would work and I don't think anyone else would catch it.

...nice photo of a 54, 55 and 56 Patent Plate--- I think they may be the same? Or just a 56 would be great.

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Jwawhite, I'm not sure what there would be to 'catch', except it being a decal instead of whatever the original paint/printing(?) process was.

With as cost conscious as the Ford bean-counters were about inventory control, I believe this style data plate is not Thunderbird specific and was used on all cars from earlier in the 50's until late '57.

If I'm not mistaken, the same style Data Plate was also used on the same year Mercury's.

(Quoted Posts Shortened)

Good Info dmsfrr!

The plate for the 55-56 are the same it appears (FORD - BIRD).

I had no idea this decal was available. It seems to me that there were businesses that specialized in refinishing the PATENT PLATE.

Here is another good reference- https://www.ctci.org/decoder1.php

Read all three pages as there appears to be some differences.

I think MERC might have had a different appearance as it was a separate division then as was LINC.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

(Quoted Posts Shortened)

Good Info dmsfrr!

The plate for the 55-56 are the same it appears (FORD - BIRD).

I had no idea this decal was available. It seems to me that there were businesses that specialized in refinishing the PATENT PLATE.

Here is another good reference- https://www.ctci.org/decoder1.php

Read all three pages as there appears to be some differences.

I think MERC might have had a different appearance as it was a separate division then as was LINC.

EDIT-

1954 MERC PATENT PLATE

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I had no idea this decal was available. It seems to me that there were businesses that specialized in refinishing the PATENT PLATE.

I thought doing this was illegal unless going through the resident MVA.

If in so doing, hopefully they require the original plate so as nothing funny can happen.

http://www.martiauto.com/tags.cfm

They even sell the special rivets.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I think MERC might have had a different appearance as it was a separate division then as was LINC.
EDIT-
1954 MERC PATENT PLATE

OK, I learned something... thanks.

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I thought doing this was illegal unless going through the resident MVA.
If in so doing, hopefully they require the original plate so as nothing funny can happen.
http://www.martiauto.com/tags.cfm
They even sell the special rivets.

Martiauto does have several proof-of-ownership procedures in place and you best have your ducks in a row when replacing a Data Plate or yes, you could end up watching your confiscated car leave on the back of a tow truck just before you get a free ride to the Graybar Hotel (jail) & a phone call to your lawyer.
Most State MVD's require a serial number inspection with an ownership sale / Title transfer, esp an out-of-state transfer.

Just replacing the damaged paint with a decal is not an issue, unless you alter the factory stamped serial number or remove / replace the Data Plate with 'something else' that doesn't match the frame numbers.
Definitely hang on to any 'proof-of' paperwork if you replace a damaged or missing data plate.

.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

IIRC, if you look closely at the Martiauto pages it may(?) be possible to have them create a 'replacement' data plate with the exterior & interior color codes to match the different/preferred colors an owner had the car restored to.

That is exactly what worries me, changing the original build data.

I have seen many restorations being auctioned whereas the seller and/or auction house is describing something that is not true.

If a person takes a rust bucket and throws thirty thousand at it and it sells for sixty thousand and it is not the vehicle being described but a resto-mod, it is fraud (IMO).

BUYER BEWARE!

[dmsfrr]

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Originally Posted by KULTULZ

That is exactly what worries me, changing the original build data.
I have seen many restorations being auctioned whereas the seller and/or auction house is describing something that is not true.
If a person takes a rust bucket and throws thirty thousand at it and it sells for sixty thousand and it is not the vehicle being described but a resto-mod, it is fraud (IMO).
BUYER BEWARE!

Sorry, I deleted that paragraph as I'm not sure how true it is, just something I thought I remembered. It's why a factory invoice can be important. Yes, "Buyer Beware".

I'd suspect most State MVD's don't care what color a car is, just that all the serial numbers match and that it isn't stolen.

"the auction house is describing something that is not true"
It happens all the time. They don't verify much besides the most basic info about a car and have teams of lawyers that write their sales/purchase disclaimers.

.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Sorry, I deleted that paragraph as I'm not sure how true it is, just something I thought I remembered. It's why a factory invoice can be important. Yes, "Buyer Beware".

I'd suspect most State MVD's don't care what color a car is, just that all the serial numbers match and that it isn't stolen.

"the auction house is describing something that is not true"

It happens all the time. They don't verify much besides the most basic info about a car and have teams of lawyers that write their sales/purchase disclaimers.

Why sorry? You brought up a very important point.

I am sure you have watched TV shows describing those that rehab and turn houses hiding defects/incorrectly remodeled, same here.

It happens all the time. They don't verify much besides the most basic info about a car and have teams of lawyers that write their sales/purchase disclaimers.

Another important entry. I never thought of that angle either...

How about buying a $$$ supposed restoration and later find out ii is not all that special?

BTW- On the 55/57 BIRD, the VIN is also stamped on the frame isn't it?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I have seen many restorations being auctioned whereas the ... auction house is describing something that is not true.

They're used car salesmen, it's their job to sell cars for as much as possible, telling buyers what they want to hear.
When an owner/seller provides vehicle information to the auction house, the auction house is only minimally liable for confirming it, if at all.

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

.....
How about buying a $$$ supposed restoration and later find out ii is not all that special?

BTW- On the 55/57 BIRD, the VIN is also stamped on the frame isn't it?

"It happens all the time" may have been a slight overstatement but it certainly happens much more often than buyer's would like.
I might not have the most objective opinion on this subject.

When researching the potential purchase of the '55 T-Bird I have I came across two different auction house listings a year apart ('06 & '07) that both said the car had been frame-on restored in the early 2000's and had it's original 292, several photos were also shown.
In '12 the same car was listed for sale by a dealer (that also does T-Bird restorations) with a similar description and additional photos of the car and engine.
But when looking at the car in person... it had not been 'restored' and did not have it's original engine. It had a semi-recent paint job & upholstery but no mechanical or electrical restoration work at all !!!
I bought it significantly below their asking price, and it was just barely worth it. In hindsight I should have waited for a better car to come along. It has been a learning experience

Yes, '55/'57 T-Birds have the vin/serial number stamped into the frame in at least 2 places.
The 'full-sized' cars should have them as well.
.

[Jwawhite]

I believe my car may have been misrepresented. Note the word "may". I brought the issues up and someone "may" be person non grata. Printed material may not have represented the vehicle correctly.

But I accept responsibility for my actions. I wanted the vehicle and now I have a new hobby that takes my mind off other things...that saying about "things that happen" was so true in my case.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

I believe my car may have been misrepresented. Note the word "may". I brought the issues up and someone "may" be person non grata. Printed material may not have represented the vehicle correctly.

But I accept responsibility for my actions. I wanted the vehicle and now I have a new hobby that takes my mind off other things...that saying about "things that happen" was so true in my case.

As long as you enjoy the car nothing else really matters. We figured out the front metal problem and with a little more work you will be good to go...